Is it the speaker? Is it the cab?

[rnolan]

Hey Dante, certainly getting closer to what you are chasing  Ah, I was sucked in seeing the grill cloth re front ports. It will be interesting to find out how it sounds with a WGS if you get around to it. 

@Harley, wow, what a beast  :whoohoo!: . But as you say a nightmare to lug. My first cabs were my dads 4 cubic feet HiFi boxes, basically a big cube.  They had Phillips 20w 12" twin cone HiFi speakers in them and a 8" square opening in the back to tune them.  I managed to blow them up pretty quickly Guit > 9v Mic preamp kit > Valve radio gram crystal (needle) input > 5w tube out > ETI 413 100w amp kit > 2 x 20w cabs (sounded awesome until the speakers blew  ).  My dad (not very happy) bought me the Plesy Rolla 12 U 50s which were 50w guitar speakers (probably 1970 ish).  They are still going strong in the Yamaha quad box I sold to MikeB.

[Harley Hexxe]

Dante,

    I think that's probably the best open back configuration for your Yamaha cabs. I can't really see any other options other than speaker rolling, and all that will really do is just change slightly with the voice of whatever speaker you choose to put in there.
   I've been curious about WGS speakers myself, and your assessment helps a lot. I may look into some of those for my Fender combos.

   Thank you for that 

[Harley Hexxe]

Richard,

    Well yeah! Loading 20 watt speakers with the preamp and a 100watt amp does make for a good sizzle in those voice coils 

     Good one!

    Four cubic foot boxes...I thought I was nuts for what I tried to do. I'll pass the baton over to you 

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, I didn't have much concept of gain structure back then  .  That rig sounded awesome until it popped a fuse (with that amp the fuse was on the speaker outs).  I had some spare 3amp fuses but when they ran out, my mate (who was drumming on my school port (and cracked it)) suggested rapping some cigarette packet foil around a blown one.  It worked until one of the speakers popped  . 

I used those cabs for many years (I didn't have anything else), later I added a piezo tweeter (with a vol pot) to each of them and used them for PA and later for my HiFi.  They were a pain to lug around, fortunately my mum had a Hillman station wagon, and in later years I had a ute.  The first "proper" amp I bought was my 2nd hand '73 Marshall 50, so I only needed one cab for it.

[Dante]

My first set of 1x12s (home made) included some Peavey drivers I took out of a PA. Those speakers rocked (I think they were Scorpions) and, if I had it all to do over again, I'd have kept those. I sold them because they were kinda big (which was actually a good thing) and heavy. I bought my 2 Thiele cabs thinking that would be better - it was not better, just different. o well....I digress

Been playing the open/closed cabs together for a couple days. Neck humbucker sounds a bit boomier than I'd like, but I'm at very low volume right now. If it sounds like this at practice tonight, I may be making a new back with an oval hole to see how that works (I have more plywood ;) Otherwise, I'm really happy with how it's projecting now.

I thought the open speaker was louder, but it's really whichever speaker is on top that is louder....it just seems to be easier to hear it now without being right in front of it....which is good. I am still considering doing the other cab when I figure out what I like, and the WGS speaker is still on the table too.

[Harley Hexxe]

Dante,

    Before you go cutting up more plywood, just try moving the cabs away from the wall a little bit. That might do the trick for you.
    I read something when shopping for studio monitors the other day about open and ported back cabinets, and that is the closer they are to a wall, the more distortion they produce. They stated that this applies to any cabinet. So yours might be on the edge there.

    Yes, you will hear the speaker that's on top before you hear the one under it. It's the same thing with a stacked Marshall too. You hear the 4x12 on top and wonder if you forgot to plug in the bottom cab. Until your kneecaps grow ears and yell at you; "Hey! Turn that sh*t down!"  ::)

[Harley Hexxe]

Richard,

   Oh yeah! One big 4x12 cab is enough for a Marshall head, but back then we didn't know that either. We all wanted more speakers and more amps, without thinking we need to buy a moving van to haul all that stuff around. Oh to be a teenager again...nah. Forget about it.

   You're bringing back a lot of memories for me now. I remember Hillman wagons. There were plenty of those in Greece when I was growing up there, and I've seen my fair share of Utes too. I remember cutting the roof and back windows out of a 1986 Blazer with a cutoff wheel and hacksaw, fabricating a back wall with a window cutout, and adding a roll bar behind it, then dropping an early 70's Chevy 350 engine with a turbo 400 tranny in it. Then we added a lift kit and big knobby wheels on it and did the ugliest rattle can paint job on it you ever saw. That was my take on building a Ute. Talk about living dangerously! That thing took turns like a motorboat. I ended up selling it to bunch of guys at a fraternity of our local college. It's nice to know I'm not the only loose nut behind the wheel.

[Dante]

Band Camp (aka practice) went well, the cabs sounded no different, but better. I don't know a better way to say that, they sounded the same from the front, and bigger overall.

So, I made a prototype back panel and tried it today, I think I'm good. I'm going to sand it down, add some primer and paint. It sounds good

[rnolan]

Cool 

[Harley Hexxe]

Dante,

    That makes perfect sense. The speakers only have one voice, so they will sound the same. You're just getting more of that voice from another direction which makes it sound bigger, but that was the goal of this experiment, wasn't it?

    How is this working out for your drummer now?

    I think I'm going to look into some of these WGS speakers for some of my Fender amps. I'm not sure which ones I need, and one amp in particular is going to be a bit tricky to shop for speakers for, my Vibrolux. Finding 10" speakers that will give that amp a bit more range is difficult because there isn't much out there to choose from. That's one of my favorite amps to use in a single amp application, but like you experienced, drummers complain they can't hear it. I do have another option, but I'm hesitant about going for it. I have an old Twin Reverb shell that has been sitting around in my basement for a few decades. It's stripped of all the tolex, and I had a friend of mine paint some native American art on it, I suppose I could shellac over that and modify it to fit my Vibrolux in it and add a couple of 12" speakers and that would probably give me more of what I need in a live setting. I just hate to mess with something that already has a great tone.

[Dante]

Dante,

    That makes perfect sense. The speakers only have one voice, so they will sound the same. You're just getting more of that voice from another direction which makes it sound bigger, but that was the goal of this experiment, wasn't it?

    How is this working out for your drummer now?

    I think I'm going to look into some of these WGS speakers for some of my Fender amps. I'm not sure which ones I need, and one amp in particular is going to be a bit tricky to shop for speakers for, my Vibrolux. Finding 10" speakers that will give that amp a bit more range is difficult because there isn't much out there to choose from. That's one of my favorite amps to use in a single amp application, but like you experienced, drummers complain they can't hear it. I do have another option, but I'm hesitant about going for it. I have an old Twin Reverb shell that has been sitting around in my basement for a few decades. It's stripped of all the tolex, and I had a friend of mine paint some native American art on it, I suppose I could shellac over that and modify it to fit my Vibrolux in it and add a couple of 12" speakers and that would pro

YUP, that was the goal, bigger sound. Success!! Drummer is happy, I'm happy, everyone is happy except the neighbors

WGS makes a bunch of 10" speakers, go check them out. I really want another G12C/S, but I also want to try the Invader....decisions

[Harley Hexxe]

Dante,

   After I typed that reply, I went there and looked at what they have, and there are two that have piqued my curiosity.

   The G10C/S and the ET10, (75 watts, and 65 watts respectively). These would probably give me more headroom, but I'd have to decide which tonal character I would prefer more, and if I want to use it with, or without any pedals in front other than just a boost.

[Dante]

Get both, that would be a good mix. One is a tad bright (ET10), the other is a great compliment. I was looking at the ET65s too, but they were not as soft on the high end, which is what I was after. You may want that with the Fender, and again, the two together would probably work very well.

[Harley Hexxe]

  I don't know. The Fenders can be too bright IMHO, and usually, I always use them with the bright switch off. It's just too crisp for me with the Vibrolux and the Twins. I haven't really done much with the 400PS, so I'm not sure what that will sound like. I have to get that one completely serviced and re-tubed. That's going to cost a chunk of cash, and there's really no where anyone can use an amp like that anymore. That's why it's sitting in the basement with the cover on.

   The Vibrolux on the other hand is a great amp for studio and stages, and it has a super-great voice. With that as a main guitar amp, and flanked on either side with a Twin that has stereo effects, makes for an awesome guitar rig. Twins are so versatile, they can do anything. I think the G10C/S could be the one, and it can handle all the amp's distortion the Vibrolux can throw at it. I'm pretty sure the 10s I have in it now are pretty well spanked.

[Dante]

Tried out the cabs yesterday with my MP-1 Classic/MT-200 rig and it sounded HUGE...mission accomplished. I have some tolex to cover my new back panel(s), just waiting on some spray adhesive.