Behringer FCB1010 - Analogue Switching for Rockmaster Preamp

[rnolan]

Well that explains why it was being strange.  I was working from the perspective that Sw3 and 4 only operated on their respective jacks.

[rabidgerry]

You're right, they do, but I think only with the UNO firmware you are actually able to manipulate the other.

Now when I first started messing with this I didn't really pay much attention to how I had the extra switching capability set, but then when I started to think perhaps I need it set to have one switch turn the other off whilst turning one on it dawned on me that I actually need each to not affect the other at all!  So lets see if this works when I put it into practice.

This should allow for the following combos:

SW1 ON SW2 ON - Clean
SW1 off SW2 ON - Ultra
SW1 off SW2 off - Crunch
SW1 ON SW2 off - Clean

[rnolan]

Like I said before, and now you've got each Sw just doing what it's supposed to, when Sw1 is on it makes no difference what Sw2 is set to.  In the end though, wouldn't it be easier just to program the Sw settings you want into a patch for each sound?

[rabidgerry]

Well that kind of patch setup doesn't suit me so I would not do this unless I was desperate.  I'm only needing to go between Crunch and Ultra right now anyway so clean was simply to have all options available to me at the tap of a foot.  Which they are if I use a Behringer AB200.

Anyways just an update.  So it doesn't matter about the setup of the SW1 and SW2 the way I was expecting, it still didn't work.  As soon as a plug a jack from the Y cable into SW1 and a jack into SW2 I get clean and Ultra only.  If I take out SW1 jack and leave only SW2 with a jack I get ultra and crunch switchable via SW2 assigned pedal 4.  Really don't understand why this is but at least I can access the two channels that I actually need.

[rabidgerry]

Does this help shed any light on things?  I managed to get the way the FCB1010 relay switches work from the FCB1010 user group.  Just wondering if there might be something in this document that be the answer to this inability to access all three channels.

Yes yes I haven't given up 

[rnolan]

Hey RG, interesting about the stereo cable into Sw 1.  But I thought you had this solved by making sure the 2 switches just do one thing (rather than affect each other or be affected by anything else in any way).  All my initial suggestions for how it works are correct as long as each Sw just does one thing i.e. make or break the tip connection on a mono lead.  This should replicate what the Peavey foot switch does when using a TRS > TS/TS insert lead and the 2 FCB switches will act the same as the 2 Peavey foot switch switches, giving you the same functionality. 

Can the FCB Sw1 stereo plug help?  I don't think so for what you want as Sw1 would need to be able to toggle all 4 states, well you actually need 3 states as when Sw1 is On you get Clean regardless of Sw2's setting.  When Sw1 is off, then (and only then), Sw2 toggles between Crunch and Ultra. 

However, it does seem possible that a TRS <> TRS lead could be used into FCB Sw1 but you would need to program 2 of the FCB buttons, one to toggle the tip (relay 1) and one to toggle the ring (relay 2)

[rabidgerry]

No mate, I had not cracked this.  I was getting use via one end of a Y cable plugged into SW2 and able to cycle between crunch and ultra which for me at this time is fine.  I still had not been able to get clean.  I did try a TRS cable also but I didn't realise the other pedal would still work.  So basically I was trying to use one pedal to cycle through whilst using the TRS cable.  I never thought that both pedals would still work, for that I thought I would need both SW inputs with a cable a jack inserted.

And yes I have each switch assigned to pedal 3 and 4 and they are programmed to not affect one another.  So basically each pedal only control each switch.

Well I'm going to try the regular TRS to TRS cable today and just use SW1 input.  According to the FCB group guy who offered this info to me, he says according to that diagram for the FCB switches, plugging into one SW input should work.  My argument with this was but only one pedal will work.  But apparently a stereo cable into SW1 means both relays still work and can be switched using the two pedals I have assigned to control them.  We shall see.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, the FCB group guy is right, a TRS <> TRS should work but "only" if plugged into Sw1 (Sw2 isn't wired the same).  The ring of Sw1 is connected to the tip of Sw2 "if" nothing is plugged into Sw2 "and" a TRS plug is in Sw1.  But you still have to assign a FCB button to each Sw (relay) as each button can only toggle on/off.  This is the same as using a TRS > TS/RS (insert) cable and plugging each mono plug into either Sw1 or Sw2. 

A "Y" cable and an"insert lead" are not the same thing (sorry if you know this already).  A Y cable joins 3 mono jacks together so you can split one signal into 2 (or vis versa): 

T₁____T₂ 
     | 
     ^-----T₃ 
S₁____S₂ 
     | 
     ^-----S₃

An insert lead connects the tip of a stereo plug to the tip of a mono plug and the ring to the tip of another mono plug 

T₁______T₂ 
R₁______T₃ 
S₁______S₂ 
       | 
        ^------S₃ 

If you look at the FCB diagram (doc) you attached, the Ring of Sw1 either connects no where (mono plug) or connects to Sw2 Tip (stereo plug).  However, if you have a plug in Sw2 it breaks the connection between Sw1 ring and Sw2 Tip. 

So a TRS <> TRS cable plugged into Sw1 (and nothing in Sw2) AND 2 buttons assigned, one to Sw1 (relay1) and one to Sw2 (relay2) you can use just the one stereo cable and the 2 buttons should work the same way the Peavey FS works. 

If you use an insert lead TRS <> TS/RS and plug each mono plug into either Sw1 and Sw2, the mono plug connected to the TRS Tip will toggle clean on/off and the mono plug connected to the TRS Ring will toggle Ultra/Crunch.  However, if Clean is toggled On, Ultra/Crunch is bypassed so that the Ultra/Crunch Sw will do nothing until Clean is turned Off. 

Now you could get cleaver/complicated (warning this may do your head in LoL) and assign 3 FCB buttons to the FCB Sws' (relays) so each button will select a specific voice rather than toggle.  So say you use Btn3 = Clean, Btn4 = Crunch and Btn5 = Ultra.  To make this work you need to have each Btn do a couple of things when selected (turned on) including turning On/Off the other Btns: 

Btn3 On = Sw1 On (will select clean regardless of Sw2 setting) 
Btn4 On = Sw1 Off and Sw2 Off (will select Crunch) 
Btn5 On = Sw1 Off and Sw2 On (will select Ultra)   

So to do this (I'm assuming this is possible with you UNO SW): 
Btn3 On - assign to Sw1 normal On/Off  When selected, Btn4 & 5's On/Off state shouldn't matter, it will select Clean.  However, if you turn Btn3 Off, then Btn4 & 5 state does matter as what they (i.e. Sw2) are currently set to will be selected by turning Btn3 Off.  So if you make Btn3 On also turn Btn4 Off and Btn 5 ON, turning Off Btn3 should revert to Ultra (because Btn4 Off = Sw2 On (using reverse ON/Off for Btn4)). If you prefer to revert to Crunch then make Btn3 On turn Btn4 On and Btn5 Off.
Btn4 On - assign to Sw2 Off (use the reverse Btn On/Off feature maybe to do this?) and ALSO turn Btn3 Off  and you may need to/should also turn Btn5 Off
Btn5 On - assign to Sw2 On and Also turn Btn3 Off and Btn4 Off 
Anyway after writing this I suspect this may possibly make your head spin. 

But hope it helps and you get it to work.  :wave:

[rabidgerry]

Hey RG, the FCB group guy is right, a TRS <> TRS should work but "only" if plugged into Sw1 (Sw2 isn't wired the same).  The ring of Sw1 is connected to the tip of Sw2 "if" nothing is plugged into Sw2 "and" a TRS plug is in Sw1.  But you still have to assign a FCB button to each Sw (relay) as each button can only toggle on/off.  This is the same as using a TRS > TS/RS (insert) cable and plugging each mono plug into either Sw1 or Sw2. 

A "Y" cable and an"insert lead" are not the same thing (sorry if you know this already).  A Y cable joins 3 mono jacks together so you can split one signal into 2 (or vis versa): 

T₁____T₂ 
     | 
     ^-----T₃ 
S₁____S₂ 
     | 
     ^-----S₃

An insert lead connects the tip of a stereo plug to the tip of a mono plug and the ring to the tip of another mono plug 

T₁______T₂ 
R₁______T₃ 
S₁______S₂ 
       | 
        ^------S₃ 

If you look at the FCB diagram (doc) you attached, the Ring of Sw1 either connects no where (mono plug) or connects to Sw2 Tip (stereo plug).  However, if you have a plug in Sw2 it breaks the connection between Sw1 ring and Sw2 Tip. 

So a TRS <> TRS cable plugged into Sw1 (and nothing in Sw2) AND 2 buttons assigned, one to Sw1 (relay1) and one to Sw2 (relay2) you can use just the one stereo cable and the 2 buttons should work the same way the Peavey FS works. 

If you use an insert lead TRS <> TS/RS and plug each mono plug into either Sw1 and Sw2, the mono plug connected to the TRS Tip will toggle clean on/off and the mono plug connected to the TRS Ring will toggle Ultra/Crunch.  However, if Clean is toggled On, Ultra/Crunch is bypassed so that the Ultra/Crunch Sw will do nothing until Clean is turned Off. 

Now you could get cleaver/complicated (warning this may do your head in LoL) and assign 3 FCB buttons to the FCB Sws' (relays) so each button will select a specific voice rather than toggle.  So say you use Btn3 = Clean, Btn4 = Crunch and Btn5 = Ultra.  To make this work you need to have each Btn do a couple of things when selected (turned on) including turning On/Off the other Btns: 

Btn3 On = Sw1 On (will select clean regardless of Sw2 setting) 
Btn4 On = Sw1 Off and Sw2 Off (will select Crunch) 
Btn5 On = Sw1 Off and Sw2 On (will select Ultra)   

So to do this (I'm assuming this is possible with you UNO SW): 
Btn3 On - assign to Sw1 normal On/Off  When selected, Btn4 & 5's On/Off state shouldn't matter, it will select Clean.  However, if you turn Btn3 Off, then Btn4 & 5 state does matter as what they (i.e. Sw2) are currently set to will be selected by turning Btn3 Off.  So if you make Btn3 On also turn Btn4 Off and Btn 5 ON, turning Off Btn3 should revert to Ultra (because Btn4 Off = Sw2 On (using reverse ON/Off for Btn4)). If you prefer to revert to Crunch then make Btn3 On turn Btn4 On and Btn5 Off.
Btn4 On - assign to Sw2 Off (use the reverse Btn On/Off feature maybe to do this?) and ALSO turn Btn3 Off  and you may need to/should also turn Btn5 Off
Btn5 On - assign to Sw2 On and Also turn Btn3 Off and Btn4 Off 
Anyway after writing this I suspect this may possibly make your head spin. 

But hope it helps and you get it to work.  :wave:

Well I got to the practice room yesterday and the first thing I did was take a TRS - TRS cable I have for using the rockmaster at home (have a footswitch that does the same job as a peavey footswitch at home you see) and plug it into SW1 of the FCB1010.

I then ran the TRS cable to the peavey rockmaster preamp.  I pressed pedal 3 and got clean!  I pressed it again and got ultra.  I then pressed pedal 4 and was able to switch between ultra and crunch! 

IT HAS FINALLY BEEN CRACKED!

I believe I was close to this in the past however I never plugged the TRS cable into SW1.  I only tried SW2, reason being I didn't think it would matter as I figured they would be both the same.  Anyways it works!  It made my day actually.  But I ran into a few problems later as I was trying to go between patches for different songs and having the patch pedals change the channel back to clean on me.

So I knew what this was but as I didn't have the laptop with me I didn't think I would be able to rectify the problem there on the day.  But come the final run of the songs I asked the guys to wait and took a bit of time to follow the uno manual that I was able to download on the fly.  Selected the pre-set I wanted to edit, held down pedal for 2.5secs entered into the editing mode, tapped pedal 1 which popped a '0' in the display.  Then pressed up up to confirm that was what I wanted to edit.  Then pressed pedal 1 again and this moved the value in the display to '1'.  Then pressed up again to confirm.  Held down for 2.5secs and exited the edit mode.

Hey presto!  The patch then would always begin with both SW1 and SW2 leds illuminated meaning I was on Ultra channel.  I then did this for the rest of the patches (pedal 6-10 as I have 1-5 as stompboxes) because I would generally start on Ultra and then if I need to I can switch to Crunch or Clean.

So the saga is over!  I believe I'm exploiting a far more functionality now of the FCB1010 and I love the feeling I'm fully in control of everything I need at the moment.  I can't recommend the pedal enough with that custom Uno firmware.  It really is fantastic.

As for your extra suggestions Richard.  I believe that actually would be possible.  You might even say they was I'm switching the channels is programmed quite basic.  But you could actually get really clever depending on your needs.  For me though I have pedal 5 programmed for a volume boost/detune for solos so that pedal is already required for another job.  That was also part of the reason I liked the idea of using 3 and 4 for the peavey channels as they were not being used.  Pedals 1 and 2 are programmed to turn other effect modules on/off depending on the patch.

Thanks for all the help with this, it's much appreciated my man  .  Hopefully someone else on the internet find it useful at some point in time.

[MarshallJMP]

Ah finally your quest is done 

[rabidgerry]

yes finally 

Just in the nick of time too!  As I'm beginning rehearsing a song with a cleanish intro next week.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, fantastic  :whoohoo!: .