Koch ATR-4502 Power Amp

[rabidgerry]

I think you guys have missed the point of my post and forgotten what my concern was.  Volume!

As for tube  sound, perhaps its better to look at this like not so much sounding like a tube amp, but sounding better or closer to a tube amp than ordinary solid state.  I don't care about getting authentic exact tube replication but I do want to enjoy an amp that might sound better than other s.s choices at 5kg.

I don't have this Koch amp to compare yet, but the difference between an ordinary S.S amp and Roctron Velocity is night and day. There is a more dynamic feel and that's great.  A glassy element to the sound.

As for those name guitarists I mentioned, they were referenced on the basis that they have switched from 1000watts Matrix s.s amp to this Koch 90watt amp.  So those guys would not have done so if there was not enough power.  Therefore the Koch must do something better or more efficiently to not need the same amount of watts like the guy said.  And, those guys are on a higher level than me, they'd not use the amp if they didn't like the sound over the other either.

[MarshallJMP]

Well and I speak from personal experience, a 90W SS amp isn't loud and you may disappointed with it when it comes to volume. Now on the other hand for live use you don't need a lot of watts when you're mic'd up.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, I know where you are coming from, The Carvin DCM200L is much lighter at 1.8 kgs (which fits your main requirement ie less weight), 100 w per side (4 ohm) and sounds great with a tube preamp, I've been using it for quite a while now (with both MB1 and MP2) and am very happy with it (and that's compared to my B200s and my Carvin (all tube) TS100).  It's plenty loud even into a 16 ohm load (so less watts, albeit more sensitive speakers as 16 ohm speakers always are), I've never needed to run it full chat even with a real (loud) drum kit to get over.  I'm not saying the Koch (unfortunate name LoL) isn't good, I haven't tried one, try it and then you can tell me.

I do however agree with MJMPs remarks re tube amps, but this is not helpful for you as you need to save weight (didn't mean to get up your nose  :wave: ).  The Carvin TS100 is heaps lighter than the ADA T100s (about half IIRC) but it's still a 2 RU brick (it has 3 transformers (1 power, and 2 output).

[MarshallJMP]

I know that it's not easy to find a light, loud and good sounding amp. At some point you always have to sacrifice something.

[Kim]

I know that it's not easy to find a light, loud and good sounding amp. At some point you always have to sacrifice something.

There's a saying I know of:

The 3 important things about building a race car are Fast, Reliable, and Cheap.  You can only have TWO of those things.

So applying that logic to amplifiers:
Loud, Light, Cheap.  You only get two.  Lol

[Systematic Chaos]

I think you guys have missed the point of my post and forgotten what my concern was.  Volume!

As for tube  sound, perhaps its better to look at this like not so much sounding like a tube amp, but sounding better or closer to a tube amp than ordinary solid state.  I don't care about getting authentic exact tube replication but I do want to enjoy an amp that might sound better than other s.s choices at 5kg.

I don't have this Koch amp to compare yet, but the difference between an ordinary S.S amp and Roctron Velocity is night and day. There is a more dynamic feel and that's great.  A glassy element to the sound.

As for those name guitarists I mentioned, they were referenced on the basis that they have switched from 1000watts Matrix s.s amp to this Koch 90watt amp.  So those guys would not have done so if there was not enough power.  Therefore the Koch must do something better or more efficiently to not need the same amount of watts like the guy said.  And, those guys are on a higher level than me, they'd not use the amp if they didn't like the sound over the other either.

Hey Gerry, I guess you answered some of your questions with this. I read up some on the Koch and there´s pretty good reviews on Rig-Talk, Sevenstring.org, FAS-Forum etc, also with regard to volume, sound and feel.
Everything now is purely hypothetical until you check one out for yourself.
I don't know (and I don't wanna know  8) ) how much of a discount they're offering. Wok something out with a money back option in case it doesn't float your boat and have them send you one. Or take your GF on a nice weekend trip to the Netherlands and check the amp out at Koch directly.

...and since I always have a pocket full of them, some more of my 2cents:
I presently run (main rig) an AxeFX II with an old Rocktron Velocity 150 through an early 90s Boogie 2x12 Vertical Halfback and I have zero volume issues with loud drummer or tube stacks (and I don't get past 2 o'clock on the 150s Vol knobs)

Also, one of the best comments in this thread:

[...] Now on the other hand for live use you don't need a lot of watts when you're mic'd up.

[rabidgerry]

Well as I said before, I had 150watt Crate Powerblock and it wasn't loud enough to rehearse so I used to use two of them.

For me and 9/10 live situations I still need an amp that is loud, so the notion of using a low volume amp because I will have monitors is not realistic.  I still rely heavily on what is behind me because I am not surrounded by monitors like how I was the other night playing Sinn fest in Malta.

I need a loud amp and one with excess just in case.

@SC yeah I will have to ask the guy can I send back if the amp is not powerful enough for me.  Those guy's in Overkill and Slayer surely wouldn't use an amp that was not capable of suitable volume.  We shall have to see.

[rabidgerry]

Excellent, Koch are arranging a testing for the amp.  Apparently a number of Matrix amp users (1000watt class D) have switched to the ATR-4502 so I have faith on this claim.

Really looking forward to trying the amp out.

The gig last week I played using my little Harley Benton Class D 400watt, sounded quite good.  Perhaps a little Bright but that can be sorted out.  The Velocity is still better, but I wasn't let down by the HB Amp at all.  Very tight.

Lets see what this Koch can do!!

[rnolan]

 :whoohoo!: , looking forward to your take on it !!  After watching your Malta thing, you definitely need decent volume on stage (but I already knew that  ).  How much are these Koch do das ?

[rabidgerry]

I can't wait either.

The price is 649 euro  (before VAT).  Koch stuff is pretty high end as SC has already mentioned.  Their stuff is very, very expensive.

I'm able to get the amp cheaper obviously under the endorsement deal.  If it all works out it will actually be the most expensive piece of equipment I will own.

[rnolan]

Well hopefully the amp is killer and you are a good ambassador for them :headbanger: .  I'm sure I'm not the only one watching this post with baited breath.. your opinion I'm very interested in     Ok so that's a bit over $1k AUD, not a cheap amp, tell them if they keep it under $1k AUD Australians can buy it without GST (VAT, tax whatever) if they care  .

[rabidgerry]

Fingers crossed man!

I may also have a solution to the VAT, but once step at a time 

They VAT drives up the price to a point where I am not willing to pay so more fingers crossed there.

I 'm encouraged that other amp users have switched the Koch amp, but we shall have to see eh!  I'd love to be an ambassador for them.  They've certainly been very helpful and they have a long list of higher profile names on their artist page already so it's good of them to have given me the time of day.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, your influence may be wider than you think  , we are all looking for the best power amp to go with our MPx etc and, well apart from MJMP (he's got roadies LoL), shrinking our rigs.  I would say though, if you can, try a Carvin DCM200L, less than half the weight, and I can attest to their performance.

[rabidgerry]

I already have an light powerful clean amp man.  And I'm happy with that amp (Harley Benton GPA400), It has useful bass and treble controls and the Rocktron Velocity (awesome amp btw) which has something similar only a reactance circuit which behaves in a very dynamic "tube" like way (Kim can attest to the Velocity's performance).  However the HB is very light (class D 5kg) and the Velocity is very heavy (9.9kg).  And sure I have best of both worlds but perhaps I can get something with a more "tubey" sound and feel but at the same kind of weight as the Harley Benton.

The Harley Benton is what I took to Malta with me as the Velocity is too heavy.

[rnolan]

Hey RG, I hope you can get a good deal worked out and the Koch does exactly what you want  , seems from all reports it should be on the money sound and power wise.
Mike has repaired his B200s so I get my TS100 back  :whoohoo!: , the 2RU brick LoL.  Next rehearsal I'll give it a go (again) which will be a good comparison to the DCM200L while it's fresh in my mind as it's in my live rack (also great on bass with MB1 BTW).