New EQ Day (for the PA)

[rnolan]

For those interested in small PA stuff...
So in my 6RU PA rack I currently have SPX90, a 1RU DBX dual 15 band (215s EQ) I use for foldback sends, a 2 RU Phonic PEQ 3600 dual 31 band (to feed front powered boxes), and a Carvin DCM2004L (4 x 300w) power amp (wedges etc.).

I was getting bugged by hiss in the Carvin 15"/tweeter powered front speakers.  I thought maybe the caps in the internal amps in these PA boxes were needing attention.  Then one day (recently), I bypassed the Phonic EQ and hiss went away.  So the Phonic EQ is the problem.  It was given to me so I used it, I don't think I would ever buy a Phonic EQ...They also don't "sound" that great (note: different brand rack EQs are as variable in sound as tubes, I've used many different 31 band EQs over the years, some sound excellent, some good, some shit, some whatever).  The Phonic is definitely a "Whatever"... and it's old and heavy.

So today I picked up 2 more DBX215s (1RU) and I'll ditch the Phonic and gain another 2 EQ sends (for side fill - 2 x JBL eons 15"/tweeter).

The DBX 215s are 2/3 octave (dual 15 band), which is fine for small PA setup like this.  I won't miss the dual 31 band on FOH.  The DBX 215s sound good (@$340 AUD each), although I've had to super glue the Input Gain knobs on as they tend to pop off in transit.

So tonight I'll swap them into the PA rack (and maybe take a pic for Dante).  We have a gig on Sunday arvo, good test run...

For those of you who like to imagine PA set ups in your head (as I seem to ), here's the PA setup:
Gear
Behringer QX2442 mixer, PA rack: SPX90, 3 x DBX 215s EQ (dual 15 band), Carvin DCM2004L power amp (4 x 300w); 2 x Carvin PM15A 350w powered cabs (FOH on stands), 2 x Behringer 175w monitor wedges (12"/tweeter), EV 3 way TL (15", horn, tweeter/ 6 c') 250w (old but great speakers). And I also got given 2 x JBL eon 15/tweeter powered speakers (the original grey(ish) ones).

Inputs: 4 x vocal (3 x SM58A beta, 1 x SM58 (for the drummer)), Triton LE keyboard (L/R line), Roland V Drums L/R line), MP-2 cab sim outs L/R (I'll set to mic lv), Messa/Boogie SubwayWD800 DI out, set to mic lv.

So I set up a back line stage R to L, Guitar (MP-2 > 2 x 12" cab), EV 3w TL, kit Rolland Vdrums, JBL 15"/tweeter powered (drummers monitor box), Bass rig (subway800, 2 x P112 cabs).

My approach here is give the electric drums and keyboard their own amp(s) (as it were) like guitar and bass have.  So I run the EV and Drum monitor as a stereo PA on the back line either side of the drummer (using subgroups 1 & 2 on the desk), fundamentally for the drums and keys.  Then the FOH just has to do vocals (with a little drums and keys added but not to push the FOH too hard (kit) and mush up the midrange (keys)).

This approach worked well at our previous gig (first time I'd tried it).  The difference for this Sundays gig (15 sept 04) is I'll have more EQ (new DBX315s) so I can run the backline PA in stereo. And I'll use 2 subgroups to feed it rather than a mono monitor send (as I did last time).

Another driver for running the back line PA in stereo is, at the last gig the bass player complained she could hear the guitar (I'm stage R she's stage L).  So I'll take the cab sim outs from my MP-2 and her DI out into the desk and pan a bit either side of the drums.  Though I need to be careful as it will affect the front balance (as both her and my amps are projecting forward).

Vocals are all through the FOH, and fold back via the 2 Behringer passive wedges.  I've toyed (in my head) with the idea of putting a "little" vox in the backline PA, then feedback....and balance...

For a bigger venue I'll use the JBL eons' as side fill and then maybe mix it differently.

[Harley Hexxe]

Richard,

   So, it would be safe to say you're not hooked on Phonics?

   (Oh that was bad    )

[Dante]

Richard,

  So, it would be safe to say you're not hooked on Phonics?

  (Oh that was bad    )

Forum FOUL! we need a referee banana throwing a flag

[rnolan]

LoL, well to be fair, I don't hate the Phonic and it was free, can't complain about that.  But noisy in another thing all together...

Here's a pic

[Harley Hexxe]

Richard,

  So, it would be safe to say you're not hooked on Phonics?

  (Oh that was bad    )

Forum FOUL! we need a referee banana throwing a flag

  

[Harley Hexxe]

LoL, well to be fair, I don't hate the Phonic and it was free, can't complain about that.  But noisy in another thing all together...

Here's a pic

That's why it was free

[rnolan]

Well not entirely, he gave me lots of great stuff as he didn't want it any more, and the rest works fine:
TC MOne XL
Focusrite Platinum Penta (stereo compressor)
TLA Ivory 4 ch tube preamp
 2 xRode NT5s (and a bunch of other quite good mics)
3 mic stands
And the Phonic dual 32 band EQ

All for free (to a good home), i.e. mine .

[rnolan]

Ok well that went well, just got home and loaded in (something I don't miss about playing live).

The new EQs were fine, no hiss from the PA .  And dual band 15 (2/3 oct) was plenty.

Here's an interesting thing, most rooms (in my experience) need to have 160hz pulled way down (as I had to today).

So I changed tack a little with the back line PA sends.  I was going to use a subgroup pair to drive it but changed my mind and used the 2 monitor sends.  And I used a single sub group to feed the front wedges (vocals only).  All 3 had their own 15 band EQ.  And this works well as you can turn off the EQ input level knobs to shut them up in breaks etc.

I've found running a back line PA like this (basically giving the Electric drums and Keys their own stereo amp (as it were)) sounds more holistic and takes the pressure off the front (Carvin 15A powered) so the front mostly does vocals.  I put a little keys and kit into the front but not much.  I position the back PA cabs behind and either side of the drummer in line with guitar and bass cabs.  Bring the drummer forward a little (so he can hear himself better), and it's much more like you have a real kit (but you can turn it down LOL).

If you are doing a bigger show with a big PA etc. then sure just sort it out with foldback (and generally every one gets their own monitor send/mix).  But for small to medium shows with just 2 x 15/horn powered speakers on stands (pretty typical) for FOH, doing it this way (back line PA) works really well.

I also ran my MP-2 cab sim outs into 2 channels and also a bass DI into another.  So I sent a bit of MP-2 to the bass players side (which she wanted)  I also tried a little bass over my side, but turned it off.

So gig went well, everything worked exactly as I'd envisaged (in my minds eye).