Hi,
I am starting playing guitar again after a long stop. I still have my old ADA-MP1 3TM.
I have an issue. When I change the preset the volume level has a very high increase and then it drop to the nominal level I have choosen. It seems that this happens when it switches between voicings and it's even more present when switching from SS to tubes.
Any idea?
Does it happen when the presets use the same voice? or only when the new preset has a different voice?
What happens when you switch from a tube patch to SS?
It may be worth putting in new tubes just to rule it/them out.
Looks like it happens when switching from SS to tube clean or to tube dist to tube clean...
Well this is a bit of a known problem with the mp-1, it has to do with the slow vactrols in the mp-1. It's most prominent when you go from quite different OD levels.
So can it be fixed? e.g. change the vactrols??
Can it be fixed? This volume fluctuation is quite annoying. Can't imagine to do a gig with that happening....
Problem is that vactrol are quite slow devices, try to keep the volumes not too far of each other.
Quote from: MarshallJMP on February 28, 2025, 01:09:26 PMProblem is that vactrol are quite slow devices, try to keep the volumes not too far of each other.
The volume is quite the same between the preset. it's just a switch between voicing. What is strange is the volume really increases higher that the nominal volume and higher than the previous preset. It's a peak volume that even saturate my g-major, I can see it on the input signal graph and then it decreases to the nominal volume.
I'll do a video if I can.
It seems like a common issue.....my modeler does it too (did not expect that), if I switch between hi gain patches.
I've just learned to not be holding or sustaining a chord when switching patches to avoid that quick volume swell
It takes a little practice, but it hardly happens to me anymore, just don't hold that button, hit it quck, without a tone playing and it'll be like second nature
Hey Dante, I think it's a bit more than the normal stuff. With MP-1 I never ever had an issue. With Mp-2 I get a big pop sometimes when I go to clean (with it's compressor) and I have to do the change dance you brought up, i.e. make sure I stop playing then press the button, which as you say, you work out and get better at.
I think this is different. Ok it's a 3TM changing between voicing.
@Wheeljack1976, does it happen if the voice is the same ?? or only when the voice of the next patch is different??
When you change a patch on a ADA preamp a bunch of stuff happens (obviously dependant on the patch settings). Things in the circuit change, some are just switched (connect here instead of there etc.) and some are resistance changes controlled by VACTROLs' (i.e. change the resistance so value goes up/down etc. different light intensities (LED) are mirrored by the receiver in the VACTROL which then changes the resistance value (hence are a bit slower than other things)).
Voiceings (SS, Clean Tube, Dist Tube) change a bunch of stuff in the circuit (hence my question above). Maybe there is an issue in the voicing changes?
Forgive me, I haven't had an MP-1 for a long time....since I got my MP2 in '95 I think.
The MP2 does it - for sure....especially with the higher gains
This is becoming an interesting topic for me since I haven't experienced that with my 3TM MP-1.
I've never used the 3TM in the context of changing patches within a song, instead I switch from the stock MP-1 to the 3TM when I want a searing lead tone that the stock MP-1 can't do. The only patch changes occur in between songs as the 3TM is too much for the rhythm section of a song, (unless you are into the death metal kind of thing).
The most surprising thing I'm reading here is that your modeler does this too Dante. I've never experienced anything like that with my ADA gear or any of the Cyber amps. I'm wondering now if all modelers are like this?
Quote from: rnolan on March 03, 2025, 04:50:52 AMHey Dante, I think it's a bit more than the normal stuff. With MP-1 I never ever had an issue. With Mp-2 I get a big pop sometimes when I go to clean (with it's compressor) and I have to do the change dance you brought up, i.e. make sure I stop playing then press the button, which as you say, you work out and get better at.
I think this is different. Ok it's a 3TM changing between voicing.
@Wheeljack1976, does it happen if the voice is the same ?? or only when the voice of the next patch is different??
When you change a patch on a ADA preamp a bunch of stuff happens (obviously dependant on the patch settings). Things in the circuit change, some are just switched (connect here instead of there etc.) and some are resistance changes controlled by VACTROLs' (i.e. change the resistance so value goes up/down etc. different light intensities (LED) are mirrored by the receiver in the VACTROL which then changes the resistance value (hence are a bit slower than other things)).
Voiceings (SS, Clean Tube, Dist Tube) change a bunch of stuff in the circuit (hence my question above). Maybe there is an issue in the voicing changes?
I'll check this week-end but I am almost sure this doesn't happen when switching between presets with same voicing
Quote from: Harley Hexxe on March 03, 2025, 12:50:54 PMThe most surprising thing I'm reading here is that your modeler does this too Dante. I've never experienced anything like that with my ADA gear or any of the Cyber amps. I'm wondering now if all modelers are like this?
I agree, this was not expected. Neither was the cool feedback I get onstage...that's a nice surprise.
When I was shopping around, I saw somebody complaining about latency when switching patches and somebody else commented on his post about the volume swell thing. If I have a chord ringing out..or a note...while switching, it'll do it on many of the high gain amps (there are a bunch)
Again, if I just make a quick switch and do it between notes, it's fine. It has caught me a couple times...usually when I hold the button too long. I think it's possible the button activates on Release, not on Push...I will test that
For years I've harbored as suspicion that this issue could be improved by firmware. However, it would affect the switching speed, which some players wouldn't like. There would also be a brief volume drop rather than swell.
The firmware should stage the program change by considering whether the destination patch has a higher or lower master volume than the current one, and then do the vactrol reprogramming in a certain sequence to avoid a volume swell.When switching from a low master volume to a higher master volume (e.g. Tube Dist program to SS Clean), it should do the voicing change first, insert a bit of a delay and then raise the master volume.In the other direction, it should do things in the opposite order: drop the master volume to the target, let it settle, and then change the voicing and EQ parameters.
You can see how these procedures would both have a volume drop. Like if we are going from Tube Dist where we have Master at 2.5 to a clean where we have it at 9.5, if we delay raising the Master volume, we we are first going to be switching from distortion to a really quiet clean, barely audible, which fades in when we finally raise the volume. So, brief volume drop! Then in the other direction, same thing: since we drop the master volume first, our clean quiets down briefly so as to nearly disappear in the mix, and then it goes dirty, which is loud again.
So the volume swell issue would be addressed but there would be an additional switching delay, with a volume drop.
The ADA guys might have tried this, for all we know, and settled on doing things faster at the cost of random volume behavior. When you switch between similar programs, it really is more or less instantaneous feeling, like say between a heavy distortion and crunch, where the Master levels are the same or close.The proposed logic would have to be somehow sensitive to the level difference; the farther apart are the two Master volumes, the more settling time should be allowed between reprogramming Master, and the rest of the program. That way the switching speed between similar programs is unaffected.
The first MP-2 firmware was very slow changes (almost like pulling teeth particularly compared to MP-1). They quickly added an EPROM update that included fast switching. You can put it back to "Normal" switching which is painfully slow). I'll try that to check if it gets rid of the loud pop I get when going to a clean (compressed) sound. Currently that the only issue I experience.
So I didn't try slowing it down yet in the MP-2. As long as I'm careful going to my clean patch, it's fine. I get no problems with Fast Patch change on the other MP-2 patches which all have different voices. I think the pop I get when going to the clean patch is that it's got quite a bit of compression and probably more master as it's clean and has to balance with my rhythm patch (which is 5 Warm Vintage voice).
In all the 20 odd years using MP-1, patch changes were never a problem, always fast and seamless regardless of voice.