Place to discuss input/preamp tubes

[rnolan]

I get mine from Evatco here (http://www.evatco.com.au/product-list/?filter_product_brand=47, the 12AX7 is the long plate and the CV4004 is the short plate, they are both 12AX7s), but dougs tubes have both (http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/mullard-12ax7.html). You may get a good deal from Evatco though as the AUD is very low right now ? I got my last 6 tubes from Evatco as they are in Oz and all good  Dougs has them for $20 USD, Evatco are currently $32 AUD less 10% GST (tax) to you (coz your not here, though I'd like it if you were LoL).
From another thread I'm getting that a Mullard long plate in V1 and 2 nice tight tubes in V2/3 is a good combination for 3TM. Hey I'd put in 3 long plates  >:D and crank the fu%k out of it, but I grew up living on the edge with very high gain Marshalls etc cranked up full and learned to tame it (not everyone's cup of tea).

[robertkoa]

 This is the quote from TubeDepot:
" JJ / Tesla ECC803s 'high gain' - Hotter and fatter than the regular JJ, this tube gives more headroom once in the circuit.
Creamy tones and great low end

This was what I noticed when long ago I had a JJ803s  installed in the H&K Tubeman  - more gradual and clearer gain.

But I play Pop /R&B / and Fusion
so gain like Lukather Carlton and
a little more gain but gain doesn't work with complex chords .

The MP1 and Tubeman have been in storage awhile...

I will probably try the JJ803s and the Sovtek LPS  to see if it increases the bottom end .

I like Fender and Marshall cleans  and singing leads / some legato ...I like some of the new Amplified Nations Amps I hear  demos of but  will be recording and don't want the volume in preproduction ..

I like Cab IR's and studio EFX ...
Singing gain with nice harmonic overtones.

The MP1 I have was modded before I bought it noise mods / and lower gain  ...it seems that more bottom end might really push it over the top .

I was hoping someone was using the MP1 more as I did .

If there was a way to get really transparent gain on chords like even cleaner than the EVH Crunch - I might explore that ...but no need go reinvent the wheel .

I may ask Amplified Nation about a preamp that can go right into

Cab IRs for recording .

I think preamps need a  faux phase inverter tube as part of the preamp with a saturation control to add filtering and harmonics to the signal - and sound less sterile .

I noticed long ago that even with cab emulation ...

A broad digital shelving EQ   depending upon preset [ amount of gain etc etc etc ]   - starting  at  9K   and gradually moved lower reaches a point where it does not affect most of the audible harmonics  but gets rid of the harsh hash and odd upper harmonics and improves the tones .
BUT - the modern Rock or especially  Metal leaves these in ...  80's Rock did not because it was all miced and speaker cleaned it up .

Modern IR's do not filter as much as a real mic'ed speaker .

This is why modeling guys are tweaking forever ...lol.

I think two IR's in series might do it .

I am not doing Retro Music at all [ my chords are very very modern ]  but I am not recording harsh guitar tones ...lol.

Not my thing .

Incidentally - Van Halen, Neil Schon, Mick Jones, Lukather, Slash etc. never had harsh tones ...

I like the Amplified Nations demos for tones though including the modded Marshall ones they are not harsh to my ears .

That's what I was hoping the 803s might give me more of with the MP1 when I bring it out.

I want to make sure I have some good+ music before I set ip a whole preproduction rig again ..
frankly.

I think the  Tube Preamps miss the pushed cleans also - Keith Richards , Jimi cleans ...the H&K  does those.

But the Friedman IRX and IRD  sound thin and sterile on cleans and pushed cleans and EJ crunch .

He [ Friedman ] is not going for that and I think a PI tube ( that is padded back to line level - and maybe does not actually invert because there is no rectifier - but Amp guys long ago told me the PI Tube really affects the tone of Amps ...

And NOBODY ever put a faux PI at the end of their tube  preamp  just for harmonics and filtering then padded back down to line level - because the REAL PI tube will be at the Amp stage .

But it is a way to get a little output section harmonics  and the tube has higher headroom and could be pushed different ways .

I am not a builder but if you ARE try it ...

Post here  ..I might buy one.

2024

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Robertkoa,

   The MP-1 should have all the bottom end you'll ever need already. My stock MP-1 does and so does my MP-2. The only one that didn't have enough low-end warmth was the MP-1 Classic. It's more like the modern Marshall kind of preamp for lack of a better comparison, meaning it doesn't have that low-end like a Fender Twin. I did warm that up with a pair of long plate Mullards and it helped without cutting out any of the mids and highs.

  I have a pair of JJ 803s in it now, but I'll be experimenting with some different tubes and maybe trying some combination of long and short plate in it. I definitely has a lot of bottom in it now, but the mids and highs are not as articulate as they were before, so I may try a short plate in V2 that's not as hot. It squeals with very high gain settings.

  True there is not PI in these preamps. but with the Microtube power amps, I think it simulates that since those also use 12AX7 tubes for the "Presence" control. I always dial that back to around 9:00-10:00 to keep it warmer.

[rnolan]

Hey Robertkoa, there is a mod some MP-1 users did that lowers the bottom end centre frequency, but like Harley said, when I was using a MP-1 it had plenty for me.  These days I use a MP-2 which has great cleans (and everything else).  All the voices in the MP-2 (10 of them) are tube, so no SS like the MP-1, and voices 1 (crystal clean) through 5 (Warm Vintage) only use one gain drive OD1 (i.e. no OD2 which is available for the higher gain settings 6 through 10).

For phase inverters, their job is basically to split the signal into +ve and -ve half of the signal to drive the push pull output tubes, which are typically 1 tube for +ve and 1 for -ve in a 50w head and 2 tubes each +ve/-ve for 100w heads (e.g. 6L6 or EL34s).  While PIs are often 12AX7s, PIs don't need that much gain so often it's better to use a 12AU7 or 12AT7 which are lower gain but higher current and push the output tubes harder (if you like a bit of output tube distortion).  I'd not thought about using a PI post preamp as by then I'm running stereo (well pseudo stereo) as channel A and B in either MP-1 or MP-2 are 180 deg out of phase (which happens at the stereo chorus).  To do what you are thinking, you could put a tube in the MP-1 FX loop which is after the gain and EQ but before the chorus and still mono.  So maybe a tube screamer but use a 12AT7 in it?

I've been using the Mullard long plates in my MP-2s.  I find them a bit more 3D and a bit more depth and nice smooth distortion.  My friend uses a Mullard short plate in V1 and a long plate in V2 in his MP-1.  Experimenting with V1 and V2 combinations (as Harley was saying) may get you closer to what you want?

For recording, I use the MP-2 cab sim outs.  Not quite as versatile as the dedicated ADA cab simulators e.g. my friend puts a ADA GCS-3 in his MP-1 FX loop.  The MP-2 cab sim outs gives you 2 x 12 or 4 x 12 selections but not mike placement options like the GCS.  However, it works great for me .