Mp1 + multieffect + poweramp + pedals

[anto84]

Hi all. Simple but relatively mind-consuming (at least my mind is consumed  :???:) question about my rack equipment and how to properly connect each of them.
I have an Ada Mp1, a Yamaha spx90ii rack multieffect (soon to arrive), and a Boss Me5 pedalboard (Me5 is all analog except delay and reverb) and a Peavey Classic 50/50 poweramp

Right now i'm using Boss me5 in the mp1 effect loop only for delays, with loop level knob on the mp1 at the max and me5 master volume at 5.0 (unity gain). Volume is the same with loop in or out. Oh and I'm using Me5 midi capabiities to change Mp1 presets but there is a considerable lag when switching.

Now I'm thinking to add a dedicated rack multieffect such as Yamaha Spx90ii for modulated effects (pitch, reverb, delay), so first question:
-Better to run the spx90 in mp1 fx loop (it is righ to have mp1 loop knob at max or not?) or link the two in series with the spx90 going in the poweramp?

Second question: my goal is to have an inspired Huff/Landau/80s sound so I really do'n know if these guys were running effects in loop or series. In the past I tryed a Korg A2 after the mp1 and it was so much better in effects loop..

At the moment I have just a 1x12 150 watt cabinet but I wish soon to run in stereo.

Could you please help me link all togheter?

[vansinn]

As far as I remember, the SPX90 has quite good vintage sound.
I'd suggest using it one either in the MP1 loop or between the MP1 and power amps.
I would run my axe cable to the ME5 on the floor, for pre-shaping tone via it's build-in stomps and compressor (which works differently than the MP1 comp), and forget about it's digital effects - well, you just might get some interesting effects out of it nevertheless ;)

I can't advice about the MIDI switching lag, but such issues has been up before with other gear, so no worries, mate.

Come to think of it.. the ME5 is relatively inexpensive on the market..  I just might obtain one myself to be used as a pre-shaper in front of my MP2 

[anto84]

So you suggest Guitar to Boss Me5 then from Me5 to Mp1 Input, from Mp1 to Spx90 (in series or via loop) then poweramp (from mp1 if I have spx in loop or from spx90 to it if i'm running yamaha in series).
But which is the right method to connect all the gears if I want to run my rig in stereo and have effects such as delays going left and right?
Two preamps is not an option at the moment. I watch a Landau videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2dyCvEUvv0 where he explains his rig, where If i'm not wrong he use the cabinet on the middle for his dry signal and 2 cabinet left and right for the wet, but I'm not able to figure out how the gear is connected. 

I don't know if there's an alternative way to achieve a stereo sound with only two cabinet...Peavey classic 50/50 has line out, direct out....and my 1x12 has an input for another cabinet...
Maybe just going from spx90's outs to poweramp ins and from there to two cabinets?

[vansinn]

Ahh yes, the MP1 has stereo output but only mono effects loop..
So, for stereo, run MP1 -> SPX90 -> amps and cabs.
Your Peavey classic 50/50 is stereo, but you will need two cabs.

[rnolan]

Hey auto84, the way Van suggest will work but you loose the stereo of the MP1 and its chorus (which is probably better sounding than either the Me5 or the SPX90).  Unfortunately, the SPX is mono in stereo out (as were most units in that era).  You could put the SPX in the loop (and Me5 up front) but then no stereo delay/rev  .  Ideally you could use a small stereo mixer (min 4 ch) and feed the SPX from the mixer FX send. This way you get SPX and MP1 in stereo (works as a parallel loop).The MP1 loop is serial.  The loop knob/pot is a dual ganged reverse pot i.e. when you turn up the send level it turns down the return level and vis versa.However, the good thing about the loop is the send is always active (has signal, obviously vol controlled from the knob) regardless of weather the loop is on or off in the patch.  And your 50/50 has 2 input jacks per channel ( :whoohoo!: ).
So I would try MP1 send > SPX in, MP1 A/B out to 50/50 L/R in and SPX L/R out > 50/50 2nd L/R in thus using both input jacks on each channel of the 50/50.  The 50/50 input jacks are just parallel wired so the sound will combine (mix) at its inputs.  Set the SPX to be full wet (no dry sound) with its internal mix controls then balance the volume of the Fx to the MP1 via the SPX output (set the MP1 output level and then bring up the SPX output to tour taste.  This will work fine (adjust SPX input with both MP1 loop send knob and SPX input knob for good level) and all be in stereo.  Of course you need another cab.One slight limitation of this method is that the MP1 chorus won't get sent to the SPX as the chorus comes after the loop return in the MP1 so if you are using the MP1 chorus, it wont get any reverb (SPX) applied.  The mixer option is the best but you need to get one....
To get around any patch change lag you probably need to by a midi foot switch like the original ADA MC1 that came with them.  One of the best for the money seems to be the Behringer FCB1010.

[anto84]

Oh thank you rnolan..i'm beginning to understand. What if I add a rack unit for reverb/delay like the Lexicon mpx1 ( which has stereo ins and outs) in a rack with the Ada Mp1, the Spx90 and the peavey classic poweramp? Could you please explain me how to connect everything? I had assumed I could link everything in series ( like ada outs to spx in; from spx out to lexicon in...until poweramp). But as you pointed Spx90 has only one input, while the other gear has two  :-\ So If I proceed that way would I lose stereo becaus of the spx90 that accept just one Ada input?

So..is there something different in terms of connection when adding a stereo rack reverb like the Lexicon Mpx1 (or 550) in the procedure you wrote?

And if I will use a mixer I have to run the spx90 and the lexicon separate channels or they are connectec each other in series and only the lexicon outs go to the mixer?

I'm tryng to achieve a rack sound inspired by the ones Dann Huff, Landau had when they used triple chorus like sound

[vansinn]

Just a notice..  yes, the SPX90 has mono in (had forgotten about that), but this just means that you'll loose stereo-out from the MP1, which really isn't a big deal, as the MP1 doesn't create much real stereo anyways.
The SPX90 will be the device creating your stereo sound field, so don't worry, especially for the very reason that when you play 'dry' i.e. with no effects, it doesn't really matter if this is mono or stereo.

In other words: MP1 (mono-out) -> (mono-in) SPX90 (stereo-out) -> 5050 (stereo-in)

Not sure it'll pay off using yet another rack device for additional reverb; should you feel like it, maybe just a decent mono reverb pedal in the MP1 send/return loop, set to a nice non-intrusive ambiance.

[anto84]

So I would try MP1 send > SPX in, MP1 A/B out to 50/50 L/R in and SPX L/R out > 50/50 2nd L/R in thus using both input jacks on each channel of the 50/50.  The 50/50 input jacks are just parallel wired so the sound will combine (mix) at its inputs.

When you say MP1 a/b to 50/50 l/r, do you mean MP1 out A to peavey channel ONE first input and MP1 out B to peavey channel ONE second input ? Or MP1 outA to peavey channel ONE first input and MP1 outB to peavey channel TWO first input?

[rnolan]

Hey auto84, so the second, MP1 A > peavey chan1 first input, MP1 B > peavey chan2 first input, SPX L > peavey chan1 2nd input, SPX R > peavey chan2 2nd input.  This way you are combining the MP1 outs and the SPX outs using the inputs on the peavey channels. The main reason I suggested this patching is because it preserves the stereo of the SPX and MP1 and all you need to buy is another cab.  This would be a good interim set up until you add more gear (e.g. Lexicon)

However, if you want to (can afford) a Lexicon MPX1 then you can chain through it to the poweramp as it's stereo in/out.  The reverb in the lexicon will be way better than the SPX90 (which were good in their day).  If you went this way, you could use the SPX in the MP1 loop and just use its other FXs (e.g. Delay)  One limitation of the cheaper Lexicon mpx units is they only give you 2 FXs at a time as opposed to say a quadverb or Intelliflex or TC GMaj2 etc. which give you 4 FX per patch.  Chaining through a stereo FX unit to the power amp (MP1 > Lexicon (or whatever stereo FX) > poweramp) is probably the most common way to patch it.

I disagree with Van about the MP1 in stereo, it makes a big difference particularly to the MP1 chorus (which is where the MP1 goes stereo in its signal chain).  Also you can do a great sounding trick buy turning the chorus depth to 100 and the rate to 0, this gives a great fattening very short delay (delay is controlled by the depth setting).  Chorus is basically a very short delay (~10 to 40 ms) with the delayed signal modulated (rate) i.e. subtlety pitch shifted up and down.  So with rate at 0 no modulation, just short delay  >:D .
I've always used a small mixer and run my rig a bit like you would a PA (both MP1 rig and now MP2 rig).  I use a Yamaha AM802 8 ch mixer with 3 FX sends.  Everything plugs into 2 channels each.  Send 1 and 2 go to my quadverb, and I used to use send 3 to my IPX33 smart shift (in your case you'd use send 3 to go to SPX90. So MP1 (or MP2) chan 1&2, quadverb L/R outs to chan 3&4, IPS33 (or for you SPX90) L/R out to chan 5&6, mixer outs to poweramp L/R.  Run FX units full wet (no dry signal) and mix it together with the channel sliders to taste....  You can probably pick up an AM802 2nd hand for not much.
There are always lots of ways to patch things and plenty of posts of the way various members do it.  The principles that drive my thoughts are: run it in stereo, try to keep it as analogue as much as you can (and mix in the digital FX etc.), ensure the gain structure is good (much easier with a small desk/mixer).
I suggest your next purchase is another cab, preferably the same as the one you have or buy one that can be run stereo  . I used a Yamaha 4 x 12 quad box initially and wired it stereo, later I bought 2 ADA 2 x 12 slant split stacks, and I also have a single ADA 2 x 12 slant split stack that I wired to run stereo or mono (less to lug  ).

[Chip Roberts]

Hey Anto84, when you say you were experiencing lag with the ME5, did you mean with the MIDI program changes it was lagging?  How were you switching patches?

I was thinking of getting one of these units for the analog overdrive and flange, but I have a bunch of units that lag already and I'm not interested in having another one collect dust.