Synergy Preamp Modules

[Zilthy]

Ah but Zilthy, would that really sound like the MP-1 or something else?
(Especially without the chorus).

I think they would do a very convincing job of the two overdrive channels. Sure, it wouldn't have the chorus or solid state clean, but I would bet they nail the drive tones very closely. Their other modules have proven that.

Would it be prefect? Probably not. Would it be really close, and nearly impossible to tell in a mix? Likely.

It sounds like the circuit could be hard though, given what Jaded Faith (module modder and maker) posted:

"I made one, but that's the only one. I won't make another either, it was probably my worst design challenge ever!

The problem with this request is on many levels. There are tubes and they only pertain to the gain stages. There is a serious lack of reliable documentation available. A huge part of the circuit (including the EQ) uses IC chips and has nothing to do with tubes at all. Trying to trace the signal flow throughout the MP1 I had during R&D was a nightmare.

In the end, the best effort I could give was setting up the gain stages and tuning it by ear. I wasn't satisfied with calling it a replica though, because it really couldn't be. The owner(s) of it have all been fairly pleased with it, but as pointed out you can get the real deal for about the same price as a module."

Though these days you aren't likely picking up an MP-1 for the cost of a module.

[Dante]

I think it would be tough to pick 2 sounds/voices for an MP-1 module

I suppose you could come up with a 3TM channel and MP-1 clean channel in one module - but that wouldn't really satiate anyone on this forum, I'm sure.

Putting all that programmability in something that small may be tricky, but nowadays, who knows?

What I do know is that, as soon as I throw down all the money for the Synergy, they're gonna come out with something better...like a 3-slot preamp or something.

btw: I saw Steve Vai yesterday on the YooToob and he was playing through two Synergy Syn-2 preamps, one of which had his neon green module in it (of course) and a Fryette power amp (that amp seems to be the rage for these Synergy guys - I'll try my Microtubes)

[Harley Hexxe]

Ah but Zilthy, would that really sound like the MP-1 or something else?
(Especially without the chorus).

I think they would do a very convincing job of the two overdrive channels. Sure, it wouldn't have the chorus or solid state clean, but I would bet they nail the drive tones very closely. Their other modules have proven that.

Would it be prefect? Probably not. Would it be really close, and nearly impossible to tell in a mix? Likely.

It sounds like the circuit could be hard though, given what Jaded Faith (module modder and maker) posted:

"I made one, but that's the only one. I won't make another either, it was probably my worst design challenge ever!

The problem with this request is on many levels. There are tubes and they only pertain to the gain stages. There is a serious lack of reliable documentation available. A huge part of the circuit (including the EQ) uses IC chips and has nothing to do with tubes at all. Trying to trace the signal flow throughout the MP1 I had during R&D was a nightmare.

In the end, the best effort I could give was setting up the gain stages and tuning it by ear. I wasn't satisfied with calling it a replica though, because it really couldn't be. The owner(s) of it have all been fairly pleased with it, but as pointed out you can get the real deal for about the same price as a module."

Though these days you aren't likely picking up an MP-1 for the cost of a module.

Very good points indeed. Then again with the Synergy modules, the original designers provided their designs for use in the Synergy format. Dave Tarnowski would have to submit his designs to them to come up with a module. I would suspect if he did, he would most likely use the designs he came up with for the pedals he had out about 15 years ago, (APP-1 and MP-1 Channel). I never got a chance to get my hands on either of those, but I'm always on the lookout for them.

[Harley Hexxe]

@ Dante,

   Look at what TC Electronic did with the 2290 delay. I have that pedal, and it's freakin' amazing!

   Same with Roland, look at the SDE3000, or SDE3000EVH, just to name a few.

   All are fully programmable. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to get the MP-1 in a Synergy sized module these days, but I agree with you, the cost would be a lot more than the average Synergy module.

[rnolan]

While this seems a bit sacrilegious (since I'm an analogue tube die hard), but the cheapest and easiest (probably) way to get close to an authentic MP-1 (without having one) would be a small cheap(ish) laptop with a VST wrapper program (e.g. cantabiles VST wrapper, free) and the Nembrini Audio MP-1 VST ($30 USD).

[Dante]

@ Dante,

  Look at what TC Electronic did with the 2290 delay. I have that pedal, and it's freakin' amazing!

  Same with Roland, look at the SDE3000, or SDE3000EVH, just to name a few.

  All are fully programmable. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to get the MP-1 in a Synergy sized module these days, but I agree with you, the cost would be a lot more than the average Synergy module.

I have an Echolution 3 - tiny pedal with 4 presets. I think we might be there already with technology...

[Harley Hexxe]

@ Dante,

   That was the point of my last post, we ARE already there with the technology.

@ Richard,

   Including what I just posted in reply to Dante, there are also pedals that have tubes in them too. How much of a stretch would it be to combine both into one pedal, or a Synergy-sized module at this point? (If I recall correctly, didn't the MP-1 Channel have a 12AX7 tube)?

  * Not to get off topic here, but has anyone seen what Dave Friedman is putting out these days? Everyone knows he builds good amps, but not everyone can afford his amps, or justify a 50 or 100 watt amp. So now he's making pedal preamp versions of his circuits and putting those on the market. Couple one of those with a decent power amp and your favorite cab, and you have the tones for much cheaper. (I'm liking the new Jake E. Lee model). *

    Just a shout out to Dave Tarnowski and/or any of the good folks at AD/A who might be checking in at the Depot...Maybe it's time history repeated itself. Possibly a fully programmable MP-1 in a pedal format, with tubes included? In 1987, AD/A turned the amplifier world on its ear with the MP-1. Wouldn't a pedal like that do the same thing with the "Amp-In-A-Box" world?

   Hey, I can dream can't I?

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, yes you can dream .  I'd like a 1 or 2 RU MP-3 that combined it all.  The MP-1 channel was tube and allegedly sounded great.  It just wasn't programmable.  So if you are happy with 3 sounds, cool (which for the most part I am, and have been for a while now). But as my current band do more songs, I'm starting to have to create more sounds to suit.

The other consideration is dynamic range for live (and loud).  Tubes do that better than modellers.  You can push tubes to get really interesting high energy sounds .  But it all depends on your "use case".  The Nembrini MP-1 VST really is impressive, but as Max said, he has the real thing and it is different.

But then playing out has changed, you can't play loud so much (like we used to).  And if you are recording etc. (like me in my lounge room) then all these technologies make sense.

[Dante]

Okay Zilthy, first of all; thank you for the review and your observations, it is much appreciated

Now a question. I know you can access a preamp module and a channel in a module via MIDI, but can you save your settings or do you have to memorize the knob positions?

Just curious

[Harley Hexxe]

Okay Zilthy, first of all; thank you for the review and your observations, it is much appreciated

Now a question. I know you can access a preamp module and a channel in a module via MIDI, but can you save your settings or do you have to memorize the knob positions?

Just curious

That's a good question, and I'd like to know how you can apply MIDI to those too.

[Dante]

Got my answer from the Gear Page - knob/switch settings are not programmable like a typical MIDI rig. The MIDI only switches channels or bypasses the units.

Not a deal breaker, but it would've been nice to save several settings for one module. You get one voice for each channel = 4 voices. Like an MP-1 Classic....or like my H&K amps. 

Except, with the ADA and the H&K you do get several options for each 'voice' (aka amp channel)

[Harley Hexxe]

Got my answer from the Gear Page - knob/switch settings are not programmable like a typical MIDI rig. The MIDI only switches channels or bypasses the units.

Not a deal breaker, but it would've been nice to save several settings for one module. You get one voice for each channel = 4 voices. Like an MP-1 Classic....or like my H&K amps.

Except, with the ADA and the H&K you do get several options for each 'voice' (aka amp channel)

I thought that might be the case with those. I hope they can be assigned to more than just one MIDI channel.

[Zilthy]

Got my answer from the Gear Page - knob/switch settings are not programmable like a typical MIDI rig. The MIDI only switches channels or bypasses the units.

Not a deal breaker, but it would've been nice to save several settings for one module. You get one voice for each channel = 4 voices. Like an MP-1 Classic....or like my H&K amps.

Except, with the ADA and the H&K you do get several options for each 'voice' (aka amp channel)

Yup. The knobs are WYSIWYG which is what I like about the Synergy. If I wanted to program presets I would just use my Fractal FM3 or Axe FX 3

[Dante]

Got my answer from the Gear Page - knob/switch settings are not programmable like a typical MIDI rig. The MIDI only switches channels or bypasses the units.

Not a deal breaker, but it would've been nice to save several settings for one module. You get one voice for each channel = 4 voices. Like an MP-1 Classic....or like my H&K amps.

Except, with the ADA and the H&K you do get several options for each 'voice' (aka amp channel)

Yup. The knobs are WYSIWYG which is what I like about the Synergy. If I wanted to program presets I would just use my Fractal FM3 or Axe FX 3

Or, an MP-2 ;)