BBE Sonic Maximizer: Necessary?

[jarrodthebobo]

Hey guys, I've been wondering for a while how ya'll really felt about the BBE unit there and how you use it.

For me, I cannot use the MP-1 without a BBE as imho it sounds very lackluster, muddy, and overly middy and... gross sounding without one. YMMV but for me, I cannot do without the BBE. It may just be a glorified presence and low control, but for whatever reason it completely clears up the mud and removes the ugly mid spike (in the 1k range) it seems to have. Very honky and unusable for me, and I play with tons of mids.

For example: Using the Michael Wagner Patch (OD1: 4 0D2: 5.5 B:12 M:6 t:6 p:12) sounds just... not all too good through my rig (various rack effects and a Carvin ts100). However, using the BBE with low set to about 2:30 and the process set to about ten o clock, (which is what the BBE is ALWAYS set at) I can get a really nice 80s glam tone out of the ADA. Bringing in my Rane 15 band eq and playing around with the bands helps the unit out even more.

I may just be very picky with my tone, but to me, I cannot use the Mp-1 without the BBE...


Your thoughts?

P.s I use a kramer Pacer Deluxe with a JB in the bridge.

[RandallRG]

Jarrod hey Dude hows it going? I see you over on the Kramer Forum (That's you...right?  ) I have been a M-E-T-A-L Head since Birth Dude!  It's funny with all of the Forums out there & everyone using all kinds of different gear etc & having the Good & Bad said about each piece of equipment where there's a MP-1 there ALWAYS seems to be a BBE close by or in the rack!  ;D I for one am a Firm believer in using one & feel that it Definitely does it's job....& then some!  Many have said it makes it sound to "Processed" Etc. Everyone's hearing is different & what may sound good to you & I will sound like Crap to others. It's all a matter of Taste/Preference Etc...I usually keep my Lo around 5-6 & the Process around 1-2 anything more on the Contour & I feel that it becomes a bit on the "Muddy" side. When you get the Treble/Presence Etc set up right on the MP-1 it's all good. I have spent alot of time experimenting with the BBE On & Off & for me I can tell the difference w/o it for sure. It just gives you that Xtra "Bite" that you sometimes feel is missing in your Sound. All in all Dude I like what it does & how it effects my Sound/Tone so for me it does the job it's suppose to & it works Dude....

*I use my 85' Kramer Focus 1000 with a Real Floyd & Single EMG*
*Or my 86' Kramer Focus 4000 "V" with a Real Floyd & DiMarzio X2N in the Bridge*

[jarrodthebobo]

Yeah I guess it does come down to personal preference really... But I don't know it's fairly odd how much of a difference this unit it makes to my PERSONAL sound/ how crazy different the amp sounds with the BBE on or off.

I'll try and post a clip to show what I mean sooner or later!

P.S Yes, I am the same Jarrod that's on the Kramer Forum (take that as a good thing or a bad thing really, as of recent a few people have been attacking me and continuing unnecessary drama pertaining to myself and things in the past... but I guess that's to be expected by a site completely inhabited by some grumpy old men who need to get out of the house more than once a year  ).

[El Chiguete]

I have to say that I changed the way I make a patch (now I tend to have OD1 lower than OD2) and like this I'm not using the BBE anymore.

[jarrodthebobo]

The settings I used the most are the following 2 settings: A Van Halen setting, and a Lynch setting.

VH: OD1: 4.4 OD2: 4.4-4.6 b:12 m:6 t:6 p:12 BBE Lo= 2:30 Pro= 10 o' clock. Rane 15 band eq set for a small cuts in the lower end up to 100hz (100hz is kept at 0). 160hz is boosted slightly (about 3db). 250hz is cut by about 2-3db, and 400hz is cut by about the same amount. 630hz is boosted by about 5db, 800hz (in the quadraverb) is boosted by 3db, 1khz is at 0, 1.6khz at 0, 2.5khz boosted by about 1db, 4khz boosted by about 3-5db (depending on my mood), and the rest all boosted by less than 1db.

Quad is set up for a plate reverb with a predelay of about 100-110ms, -20 low cut -10 high cut, 9 reflections, 9 (other setting which name is escaping me).

Alter Ego delay set for one tape echo repeat, mix little less than halfway.


Lynch: OD1: 4.8 OD2: 5.5 (these two depend on what era of lynch tone we're talking about) B:9 m:4 t:6 p:8. The  bbe is set the same as above, and so is the rane (although 4khz is cute down to about 2-3db).

Quad is set up for a hall reverb with a predelay of about 80-90ms, -20 low cut, -30 high cut, 8 reflections, and 8 of the other thing.

Alter ego set for tape delay, with about 3 repeats, mix a little under half, and  delay time at about 10 o' clock.



If anyone wants to try these settings out with a similar setup, go ahead and give me some tips or compliments or whatever else you may have to say about this set up.

Thanks!

-Jarrod

[jarrodthebobo]

Forgot to mention I've been using the Orbit Maestro EP-3 Booster pedal (http://www.orbitelectronix.com) set with the level all the way up boosting the front end of my MP-1.

It's the only boost I've ever used that sounds good with this unit, and its ALWAYS on.

It gives the Mp-1 a lot more 'air' to the unit, and some more presence that isn't ice picky or harsh. It makes playing a lot easier too. I'd recommend it to anyone.

They're handmade, use nos parts, and are under $100.


Gonna post a video soon.

[kawai2g4b]

Definitely would love to hear the Orbit with the MP-1 and am down for seeing the video as your rig is vastly different from mine.  How does your rig respond to "darker" sounding instruments if I may ask?

[RandallRG]

Definitely would love to hear the Orbit with the MP-1 and am down for seeing the video as your rig is vastly different from mine.  How does your rig respond to "darker" sounding instruments if I may ask?

X2! Yeah Jarrod....would be Killer to hear the Orbit with the MP-1! Have not seen a video with both yet...

[jarrodthebobo]

Honestly most of my instruments (all 12 of them) are either strats (so pretty naturally bright), or are just guitars that'd you'd expect to sound quite bright no matter what they're plugged into.

I've been wanting to get a Les Paul or something similar for the longest time now, but I keep going back to my strats (mostly kramers...).

However, I will say that my custom Fender U.S build sounds absolutely fantastic on the neck pickup through my setup. It's very fluid and sweet, especially when I'm going for the Eric Johnson vibe.

I'll try and record a video of my setup when I get home tonight...

would ya'll rather me do a close mic recording of my marshall cabinet, or more of a room mix with the mic set back a bit between my two cabs?

[jarrodthebobo]

http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=382.msg2677#msg2677

As promissed!

[realdealblues]

I've kind of been looking for an alternative to the BBE for years but haven't found anything that works as well with the ADA MP-1.

I love the tone of the ADA but the only thing it's missing is that low end push.  If I compare it with my EVH 5150 III or original Peavey 5150 I can dial in the same basic tone but it is always just missing that low end push. 

I've got several different power amps.  I have a Mosvalve MV-962, Carvin DCM200L, Peavey Classic 50/50 and ADA Microfet 100.  I can even run it straight into the power section of my 5150's and even with the 6L6's at loud volume it just doesn't have that low end push that I desire.

If I add my BBE 422A with my ADA and run it through the power section of my 5150 I can A/B it with the actual 5150 Amp itself and get it about 95% the same and with a SS power amp probably 90% the same, which is great for aging backs. 

The BBE does seem to add a little "sheen" of some sort that I can hear when I'm playing by myself and don't really like (which is why I've looked for alternatives) but usually in a full band situation I can't hear it.

I've been running 5150 amps since 1997 or 98 so maybe I'm just used to them.  I used the ADA before that and I still use it, but I just wish it had a little better bottom end push without the BBE.

My ADA MP-1 is stock I always wondered if any of the mods helped that but they all seem to add more gain and I don't need more gain or a different gain structure, if anything it could probably use less gain.

But anyway, for right now, I agree that I find the BBE necessary.

[RandallRG]

Realdealblues...very good read Dude & I know exactly what your saying when you talk about some "Low End Push". I to have said there is Definitely something about the BBE that just flat out works great with the MP-1. I run my MP-1 in the FX Return on my Randall RG100ES Head & it works & sounds Incredible! The volume that can be obtained (Simply put) is I-N-S-A-N-E! I recently was lucky enough to find a 3.666 "Recto" Modded MP-1 from a fellow member & I can tell you this much.....My BBE462 makes a VERY BIG difference for sure w/o a doubt. The "Recto" Mod already is Killer & has some great "Umph & Chug/Chug" to it in the Bass department  with the "Bass-Wart" Trimpot. I just adjusted them today & even when I got them all to sound what I feel represents some "KILLER M-E-T-A-L" Sound/Tone I then kick on my BBE & it's just got a whole new Sound & "Heaviness" to it.
I agree with you & quote you on this...("My ADA MP-1 is stock I always wondered if any of the mods helped that but they all seem to add more gain and I don't need more gain or a different gain structure, if anything it could probably use less gain"). The gain on the MP-1 (I feel anyway) is more than enough even on a Stock unit! I can't see using anymore than say 4.5-6.0 on OD1 & OD2 this works for me & may not for you or others etc depending on the gear that is being used. All In All either way I agree with you that I to do find the BBE necessary to get that xtra "UMPH" out of your MP-1... LONG LIVE THE M-E-T-A-L!

***Oh if I can ask you with the Power Amps you have listed a ("Mosvalve MV-962, Carvin DCM200L, Peavey Classic 50/50 and ADA Microfet 100") Can you tell me which unit you feel sounds the BEST to use with the MP-1? When the day does come for me to find a Power Amp I find it interesting to hear all of the comments & opinions etc on the different units that are out there. Thanks for your time***

[realdealblues]

RandallRG...glad to know I'm not alone in my thoughts  :)

And I totally agree about the OD settings.  I mainly play classic rock and 80's hair band stuff.  Most people use too much gain and distortion.  To me you lose that crisp, clean, articulate character that stands out with most great players.  I like to think of Van Halen's 1984 tone.  Like Panama or Drop Dead Legs.  He really has very little gain going.  I see people play it on the EVH 5150 III and they max out the gain on Channel 2 and they keep wanting more gain.  I keep the gain on that channel at 5 and I can get those tones without any problem.  I have no problem getting the same amount of sustain and squeals with that lower gain setting.  It's all in how you play and learning to control the equipment.  The ADA works the same way for me.  Now I don't play Death Metal or anything super heavy, but for Judas Priest or Ozzy or Van Halen or Ratt or Led Zeppelin or any of that kind of stuff you don't need to set the OD's on the ADA more 4 or 5, 6 tops.

As far as Power Amps.  Honestly after I A/B'd them all the Carvin DCM200L is what's in my rack right now.  It sounds pretty much identical to the Peavey Classic 50/50 tube amp and it's only 1 rack space and it only weighs like 4lbs.  It's 100w per channel into 8 or 4 ohms.  I run into 4 - 1x12 cabinets.  I stack them up like the ADA Split Stack cabinets so they are like having 2 - 2x12 Vertical Cabinets.  1x12 cabs are so light and easy to carry :)  It's plenty loud too and I like to play loud.  No problem getting over a drummer or cutting through the mix.  I have them all with 8 ohm speakers so I'm running it down to 4 ohms per channel.  Now if you're running 16 ohm 4x12 cabs then you might look at another option.

[realdealblues]

Here's the way my old ADA Rack look right now...although I might be changing up a few things.



Pretty simple:

ADA MP-1
Rocktron Hush IICX
Alesis Quadraverb
BBE Sonic Maximizer 422A
Carvin DCM200L

[El Chiguete]

Two quick questions:

- Are the BBE supposed to have no effect on the signal at 12oclock?
- Do you guys setup your BBEs after the preamp (before effects) or just before the power amp? The latter way would affect the tone of the power amp no?