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Author Topic: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected  (Read 12279 times)

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #30 on: Time Format »

  Hey BJ,

         You might want to ask MikeB about that directly. A lot of the clips posted here are done with preamps patched through a Microcab, some may even have an Ampulator in between that. Then again, there are a lot of posts here that are the MP-1, (or other ADA preamp), through the poweramp section of a head, and a mic'ed cab too.

         My personal favorite way of recording my ADA gear is mic'ed cabs mixed with Microcabs direct, and blended. I seem to have a lot more control over the final mix that way. It's a HUGE sound for guitar.

         From what I'm hearing, the MDRT will give your amp more "air." It will be a crisper tone for sure if you EQ it that way, it doesn't lose any of the warmth, but it does increase the upper mids,(Presence) and highs. The most obvious difference is that it has a lot more clarity. Notes are more articulate.

         In the story I recalled above, I left out the fact that what sold me on the Classic was the clean tones. They are more In-your-face, than the clean tones in the Trio, and there were more to choose from. I think that is what separates a good amp from a mediocre one. You can make any amp distort, but how good does it sound clean? Can it put a rise in your Levi's with it's clean tone as well as it's overdriven one?

         I will get a MDRT in a stock MP-1, but I'll keep one original as well. As for the 3TM, I'm not decided about the MDRT. It has a ridiculous amount of gain as it is so it doesn't need more. It could probably benefit from a better EQ though.

Harley 8)
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Lyates1987

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #31 on: Time Format »

  Hey BJ,

         You might want to ask MikeB about that directly. A lot of the clips posted here are done with preamps patched through a Microcab, some may even have an Ampulator in between that. Then again, there are a lot of posts here that are the MP-1, (or other ADA preamp), through the poweramp section of a head, and a mic'ed cab too.

         My personal favorite way of recording my ADA gear is mic'ed cabs mixed with Microcabs direct, and blended. I seem to have a lot more control over the final mix that way. It's a HUGE sound for guitar.

         From what I'm hearing, the MDRT will give your amp more "air." It will be a crisper tone for sure if you EQ it that way, it doesn't lose any of the warmth, but it does increase the upper mids,(Presence) and highs. The most obvious difference is that it has a lot more clarity. Notes are more articulate.

         In the story I recalled above, I left out the fact that what sold me on the Classic was the clean tones. They are more In-your-face, than the clean tones in the Trio, and there were more to choose from. I think that is what separates a good amp from a mediocre one. You can make any amp distort, but how good does it sound clean? Can it put a rise in your Levi's with it's clean tone as well as it's overdriven one?

         I will get a MDRT in a stock MP-1, but I'll keep one original as well. As for the 3TM, I'm not decided about the MDRT. It has a ridiculous amount of gain as it is so it doesn't need more. It could probably benefit from a better EQ though.

Harley 8)

Thanks for the input! For my tastes and what I like to play the MP1 has more than enough gain than I need. One of the reasons I don't think MikeB is using an IR is that the POST clips sound extremely similar to the raw preamp signal from my 5153 6l6. Those have a preamp out on the back which I can run into my interface and through my DAW.

I was lookin at MP1 classics and I saw there is a speaker emulation button on the back for the recording outputs. Pretty slick. The cleans on the MP1 are great as they are, so the classic must be fantastic.

I think I'll sleep on the MDRT. It's currently not apart of the budget but not gonna rule out adding it at some point, we'll see how things go. For now I think it's caps/refresh.
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rnolan

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #32 on: Time Format »

Hey BJ, No IRs used in Mikes clips, IIRC he used his ADA GCS3 in the MP-1 loop, he has it mounted in his rack to use when he needs it for recording.  He also uses a Gmaj2 between his MP-1 and poweramp (B200s).  He has since bought a US MP-1 as well, swapped in his old 240v transformer and is keeping it stock for now.  There's a post by Systomatic Chaos (SC) re why he prefers the stock transformer creamy and warmth were 2 of the words he used I think.  Mikes MP-1 is the one I bought new when they first came out, I used it for a gizzilian gigs over many years and sold it to Mike when I bought my first MP-2 (as soon as they came out), there's some clips of it from when I had it (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1090.0) before any mods were done.  Mike put in a new stock tube board, did the battery, noise and rear jack mods and MDRT so that's what it is today and in his clips.  He's got a boogie SPAX7 in v1 followed by a Mullard short plate in v2.  He and I also did some comparisons of running his GMaj2 in parallel or in line as the GMaj2 digitises (A/Ds) the signal on input and I like to keep the signal analogue all the way through.  It made a difference but then he lost all the CC stuff (e.g. master vol control) from the GMaj2 so he went back to chaining it (MP-1 > GMaj2 > B200s).  The big difference we noticed when he put in the MDRT was how much it opens up the dynamics, seems less compressed and more articulate.  In the end it's a taste thing, and, if you can, have 2 units, 1 stock and 1 MDRT as he has done.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #33 on: Time Format »

    Hey Richard,

            Thanks for chiming in! It's been so long since Mike posted those clips, that I couldn't quite remember the set up, but I knew it wasn't direct.

            I'm going to go find those posts from Systematic Chaos and re-read those. He was very thorough about his comparisons, and I had forgotten about those too! See what happens when I go absent from the Forum for an extended period?  :lol:  Now I have to go do my research, thanks for reminding me of that.

            @BJ, Yes, the Classic does have the direct outs on the back with a choice of two cab simulations, but I've never used them. The truth about that is: they really don't sound that good plugging in that way. It sounds very much like it would if you plugged in your guitar to an overdrive pedal, then went direct to a mixing board. Keep in mind, the electric guitar is not a complete instrument by itself, it needs an amplifier to make it a complete instrument, because the amplifier has the preamp, power amp, and speakers. That's the basic instrument. Remove any one of those elements, and you have to compensate with some sort electronic simulation, or you end up with a sound that is missing something.

            The Classic is also a different sounding preamp from the original MP-1. It doesn't have as much warmth as the original, and the Chorus is much more subtle than the original, so when it comes to using it, a warmer power amp is definitely a plus. In an A/B comparison I did a while back, I found I liked the Classic tones when I used it with the B200S, and Microtube 100 poweramps more than I did with the Microtube 200, and I still use the Microcab II with either of those setups. It also sounds great with my Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp as well, as long as I dial the Presence down to a low setting. This is because the MP-1 Classic sounds more like a vintage Marshall preamp from the 70's to my ears. It's definitely NOT the same as the original.

Harley 8)
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Lyates1987

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #34 on: Time Format »

Hey BJ, No IRs used in Mikes clips, IIRC he used his ADA GCS3 in the MP-1 loop, he has it mounted in his rack to use when he needs it for recording.  He also uses a Gmaj2 between his MP-1 and poweramp (B200s).  He has since bought a US MP-1 as well, swapped in his old 240v transformer and is keeping it stock for now.  There's a post by Systomatic Chaos (SC) re why he prefers the stock transformer creamy and warmth were 2 of the words he used I think.  Mikes MP-1 is the one I bought new when they first came out, I used it for a gizzilian gigs over many years and sold it to Mike when I bought my first MP-2 (as soon as they came out), there's some clips of it from when I had it (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1090.0) before any mods were done.  Mike put in a new stock tube board, did the battery, noise and rear jack mods and MDRT so that's what it is today and in his clips.  He's got a boogie SPAX7 in v1 followed by a Mullard short plate in v2.  He and I also did some comparisons of running his GMaj2 in parallel or in line as the GMaj2 digitises (A/Ds) the signal on input and I like to keep the signal analogue all the way through.  It made a difference but then he lost all the CC stuff (e.g. master vol control) from the GMaj2 so he went back to chaining it (MP-1 > GMaj2 > B200s).  The big difference we noticed when he put in the MDRT was how much it opens up the dynamics, seems less compressed and more articulate.  In the end it's a taste thing, and, if you can, have 2 units, 1 stock and 1 MDRT as he has done.

Yes! Creamy and warm is how i'd describe the stock sound too. really creamy if you ask me and I love it. I'm gonna say the GCS3 was not connected during these clips but it makes sense, after re-reading his post I think he was going for the comparison in the preamp signal. The POST clips don't sounds like they've gone through a cab, cab sim, or IR at all. I am with you on keeping the analog signal as is without digitizing it. I'm kind of a purist in that regard as well. Don't like too many things muddling up the signal.
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Lyates1987

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #35 on: Time Format »

    Hey Richard,

            Thanks for chiming in! It's been so long since Mike posted those clips, that I couldn't quite remember the set up, but I knew it wasn't direct.

            I'm going to go find those posts from Systematic Chaos and re-read those. He was very thorough about his comparisons, and I had forgotten about those too! See what happens when I go absent from the Forum for an extended period?  :lol:  Now I have to go do my research, thanks for reminding me of that.

            @BJ, Yes, the Classic does have the direct outs on the back with a choice of two cab simulations, but I've never used them. The truth about that is: they really don't sound that good plugging in that way. It sounds very much like it would if you plugged in your guitar to an overdrive pedal, then went direct to a mixing board. Keep in mind, the electric guitar is not a complete instrument by itself, it needs an amplifier to make it a complete instrument, because the amplifier has the preamp, power amp, and speakers. That's the basic instrument. Remove any one of those elements, and you have to compensate with some sort electronic simulation, or you end up with a sound that is missing something.

            The Classic is also a different sounding preamp from the original MP-1. It doesn't have as much warmth as the original, and the Chorus is much more subtle than the original, so when it comes to using it, a warmer power amp is definitely a plus. In an A/B comparison I did a while back, I found I liked the Classic tones when I used it with the B200S, and Microtube 100 poweramps more than I did with the Microtube 200, and I still use the Microcab II with either of those setups. It also sounds great with my Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp as well, as long as I dial the Presence down to a low setting. This is because the MP-1 Classic sounds more like a vintage Marshall preamp from the 70's to my ears. It's definitely NOT the same as the original.

Harley 8)

I was wondering if the cab sim on the classic was decent or not. Interesting that it had that option for how old it is. I'm not the least bit surprised that it is antiquated.

I have a quick quetion that is not quite related to this thread but I'm int he process of building a rack set up. I have an SKB, 4 single rack slots. I have a Furman rack power conditioner. Littereally the only gripe I have with the MP1 is the power switch being on the backside. I've been using it outside of the rack since I got it but now that i got it in the rack I gotta get behind it and reach back there to flip it which a super pain the ass with my bedroom set up. Would it be ok to leave the MP1 in the on position and just have it turn on when I turn my power conditioner on or is this something I need to avoid doing?
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #36 on: Time Format »

    Hey BJ,

             Of course it's alright to leave it on and power up your rack with the Furman. I do that with my rack gear all the time, and not just the Preamps, but effects processors too. the only thing you DON'T want to do that with is any power amp.

             For powering up your rack: Turn on your Furman power supply then, turn on the main power switch on your power amp. Let it warm up for at least 15 seconds, then flip the standby switch on the power amp.

             To shut down your rack: Flip the Standby switch, then turn off the main power switch in the power amp, then turn of the whole rack with the Furman power switch.

              Follow that procedure every time and you won't have any problems with your rack.

              As for the cab sims on the back of the Classic, we're getting into a grey area here. It has two options: Closed back 4x12, and Open back 2x12.
              (It's not as antiquated as you might think. The fact is; the MP-1 Classic was the last rack mounted preamp offering from ADA before they disappeared in 1994).

              Some folks might like the simulated mic'ed cabs from the preamp direct to the board, but with the sims coming from the preamp itself, your limited to one or the other. You can't even turn them off to go direct that way. This is why I prefer to use the Microcab II. I'm speaking strictly for myself here. I like to use the Microcab II after the poweramp and before the Split-Stacks. The Microcab allows me to dial in the mic position relative to the center of the cone, and dial in the amount of low end Thump I want with it, plus it has a lot more cab simulations to choose from. Most of the time, I don't use any of the cab sims in a live situation, I just leave all the cab selection buttons in the out position and just go direct that way, and blend that in with the mic'ed cabs from the mixing desk. It's kind of a generic direct setting, but it works for me. I've never used the direct outs from any of my preamps into a board or DAW.
   I like adding the character of the power amp in with the direct signal.

Harley 8)
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Lyates1987

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #37 on: Time Format »

    Hey BJ,

             Of course it's alright to leave it on and power up your rack with the Furman. I do that with my rack gear all the time, and not just the Preamps, but effects processors too. the only thing you DON'T want to do that with is any power amp.

             For powering up your rack: Turn on your Furman power supply then, turn on the main power switch on your power amp. Let it warm up for at least 15 seconds, then flip the standby switch on the power amp.

             To shut down your rack: Flip the Standby switch, then turn off the main power switch in the power amp, then turn of the whole rack with the Furman power switch.

              Follow that procedure every time and you won't have any problems with your rack.

              As for the cab sims on the back of the Classic, we're getting into a grey area here. It has two options: Closed back 4x12, and Open back 2x12.
              (It's not as antiquated as you might think. The fact is; the MP-1 Classic was the last rack mounted preamp offering from ADA before they disappeared in 1994).

              Some folks might like the simulated mic'ed cabs from the preamp direct to the board, but with the sims coming from the preamp itself, your limited to one or the other. You can't even turn them off to go direct that way. This is why I prefer to use the Microcab II. I'm speaking strictly for myself here. I like to use the Microcab II after the poweramp and before the Split-Stacks. The Microcab allows me to dial in the mic position relative to the center of the cone, and dial in the amount of low end Thump I want with it, plus it has a lot more cab simulations to choose from. Most of the time, I don't use any of the cab sims in a live situation, I just leave all the cab selection buttons in the out position and just go direct that way, and blend that in with the mic'ed cabs from the mixing desk. It's kind of a generic direct setting, but it works for me. I've never used the direct outs from any of my preamps into a board or DAW.
   I like adding the character of the power amp in with the direct signal.

Harley 8)

Good to know! Thank you for the explanation, that makes things a helluva lot easier.
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rnolan

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #38 on: Time Format »

It seems the 2 main things included in the classic from the MP-2 is the stereo parallel loop  :thumb-up: and the cab sims.  I use MP-2 and find the cab sims are very useful and sound quite good.  I use the 2 x 12 open back option mostly, seems to sound better than the 4 x 12 sealed back, for me anyway.  So I use them direct into desk for recording and also in my live rig when I use the Messa P112 bass cabs which have a piezo tweeter.  In a larger stage setup I'd use the direct outs > amp for split cabs and the cab sim outs into the FOH desk, mic the cabs and blend it all together.  While the MP-2 cab sims aren't particularly adjustable like the microcab, GCS 3/6 etc. they do a decent job IMHO.  I suspect they were also inspired by ADA's other cab sims e.g. microcab etc).  One of ADA's first cab sim(ish) is the MP-1 headphone out, it's pretty basic, just some caps to take off a bit of top end (which is the first fundamental thing a cab sim does).
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #39 on: Time Format »

   Hey Richard,

          In the MP-1 Classic, It also has the Noise Gate as well as the "Brown" Tube voicing. It also didn't include the XLR outs from the Direct outputs like the MP-2 does. There are also a few other internal things that make it different from the original MP-1.

          In respects to the MP-1 headphone output, in the manual, it tells you to connect a parametric EQ to the headphone out, and gives you EQ settings on it to emulate a mic'ed cab.

Harley 8)
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rnolan

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #40 on: Time Format »

Hey Harley
I didn't remember that about the MP-1 manual, must read it again.  There are some posts (from quite a while ago) where MJMP advised about the caps on the HP outs.  And yes noise gate is the other addition from MP-1.  So you don't get the XLR outs, didn't know that, I don't use them often (if at all) anyway.  Though they make sense for a live DI plug in, connecting to stage box.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: MP1 MDRT upgrade - So much more than I expected
« Reply #41 on: Time Format »


In respects to the MP-1 headphone output, in the manual, it tells you to connect a parametric EQ to the headphone out, and gives you EQ settings on it to emulate a mic'ed cab.

Harley 8)

Yeah I do remember reading that too, but I can't find it in one of the manuals.
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