ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
ADA Preamps => Original MP-1 => Topic started by: MikeB on June 18, 2016, 12:43:11 AM
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So, I finally found time to get on with the MDRT upgrade. My MP1 is stock but has a new superstock tube board and has had the noise mod done. Today I added the MDRT as well as changing out the big capacitor on the main board. MJMP sent me a 10000uF to replace the 4700uF. He hasn't really told me why I'm doing that but I figured that bigger must be better and he's not going to advise me to do something that will make it worse, so what the hell. So, I'm not really sure what is responsible for the total shock and awe that occurred this afternoon or if its a combination of the two changes or what. Anyway, who cares!!
The mod was easy enough and I could have just done it and then tried to find the words to describe the difference. But I didn't. I've read other peoples attempts at describing the difference and its hard to really properly understand what has happened. I decided, in the name of science, to record my raw guitar signal and then use that to feed into the MP1 before and after the upgrade, so that everyone can hear the difference. I was expecting a change, hopefully an improvement, but what I got was so much more...
I'll post my method after the results for anyone that cares how I went about it and what bits and pieces I have.
I have recorded the MP1 without any effects other than the built in chorus so that the result is pure MP1 before and after. I did a clean, a dirty, distorted chords and distorted single notes. I have them as .wav and so I'll to post each pair in new post....
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and now the dirty track:
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the distorted chords:
note: I had to shave 10dB off the recording signal because it went waaaay into the red.
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distorted single notes:
note: also with a 10dB reduction in recording
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So it seems that I have a new amp! I was pretty happy with the tone I was getting before this upgrade and now when I listen back to the old sound its like I'm hearing it through a wall or something. Admittedly, the process introduced a lot of flaws into the tone.
I used my old sony minidisk walkman which I bought about 3 months before Apple released the iPod and forever banished the minidisk to a very brief history.
Guitar -> minidisk recorder -> mp1 (with GCS3 in loop) -> Line 6 UX1 interface -> Pod Farm (nothing selected) -> Live Lite 8
The minidisk recorder/player introduced quite a lot of noise. I could have spent longer fiddling with the levels to ensure unity gain, but I think I was reasonably close. The Line 6 UX1 is a crappy interface. The AD conversion is terrible and does not really do the amp justice. However, I really only wanted to demonstrate the difference and the playing field was at least level.
Whilst doing the upgrade, something I did cleared the memory, so I lost all of my presets. I had written down the ones I used in case that happened. When I realised that the memory was wiped, I was disappointed, but once I heard the new improved MP1, I realised that I'm going to have to completely reprogram it anyway.
Right, that's enough rambling for now. I have to go and make dinner now. Tomorrow the reprogramming begins.
cheerio,
Mike
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My Dirty Ravioli Transformer ! :bow:
Hey Mike, when I put the ravioli inside my mb1, the presets sounded way different so I decided to undo everything, and reprogram as brand new. :thumb-up:
Your clean and your dirty sound really good anyway
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The cap I send smooths out the heater voltage and the voltage for the 5V.Now the bigger it is the better it will smooth out the ripple,but on original transformers you can't go to big because if the line voltage is too low you could get start up problems.The MDRT has a bigger voltage and current output so you won't have that problem with a 10.000µF cap.
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Hey Mike, big difference. Seems to have lots more tops and sparkle, more air and looses the low mid so off nasal sound (if that makes sense). Definitely much more in your face, I couldn't help thinking it sounds more like an MP2 now. As you say, needs reprogramming as all your settings applied to the previous set up. Adds weight to this being a must do mod for MP1 :thumb-up: :whoohoo!:
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I couldn't help thinking it sounds more like an MP2 now.
Yeah. When i heard the distorted chords, that was my first thought.
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Sorry to bring up this old thread. I'm hearing a big increase in treble in the post-MDRT clips, almost like a low pass filter has been removed from the signal path. Is this to be expected?
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Sorry to bring up this old thread. I'm hearing a big increase in treble in the post-MDRT clips, almost like a low pass filter has been removed from the signal path. Is this to be expected?
It seems to be. I'm hearing the same thing, a huge increase in the highs and upper mid frequencies. I do hear the low end is tighter and still there, but I'm hoping the (lower) mids can be tweaked to come through a bit better. Personally, I lean towards a warmer guitar tone myself.
Harley 8)
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Sorry to bring up this old thread. I'm hearing a big increase in treble in the post-MDRT clips, almost like a low pass filter has been removed from the signal path. Is this to be expected?
It seems to be. I'm hearing the same thing, a huge increase in the highs and upper mid frequencies. I do hear the low end is tighter and still there, but I'm hoping the (lower) mids can be tweaked to come through a bit better. Personally, I lean towards a warmer guitar tone myself.
Harley 8)
Yeah, me too. I'm playing the lead channel right now, and the treble is set at 2, presence at 0. Makes for a good jazz fusion-y mellow tone.
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MDRT increases tubes dynamics and makes the MP-1 more open sounding, less compressed.
You just loose some compression, not the MP-1 "creaminess".
Of course, eq depends on personal taste.
It's a big improvement to the overall tone...but the MP-1 sounds good also with its original transformer.
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Hey Max,
I get that, and I could hear that in the demos. I momentarily forgot what guitar was used with this, however, it is EQ'ed towards the bright side. Since my main guitar is a Stratocaster, EQ settings like that would sound shrill, and not very pleasing at all.
Just like Torstien, I rarely use my Treble setting higher than +2. Sometimes I drop the Treble to -4 or -6, and raise the Presence for sweeter highs. It depends what tone you are looking for. In most of my programs in the MP-1, I normally have the Bass set +10 or +12. I should also make clear that these are the typical settings I use when the MP-1 is plugged into the MT-200. I'll drop the Bass settings down if I'm plugged into the B200S, since that is a warmer sounding power amp.
When I get one of my MT-100's up and running again, I'll probably have to tweak the EQ again since that doesn't sound quite the same as the 200.
Harley 8)
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Hey Max,
I get that, and I could hear that in the demos. I momentarily forgot what guitar was used with this, however, it is EQ'ed towards the bright side. Since my main guitar is a Stratocaster, EQ settings like that would sound shrill, and not very pleasing at all.
Just like Torstien, I rarely use my Treble setting higher than +2. Sometimes I drop the Treble to -4 or -6, and raise the Presence for sweeter highs. It depends what tone you are looking for. In most of my programs in the MP-1, I normally have the Bass set +10 or +12. I should also make clear that these are the typical settings I use when the MP-1 is plugged into the MT-200. I'll drop the Bass settings down if I'm plugged into the B200S, since that is a warmer sounding power amp.
When I get one of my MT-100's up and running again, I'll probably have to tweak the EQ again since that doesn't sound quite the same as the 200.
Harley 8)
Yep.
100% right, mate.
With MDRT the MP-1 with "extreme" eq settings could become too fizzy, depending on the power amp and settings, speakers and guitar's pickups.
I love to eq my MP-1 with high settings for bass, mid, high and presence (something like 9,6,6,10 or 9,6,6,12), because this gives it a very plexish bite.
But, after MDRT, I had to lower both power amp's channels presence controls.
And I use a Blackstar 2x12 cab with 70/80 Celestion speakers, that have very balanced response with solid basses, efficient mids and smooth round highs (very different from V30, more close to G12T-75 with a little less basses and better mids, to my ears).
I got a very "in your face" sound now.
Uh, Harley...do you have 10 minutes to run a small test for me?
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Hey Max,
I get that, and I could hear that in the demos. I momentarily forgot what guitar was used with this, however, it is EQ'ed towards the bright side. Since my main guitar is a Stratocaster, EQ settings like that would sound shrill, and not very pleasing at all.
Just like Torstien, I rarely use my Treble setting higher than +2. Sometimes I drop the Treble to -4 or -6, and raise the Presence for sweeter highs. It depends what tone you are looking for. In most of my programs in the MP-1, I normally have the Bass set +10 or +12. I should also make clear that these are the typical settings I use when the MP-1 is plugged into the MT-200. I'll drop the Bass settings down if I'm plugged into the B200S, since that is a warmer sounding power amp.
When I get one of my MT-100's up and running again, I'll probably have to tweak the EQ again since that doesn't sound quite the same as the 200.
Harley 8)
Yep.
100% right, mate.
With MDRT the MP-1 with "extreme" eq settings could become too fizzy, depending on the power amp and settings, speakers and guitar's pickups.
I love to eq my MP-1 with high settings for bass, mid, high and presence (something like 9,6,6,10 or 9,6,6,12), because this gives it a very plexish bite.
But, after MDRT, I had to lower both power amp's channels presence controls.
And I use a Blackstar 2x12 cab with 70/80 Celestion speakers, that have very balanced response with solid basses, efficient mids and smooth round highs (very different from V30, more close to G12T-75 with a little less basses and better mids, to my ears).
I got a very "in your face" sound now.
Uh, Harley...do you have 10 minutes to run a small test for me?
It would be cool to test them side by side. Seems like everyone digs the sound more after getting the MDRT.
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Hey Max,
I'm not sure if I can, but I'll try. What kind of test?
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Hey Max,
I get that, and I could hear that in the demos. I momentarily forgot what guitar was used with this, however, it is EQ'ed towards the bright side. Since my main guitar is a Stratocaster, EQ settings like that would sound shrill, and not very pleasing at all.
Just like Torstien, I rarely use my Treble setting higher than +2. Sometimes I drop the Treble to -4 or -6, and raise the Presence for sweeter highs. It depends what tone you are looking for. In most of my programs in the MP-1, I normally have the Bass set +10 or +12. I should also make clear that these are the typical settings I use when the MP-1 is plugged into the MT-200. I'll drop the Bass settings down if I'm plugged into the B200S, since that is a warmer sounding power amp.
When I get one of my MT-100's up and running again, I'll probably have to tweak the EQ again since that doesn't sound quite the same as the 200.
Harley 8)
I actually didn't know I could set the EQ in minus! Practical.
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Here is a compare with a 3TM unit, without and with MDRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs&ab_channel=undetectable
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Here is a compare with a 3TM unit, without and with MDRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs&ab_channel=undetectable
That's interesting. There is definitely more upper mids in the MDRT. He has them dialed in pretty close though.
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Here is a compare with a 3TM unit, without and with MDRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs&ab_channel=undetectable
That's interesting. There is definitely more upper mids in the MDRT. He has them dialed in pretty close though.
Definitely sounds better to me than the clips earlier in this thread.
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Hey Torstien,
It's definitely how you dial it in that makes the difference. Taste is subjective ;D
At least I could hear it still retains it's low end, that's pretty important to me anyway.
The only thing about the 3TM mod, is that it doesn't do clean tube tones anymore, those are gone completely. For that reason, I think it's important to me to keep a stock MP-1 on hand for those clean to low gain settings.
Harley 8)
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Hey Torstien,
It's definitely how you dial it in that makes the difference. Taste is subjective ;D
At least I could hear it still retains it's low end, that's pretty important to me anyway.
The only thing about the 3TM mod, is that it doesn't do clean tube tones anymore, those are gone completely. For that reason, I think it's important to me to keep a stock MP-1 on hand for those clean to low gain settings.
Harley 8)
Yeah, that's for sure :)
I'm debating with myself whether I'm gonna have the MDRT installed or not. Or maybe keep this one stock, and get another one to mod, like you say!
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Yeah, that's for sure :)
I'm debating with myself whether I'm gonna have the MDRT installed or not. Or maybe keep this one stock, and get another one to mod, like you say!
Please don't misunderstand, the MDRT will still give you clean tones as well as distortion, and everything in between. There will just be more brilliance on tap with the upper mids and highs. I'm sure you can tame that down if it's too much using your EQ. Of course there is also the issue of what tubes you choose to use in the MP-1 with the MDRT mod. In my particular case, since my primary guitars are Strats, (which can be insanely bright in some cases), I'm more interested in keeping the midrange and low frequencies intact, which I could hear from the video demo, it does. I might even try a pair of ECC803's in this mod. Those are pretty warm tubes, but then, long plate Mullards are usually my go-to choice for preamp tubes.
Harley 8)
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Hey Max,
I'm not sure if I can, but I'll try. What kind of test?
If I understood right, you've a MP-1 with MDRT...right?
If so, create a patch with these settings:
OD1 : 7.5
OD2 : 7.5
Master : 5.5
Bass : 6
Mid : 6
Treble : 9
Presence : 12
Then connect a guitar with PASSIVE pickups.
Now set the front panel Output Volume pot over half way, around 1 'o clock or more: do you hear any squeal from the speakers?
This is a strange issue I found with MDRT and those settings.
I handled it using a buffer between guitar and MP-1 or a guitar with ACTIVE pickups, but I would like to see if this is something that affects my unit for a strange reason or units with MDRT installed.
I remember MikeB had a similar issue, but he's not active here since longtime. :dunno:
Thanks a lot, mate! :thumb-up:
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Here is a compare with a 3TM unit, without and with MDRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs&ab_channel=undetectable
Nice!
The one with MDRT is more open sounding and less compressed.
Not fizzy, to my ears...and then one can lower highs and presence a little.
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The only thing about the 3TM mod, is that it doesn't do clean tube tones anymore, those are gone completely. For that reason, I think it's important to me to keep a stock MP-1 on hand for those clean to low gain settings.
Harley 8)
That's why I use an MP-2, the cleans are superior to the MP-1. And I switch (midi switcher) between the MP-1 for distortion and MP-2 for cleans and low gain stuff.
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Hey Max,
No, I'm afraid I do not have the MDRT in any of my MP-1's yet.
I would like to get it installed in my 3TM modded MP-1, and I' was thinking about having it installed in the stock MP-1 I have as well. I'll send these to MJMP for this to get done.
As for pickups, I only use passive pickups. I'm not a fan of active ones, they just don't do anything for me.
In the video clip MJMP posted, the only MP-1 I see there is a 3TM modded one. I couldn't see if the other one was also a 3TM with the MDRT.
Harley 8)
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The only thing about the 3TM mod, is that it doesn't do clean tube tones anymore, those are gone completely. For that reason, I think it's important to me to keep a stock MP-1 on hand for those clean to low gain settings.
Harley 8)
That's why I use an MP-2, the cleans are superior to the MP-1. And I switch (midi switcher) between the MP-1 for distortion and MP-2 for cleans and low gain stuff.
Hey MJMP,
The MP-2 does have some very strong clean tones, but then again, all the ADA pre amps have great clean tones!
The original MP-1 has really good clean tones, rich and warm. And the Classic has some VERY good clean tones that are very vintage sounding. Each one of these has it's own character.
If you recall from one of my early posts, shortly after I became an active member here, I did relay the story of when I bought my first MP-1 Classic. It came down to a choice between the Classic and a Groove Tubes Trio. In the end, I chose the Classic. Not because of the money, but because of the tones. The money didn't matter. The Trio was only $200 more than the Classic, but the Classic could give me all the same tones the Trio could, and more! Plus, I could save the settings in the Classic.
Clean or dirty, ADA had it all. The only thing I've seen that might come close are the Synergy systems I see now.
(It took almost 30 years for anyone to catch up to ADA)
Harley 8)
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The only thing about the 3TM mod, is that it doesn't do clean tube tones anymore, those are gone completely. For that reason, I think it's important to me to keep a stock MP-1 on hand for those clean to low gain settings.
Harley 8)
That's why I use an MP-2, the cleans are superior to the MP-1. And I switch (midi switcher) between the MP-1 for distortion and MP-2 for cleans and low gain stuff.
Hey MJMP,
The MP-2 does have some very strong clean tones, but then again, all the ADA pre amps have great clean tones!
The original MP-1 has really good clean tones, rich and warm. And the Classic has some VERY good clean tones that are very vintage sounding. Each one of these has it's own character.
If you recall from one of my early posts, shortly after I became an active member here, I did relay the story of when I bought my first MP-1 Classic. It came down to a choice between the Classic and a Groove Tubes Trio. In the end, I chose the Classic. Not because of the money, but because of the tones. The money didn't matter. The Trio was only $200 more than the Classic, but the Classic could give me all the same tones the Trio could, and more! Plus, I could save the settings in the Classic.
Clean or dirty, ADA had it all. The only thing I've seen that might come close are the Synergy systems I see now.
(It took almost 30 years for anyone to catch up to ADA)
Harley 8)
I've been eyeing those synergy preamps down for a while. Drooling. Perfect for someone like me that has limited space and wants ALL the tones. Big reason I got the MP1.
MikeB's clips. Safe to assume no IRs were used and we are just hearing raw preamp signal. I would have done it a bit more old fashioned through a poweramp and cab with an SM57 hooked up to my interface. There is definitely a difference in the signal between the Pre clips and Post clips (quite a big one) I get his comment regarding the PRE clips sounding like it was like listening through a wall, I hear that too in the clips. The signal seems a LOT less compressed in the POST clips, easy to tell even with the non conventional approach to recording it.
Honestly I kinda like the compressed nasally aspect of the MP1. I'm still going through this forum and figuring out what all the "popular opinions" are on different aspects of this amp. But "to each his own" is ultimately what it comes down to. The ultimate comparison will always be playing them rather than just listening. AS far as the MDRT mod the way I currently view it is what kind of trade offs of the original tone are happening and if I want to lose a certain aspect of the original tone for good. Been trying to find threads with more clips but would love to hear more feedback relating to the tonal trade offs of doing the MDRT without any other mods having been done. I'm still searching through this forum to find the answer to that question but I also have many other questions I'm looking into as well.
I did find this video on youtube (link below) that does a pre MDRT and post MDRT comparison, the only thing is that it's got the 3TM done to it which is fine because in his video (even though it sounds like he recorded it with his phone) you can tell a difference in how fuller the tone is compared to the preamp without the MDRT. Ideally I'd like to hear a comparison w/o the 3TM but this comparison does help. Still in the process of looking.
Link to youtube vid mentioned above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSuATPcsWs
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Hey BJ,
You might want to ask MikeB about that directly. A lot of the clips posted here are done with preamps patched through a Microcab, some may even have an Ampulator in between that. Then again, there are a lot of posts here that are the MP-1, (or other ADA preamp), through the poweramp section of a head, and a mic'ed cab too.
My personal favorite way of recording my ADA gear is mic'ed cabs mixed with Microcabs direct, and blended. I seem to have a lot more control over the final mix that way. It's a HUGE sound for guitar.
From what I'm hearing, the MDRT will give your amp more "air." It will be a crisper tone for sure if you EQ it that way, it doesn't lose any of the warmth, but it does increase the upper mids,(Presence) and highs. The most obvious difference is that it has a lot more clarity. Notes are more articulate.
In the story I recalled above, I left out the fact that what sold me on the Classic was the clean tones. They are more In-your-face, than the clean tones in the Trio, and there were more to choose from. I think that is what separates a good amp from a mediocre one. You can make any amp distort, but how good does it sound clean? Can it put a rise in your Levi's with it's clean tone as well as it's overdriven one?
I will get a MDRT in a stock MP-1, but I'll keep one original as well. As for the 3TM, I'm not decided about the MDRT. It has a ridiculous amount of gain as it is so it doesn't need more. It could probably benefit from a better EQ though.
Harley 8)
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Hey BJ,
You might want to ask MikeB about that directly. A lot of the clips posted here are done with preamps patched through a Microcab, some may even have an Ampulator in between that. Then again, there are a lot of posts here that are the MP-1, (or other ADA preamp), through the poweramp section of a head, and a mic'ed cab too.
My personal favorite way of recording my ADA gear is mic'ed cabs mixed with Microcabs direct, and blended. I seem to have a lot more control over the final mix that way. It's a HUGE sound for guitar.
From what I'm hearing, the MDRT will give your amp more "air." It will be a crisper tone for sure if you EQ it that way, it doesn't lose any of the warmth, but it does increase the upper mids,(Presence) and highs. The most obvious difference is that it has a lot more clarity. Notes are more articulate.
In the story I recalled above, I left out the fact that what sold me on the Classic was the clean tones. They are more In-your-face, than the clean tones in the Trio, and there were more to choose from. I think that is what separates a good amp from a mediocre one. You can make any amp distort, but how good does it sound clean? Can it put a rise in your Levi's with it's clean tone as well as it's overdriven one?
I will get a MDRT in a stock MP-1, but I'll keep one original as well. As for the 3TM, I'm not decided about the MDRT. It has a ridiculous amount of gain as it is so it doesn't need more. It could probably benefit from a better EQ though.
Harley 8)
Thanks for the input! For my tastes and what I like to play the MP1 has more than enough gain than I need. One of the reasons I don't think MikeB is using an IR is that the POST clips sound extremely similar to the raw preamp signal from my 5153 6l6. Those have a preamp out on the back which I can run into my interface and through my DAW.
I was lookin at MP1 classics and I saw there is a speaker emulation button on the back for the recording outputs. Pretty slick. The cleans on the MP1 are great as they are, so the classic must be fantastic.
I think I'll sleep on the MDRT. It's currently not apart of the budget but not gonna rule out adding it at some point, we'll see how things go. For now I think it's caps/refresh.
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Hey BJ, No IRs used in Mikes clips, IIRC he used his ADA GCS3 in the MP-1 loop, he has it mounted in his rack to use when he needs it for recording. He also uses a Gmaj2 between his MP-1 and poweramp (B200s). He has since bought a US MP-1 as well, swapped in his old 240v transformer and is keeping it stock for now. There's a post by Systomatic Chaos (SC) re why he prefers the stock transformer creamy and warmth were 2 of the words he used I think. Mikes MP-1 is the one I bought new when they first came out, I used it for a gizzilian gigs over many years and sold it to Mike when I bought my first MP-2 (as soon as they came out), there's some clips of it from when I had it (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1090.0) before any mods were done. Mike put in a new stock tube board, did the battery, noise and rear jack mods and MDRT so that's what it is today and in his clips. He's got a boogie SPAX7 in v1 followed by a Mullard short plate in v2. He and I also did some comparisons of running his GMaj2 in parallel or in line as the GMaj2 digitises (A/Ds) the signal on input and I like to keep the signal analogue all the way through. It made a difference but then he lost all the CC stuff (e.g. master vol control) from the GMaj2 so he went back to chaining it (MP-1 > GMaj2 > B200s). The big difference we noticed when he put in the MDRT was how much it opens up the dynamics, seems less compressed and more articulate. In the end it's a taste thing, and, if you can, have 2 units, 1 stock and 1 MDRT as he has done.
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Hey Richard,
Thanks for chiming in! It's been so long since Mike posted those clips, that I couldn't quite remember the set up, but I knew it wasn't direct.
I'm going to go find those posts from Systematic Chaos and re-read those. He was very thorough about his comparisons, and I had forgotten about those too! See what happens when I go absent from the Forum for an extended period? :lol: Now I have to go do my research, thanks for reminding me of that.
@BJ, Yes, the Classic does have the direct outs on the back with a choice of two cab simulations, but I've never used them. The truth about that is: they really don't sound that good plugging in that way. It sounds very much like it would if you plugged in your guitar to an overdrive pedal, then went direct to a mixing board. Keep in mind, the electric guitar is not a complete instrument by itself, it needs an amplifier to make it a complete instrument, because the amplifier has the preamp, power amp, and speakers. That's the basic instrument. Remove any one of those elements, and you have to compensate with some sort electronic simulation, or you end up with a sound that is missing something.
The Classic is also a different sounding preamp from the original MP-1. It doesn't have as much warmth as the original, and the Chorus is much more subtle than the original, so when it comes to using it, a warmer power amp is definitely a plus. In an A/B comparison I did a while back, I found I liked the Classic tones when I used it with the B200S, and Microtube 100 poweramps more than I did with the Microtube 200, and I still use the Microcab II with either of those setups. It also sounds great with my Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp as well, as long as I dial the Presence down to a low setting. This is because the MP-1 Classic sounds more like a vintage Marshall preamp from the 70's to my ears. It's definitely NOT the same as the original.
Harley 8)
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Hey BJ, No IRs used in Mikes clips, IIRC he used his ADA GCS3 in the MP-1 loop, he has it mounted in his rack to use when he needs it for recording. He also uses a Gmaj2 between his MP-1 and poweramp (B200s). He has since bought a US MP-1 as well, swapped in his old 240v transformer and is keeping it stock for now. There's a post by Systomatic Chaos (SC) re why he prefers the stock transformer creamy and warmth were 2 of the words he used I think. Mikes MP-1 is the one I bought new when they first came out, I used it for a gizzilian gigs over many years and sold it to Mike when I bought my first MP-2 (as soon as they came out), there's some clips of it from when I had it (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=1090.0) before any mods were done. Mike put in a new stock tube board, did the battery, noise and rear jack mods and MDRT so that's what it is today and in his clips. He's got a boogie SPAX7 in v1 followed by a Mullard short plate in v2. He and I also did some comparisons of running his GMaj2 in parallel or in line as the GMaj2 digitises (A/Ds) the signal on input and I like to keep the signal analogue all the way through. It made a difference but then he lost all the CC stuff (e.g. master vol control) from the GMaj2 so he went back to chaining it (MP-1 > GMaj2 > B200s). The big difference we noticed when he put in the MDRT was how much it opens up the dynamics, seems less compressed and more articulate. In the end it's a taste thing, and, if you can, have 2 units, 1 stock and 1 MDRT as he has done.
Yes! Creamy and warm is how i'd describe the stock sound too. really creamy if you ask me and I love it. I'm gonna say the GCS3 was not connected during these clips but it makes sense, after re-reading his post I think he was going for the comparison in the preamp signal. The POST clips don't sounds like they've gone through a cab, cab sim, or IR at all. I am with you on keeping the analog signal as is without digitizing it. I'm kind of a purist in that regard as well. Don't like too many things muddling up the signal.
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Hey Richard,
Thanks for chiming in! It's been so long since Mike posted those clips, that I couldn't quite remember the set up, but I knew it wasn't direct.
I'm going to go find those posts from Systematic Chaos and re-read those. He was very thorough about his comparisons, and I had forgotten about those too! See what happens when I go absent from the Forum for an extended period? :lol: Now I have to go do my research, thanks for reminding me of that.
@BJ, Yes, the Classic does have the direct outs on the back with a choice of two cab simulations, but I've never used them. The truth about that is: they really don't sound that good plugging in that way. It sounds very much like it would if you plugged in your guitar to an overdrive pedal, then went direct to a mixing board. Keep in mind, the electric guitar is not a complete instrument by itself, it needs an amplifier to make it a complete instrument, because the amplifier has the preamp, power amp, and speakers. That's the basic instrument. Remove any one of those elements, and you have to compensate with some sort electronic simulation, or you end up with a sound that is missing something.
The Classic is also a different sounding preamp from the original MP-1. It doesn't have as much warmth as the original, and the Chorus is much more subtle than the original, so when it comes to using it, a warmer power amp is definitely a plus. In an A/B comparison I did a while back, I found I liked the Classic tones when I used it with the B200S, and Microtube 100 poweramps more than I did with the Microtube 200, and I still use the Microcab II with either of those setups. It also sounds great with my Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp as well, as long as I dial the Presence down to a low setting. This is because the MP-1 Classic sounds more like a vintage Marshall preamp from the 70's to my ears. It's definitely NOT the same as the original.
Harley 8)
I was wondering if the cab sim on the classic was decent or not. Interesting that it had that option for how old it is. I'm not the least bit surprised that it is antiquated.
I have a quick quetion that is not quite related to this thread but I'm int he process of building a rack set up. I have an SKB, 4 single rack slots. I have a Furman rack power conditioner. Littereally the only gripe I have with the MP1 is the power switch being on the backside. I've been using it outside of the rack since I got it but now that i got it in the rack I gotta get behind it and reach back there to flip it which a super pain the ass with my bedroom set up. Would it be ok to leave the MP1 in the on position and just have it turn on when I turn my power conditioner on or is this something I need to avoid doing?
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Hey BJ,
Of course it's alright to leave it on and power up your rack with the Furman. I do that with my rack gear all the time, and not just the Preamps, but effects processors too. the only thing you DON'T want to do that with is any power amp.
For powering up your rack: Turn on your Furman power supply then, turn on the main power switch on your power amp. Let it warm up for at least 15 seconds, then flip the standby switch on the power amp.
To shut down your rack: Flip the Standby switch, then turn off the main power switch in the power amp, then turn of the whole rack with the Furman power switch.
Follow that procedure every time and you won't have any problems with your rack.
As for the cab sims on the back of the Classic, we're getting into a grey area here. It has two options: Closed back 4x12, and Open back 2x12.
(It's not as antiquated as you might think. The fact is; the MP-1 Classic was the last rack mounted preamp offering from ADA before they disappeared in 1994).
Some folks might like the simulated mic'ed cabs from the preamp direct to the board, but with the sims coming from the preamp itself, your limited to one or the other. You can't even turn them off to go direct that way. This is why I prefer to use the Microcab II. I'm speaking strictly for myself here. I like to use the Microcab II after the poweramp and before the Split-Stacks. The Microcab allows me to dial in the mic position relative to the center of the cone, and dial in the amount of low end Thump I want with it, plus it has a lot more cab simulations to choose from. Most of the time, I don't use any of the cab sims in a live situation, I just leave all the cab selection buttons in the out position and just go direct that way, and blend that in with the mic'ed cabs from the mixing desk. It's kind of a generic direct setting, but it works for me. I've never used the direct outs from any of my preamps into a board or DAW.
I like adding the character of the power amp in with the direct signal.
Harley 8)
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Hey BJ,
Of course it's alright to leave it on and power up your rack with the Furman. I do that with my rack gear all the time, and not just the Preamps, but effects processors too. the only thing you DON'T want to do that with is any power amp.
For powering up your rack: Turn on your Furman power supply then, turn on the main power switch on your power amp. Let it warm up for at least 15 seconds, then flip the standby switch on the power amp.
To shut down your rack: Flip the Standby switch, then turn off the main power switch in the power amp, then turn of the whole rack with the Furman power switch.
Follow that procedure every time and you won't have any problems with your rack.
As for the cab sims on the back of the Classic, we're getting into a grey area here. It has two options: Closed back 4x12, and Open back 2x12.
(It's not as antiquated as you might think. The fact is; the MP-1 Classic was the last rack mounted preamp offering from ADA before they disappeared in 1994).
Some folks might like the simulated mic'ed cabs from the preamp direct to the board, but with the sims coming from the preamp itself, your limited to one or the other. You can't even turn them off to go direct that way. This is why I prefer to use the Microcab II. I'm speaking strictly for myself here. I like to use the Microcab II after the poweramp and before the Split-Stacks. The Microcab allows me to dial in the mic position relative to the center of the cone, and dial in the amount of low end Thump I want with it, plus it has a lot more cab simulations to choose from. Most of the time, I don't use any of the cab sims in a live situation, I just leave all the cab selection buttons in the out position and just go direct that way, and blend that in with the mic'ed cabs from the mixing desk. It's kind of a generic direct setting, but it works for me. I've never used the direct outs from any of my preamps into a board or DAW.
I like adding the character of the power amp in with the direct signal.
Harley 8)
Good to know! Thank you for the explanation, that makes things a helluva lot easier.
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It seems the 2 main things included in the classic from the MP-2 is the stereo parallel loop :thumb-up: and the cab sims. I use MP-2 and find the cab sims are very useful and sound quite good. I use the 2 x 12 open back option mostly, seems to sound better than the 4 x 12 sealed back, for me anyway. So I use them direct into desk for recording and also in my live rig when I use the Messa P112 bass cabs which have a piezo tweeter. In a larger stage setup I'd use the direct outs > amp for split cabs and the cab sim outs into the FOH desk, mic the cabs and blend it all together. While the MP-2 cab sims aren't particularly adjustable like the microcab, GCS 3/6 etc. they do a decent job IMHO. I suspect they were also inspired by ADA's other cab sims e.g. microcab etc). One of ADA's first cab sim(ish) is the MP-1 headphone out, it's pretty basic, just some caps to take off a bit of top end (which is the first fundamental thing a cab sim does).
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Hey Richard,
In the MP-1 Classic, It also has the Noise Gate as well as the "Brown" Tube voicing. It also didn't include the XLR outs from the Direct outputs like the MP-2 does. There are also a few other internal things that make it different from the original MP-1.
In respects to the MP-1 headphone output, in the manual, it tells you to connect a parametric EQ to the headphone out, and gives you EQ settings on it to emulate a mic'ed cab.
Harley 8)
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Hey Harley
I didn't remember that about the MP-1 manual, must read it again. There are some posts (from quite a while ago) where MJMP advised about the caps on the HP outs. And yes noise gate is the other addition from MP-1. So you don't get the XLR outs, didn't know that, I don't use them often (if at all) anyway. Though they make sense for a live DI plug in, connecting to stage box.
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In respects to the MP-1 headphone output, in the manual, it tells you to connect a parametric EQ to the headphone out, and gives you EQ settings on it to emulate a mic'ed cab.
Harley 8)
Yeah I do remember reading that too, but I can't find it in one of the manuals.