MP-2 Voice 3 Fat Clean

[rnolan]

So this MP-2 voice (3 fat clean) is confusing me.  Basically, I was trying to create a patch in between clean and dirty.
So I like voice 1 crystal clean and voice 2 spanky clean, but I wanted a sound were it broke up a bit when hit harder (I spose like a fender twin or whatever).  What I found was, while I got closer to what I wanted by turning up the drive, I had to turn the master way down (so the patch blended with my other patches (volume wise) which are all around master 45(ish) depending.  I found, that even with master off = 0 I still had way too much level (WTF) master 0/off should be no sound . And also the drive clip was going red (never had that before).  So I kind of got a tone I liked (with high (85-90) drive settings), but I couldn't get the master low enough to be an appropriate volume compared to the other patches.  Currently I have the master on 5 and it's too loud (compared to other patches).

And if you check my pdf of MP-2 patch settings sorted by voice. Voice 2 & 3 are only used once in the factory settings.

Once you move to voice 4 vintage brown, the eq in the tube circuit changes markedly and your in dirty territory.  I thought ok can I turn the gain down on voice 4 and get there, but no it sounded so different and not what I'm chasing.

So it seems this is a voice element of the MP-2 that needs attention.

I'm working (hopefully) with MJMP, Gregg and a friend (who's helping reverse engineer the EPROM code) to hopefully create some new MP-2 voices. There's no reason we can't have another 10 voices (or more).  What may be harder is to make the voices adjustable (but would be nice).  When you select a voice, it adjusts a bunch of things in the tube circuit (and elsewhere ??), e.g. voice 1-6 have only drive, not OD2 (which comes with 7-10), and the eq applied between tube triodes (there are 4 triodes (2 per tube)) is changed (this is kind of like how boogie an fender twins work, the eq stages are incorporated in the gain (tube) stage, but also partly what makes them, particularly boogie, hard to dial in (small changes make allot of difference).  MP-1 and MP-2 have the main eq after the gain stage.  But a bunch of eq is applied within their respective tube circuits to achieve the voice/tone.

[Harley Hexxe]

Now you're getting the picture I've put up a long time ago about the lack of dynamics in the MP-2. Picking harder doesn't give you the results you'd get from a tube amp. The MP-1 and MP-1 Classic will do that though.

All I can suggest is that you go through the whole setting and bring down some of the EQ they've put into the programs and see what you get, and take the compressor off of it. You may also want to experiment with OD1 and OD2.

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, it's never bothered me before but now I want to use those kinds of sounds.  That particular patch I did notice it had some hefty eq on it and compression.  I turned the compressor off.  What really confused me was master=0 should be no sound, but no it was still too loud .

So it's only got Drive (OD1), you don't get the OD2 options until voice 7 warm high gain.  I need to futz with it some more, but when I went to voice 4 vintage brown, the eq in the tube circuit and dynamics changed totally, basically dirt rock mode and I want something in between.

I will try voice 4 and see if I can make it what I want.  To use voice 3, I'd have to reprogram all my master vol levels.  Seriously, with the master vol on 5, it's still to loud for other patches with master on 45-50.

I'm hoping the boffins can work out how the voices "work" and we can tinker with them, i.e. add some more.  They are all controlled by the firmware, so what gets changed in the tube circuit when you select each voice ?? etc.

Another sound I want to chase is that Neil Young sound.

See how we go.  I'll try a few ideas with other voices.

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Richard,

 I know that Neil Young played through a tweed Fender Deluxe I believe it was, in the studio. Live, he had Fender Bandmasters on stage, and he used a fuzz pedal through these amps.

 Keep in mind you seem to be trying to get the full amplifier sound with just a preamp here. Simply put, there are certain sounds we can't get with just a preamp alone, no matter who makes the preamp.

  Boffins?!? I have no idea what that means unless I should be listening for the Oompah Loompahs to start singing at any moment 

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, you make a very poignant point, allot of that fender tweed sound (and others like it) comes from the power amp stage and of course, we use clean transparent power amps (on the whole).

Boffins = MJMP, Gregg and Laurence (not a member, my singers partner and likes HEX firmware code).  We have a bit of reverse engineering going on to attempt to do a new and improved MP-2 EPROM (and maybe some mods).  As usual, it's not as simple as I would like LoL.

Try a blank(ish) patch in your MP-2, change the voice from 3 to 4, there's a big eq difference and v4 gets more compressed.  I want to create something that has the relative openness of voice 1, 2 & 3 but clean up voice 4 a little (something in between).  But as MJMP said, the ADAs aren't so great at "some" things normal tube amps do easily.

So I also just found out (from MJMP) that the MP-2 doesn't have OD2 like MP-1.  The OD2 in MP-2 is software driven apparently.

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Richard,

   That was my point a long time ago about the MP-2, it just doesn't deliver the natural dynamics that you have is a tube amp. The MP-1 and the Classic both do a much better job of it, but then you have to pair it with the right power amp to get a more accurate representation of it. The best combination I've found was using the Classic with the MT100.

   The MP-1 is good with its dynamics alone, but it still doesn't complete the picture by itself. It's kind of funny, but I still haven't tried the MP-1 through a MT200 yet. I can say that using the MT200 with the MP-2 works, but it isn't my favorite combination. I actually like the B200S better. When I get to repairing my MT100s, I'll swap them around with all my preamps and then see which appeals to my ears more. There is a very big tonal difference between the MT100 and MT200.

   Of course, I should point out that at the time I was using the MT100 with the Classic, I was also playing through a Fender mid-sized 2x12" cab loaded with Altec-Lansing G17H speakers, so that also has a lot to do with the sound as well.

BTW, I did a lot of that experimentation with the MP-2 OD settings years ago, and I know how abrupt the settings jump in gain levels. That's one of the reasons it's harder to dial in certain tones, and the point/counter point EQ section just adds to that.