ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please note "Depot New Registrations Temporarily Suspended" Please see discussions for how to register.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup  (Read 1234 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« on: Time Format »

Hello  :headbanger:

So as some of you might now, I own several preamps.  I generally have a few racked at a time, but I don't possess the ability to switch from one to another easily.  Now I could do this with a A/B pedal which I own.  However that's only two at once.  What If I wanted to switch between three?

And even with this, which ever preamp I use, I always have them run into the rest of my setup.  So after preamp the signal will always run into my Rocktron Hush, an EQ, Rocktron Intellipitch and then Boss SX700.

So if I switch preamps I will also need to route the output through the rest of the gear each time I switch.  I have no idea about patch bays, but does anyone know a good solution for trying to achieve what I am after and maintain the highest quality of signal?
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

bunkyloo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 202
  • Tones for days with my ADA's !
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Gerry, I use a rocktron patchmate the older red one stereo or mono ins and outs. kind of hard to find but works great. the newer ones as far as I can see are only mono. loop 8 I think there called.
the original one is awesome again pretty rare.
Logged

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4335
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry

I still have my rocktron patchmate (the old one), if you want I could sell it to you. Don't use it anymore as I build one myself.
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry

I still have my rocktron patchmate (the old one), if you want I could sell it to you. Don't use it anymore as I build one myself.

Had a look at the old patchmate.  Looks insanely complicated.  Had a flick through the manual as well.  I failed to see the common output that basically allows you to send what ever loop you have selected to the rest of your equipment at the end of the chain.  Could you explain how it works a bit MJMP  :dunno:?

I have spotted handmade analogue looper pedals for quite cheap.  5 loops, 1 input > send/return for each loop and then a common output.  Now I know what to look for these seem like the solution.  But do I want a floor unit or do I want something in a rack that I can press a button to switch loop??????  I think I probably would prefer the button push as opposed to the foot option.  This is for studio use after all.  Live I have different setup.

Thanks for the recommendations guys  :thumb-up:
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5304
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, you could do it with a mixer and midi patches  :dunno: , e.g. split the guitar signal across all the preamp inputs, return all the preamps to the mixer, run the mixer into the other gear (or use Fx sends/returns) and make a few patches where each preamp is set to what you want for that patch (are al the preamp midi switchable?).  Or use 2 mixers, one to send the guitar signal to the preamps (or make Y leads and use the AB switch (does it do A+B as well?) to feed the preamps).  IIRC you have a couple of mixers so you could potentially do it this way and have patches that basically zero the preamps you don't want etc.  I know this is maybe not quite what you were looking for but you could make it work this way with some fluffing around.Depending on the mixer, if it has channel mutes (like my Behringer UB2442X FX pro which also has 2 x mon sends and 2 x fx sends), I'd run the clean guitar signal into ch1, use Mon sends 1 & 2 to feed 2 x Y leads (provides 4 signals for 4 preamps) but not assign ch1 to any output bus (so you won't hear it), return all preamps to 2 chs each (pan L/R), assign each of these to Fx 1&2 sends to feed your other gadgets (or use subgroups instead but don't send them to the main mix, just use their individual outs), return the other gadgets to chs, then use the ch mutes to turn the preamp returns on/off. I know this is more complicated, but you probably have the stuff to do this already  :dunno: and you can combine preamps (or not).
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hi Richard,

I thought about that idea you know, but my mixers are currently away in the band rehearsal room and I can't access them due to lockdown restrictions.  They are also in use over there.  I get that it would have been a solution though.

The patchmate might be the ticket or else the looper pedal.
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4335
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

The patchmate has 9 independent loops, so you need to connect them together with a small patch cable to make one big loop. This is done for more flexibility so you make different configurations. But if you want one long loop you just  connect each loop after the other. You can also use one loop to switch amps. But it's programmable and midi capable with both program and control change and it has a build in hush which is also has programmable threshold.

A floor pedal is not ideal for rack gear IMO, you will have a lot of long cables this way.
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

The patchmate has 9 independent loops, so you need to connect them together with a small patch cable to make one big loop. This is done for more flexibility so you make different configurations. But if you want one long loop you just  connect each loop after the other. You can also use one loop to switch amps. But it's programmable and midi capable with both program and control change and it has a build in hush which is also has programmable threshold.

A floor pedal is not ideal for rack gear IMO, you will have a lot of long cables this way.

I was thinking of using the a floor unit on top of a desk beside my rack  :thumb-up:  but I still haven't decided.

If I had a patch mate can I have his:

Guitar > loop 1 Preamp 1
          > loop 2 Preamp 2
          > loop 3 preamp 3
          > loop 4 empty
          > loop 5 empty
          > loop 6 empty
          > loop 7 empty
          > loop 8 empty
          > loop 9 empty
                                 > output (to effects)

And then be able to select any of those preamps individually and route to the effects at the end of the chain?
 


         
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4335
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Yes and you can also put the effects in the loops.
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hmmmm if I was to set it up the way I mentioned before how would I do this?

I don't see a common output on the unit.  All I can see is output for each loop.

You said it was noisy too right?
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4335
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Well each loop has an IN send return OUT, to connect the loops together you use a small patch cable and connect the OUT of the first loop to second loop IN etc... the last loop you use is the OUT going to whatever you need.

The unit itself is not noisy but sometimes you can hear the switch bounce of the relais contacts when a relais gets switched on or off.
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

So what would be the best type of patch cables between straight jacks and right angles?  I nearly bought some right angled ones but I now I am thinking, for a patch bay it might be better for straight jacks.

Any thoughts people?
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

bunkyloo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 202
  • Tones for days with my ADA's !
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

straight jacks without a doubt you will plug a lot of stuff in just for each unit especially if running to keep a stereo signal. What did you end up with getting. The rocktron old red one is my favorite still.voodo labs makes a couple as well.
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2016
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

straight jacks without a doubt you will plug a lot of stuff in just for each unit especially if running to keep a stereo signal. What did you end up with getting. The rocktron old red one is my favorite still.voodo labs makes a couple as well.

Those rocktron patchmates both old and new are crazy money for that functionality.  There is an old red patchmate on ebay right now for sale in the UK for £450 dollars.  That is roughly $602.

No way Hosay!

So I bought a generic 48 port patchbay for £20..  Hopefully this solves the issue.  Been learning how to hook it up.  I read about it on and off for months and it give me a head ache but I finally get what I should be doing with it.  There really needs to be a setup guide of this for dummies online and rather than someone talk through it someone visually show in the context of a guitarist how you would go about setting it up.
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

Soloist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Switching Preamps in my Rack setup
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

Hey there Gerry! The simplest solution would be a Morley ABC pedal. I used to use that for switching between 3 preamps. The next solution is to get a Ground Control Pro and use midi to switch between the three. You will need a rack mixer for either solution.  Best of luck!
Logged
Live Rig:
Fractal Audio FM3 ver 1.06
Boss GT 100 ver.2.11
Switching- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2 - Radial Engineering Pro D2 Stereo Direct Box
Power - Live Wire Power Conditioning Distribution System
Monitors  - (2) FRFR-112 Headrush Stage monitors
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
ADA gear: MP1- MP2 - MT200
Studio gear- way too much to list.
Pages: [1]   Go Up