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[Soloist]

HAHAHAHA!  I think we have all been there. One time I walked out on the stage and was suppose to start an intro and WTF? No sound, took me a minute to realize I had forgotten to select an amp on my switcher. After that I always program the first song of a set to default on start up.

[rabidgerry]

I remember freaking out at Richard's place recently.  No sound from the amp!  Power on, all the leads connected, lights are on.  Why oh why do i rely on this bloody fragile antique gear? How much is this going to cost?  Then i notice that i haven't actually plugged the lead into the guitar.
Combination of  and 

Mike we've all done that............................oh no, I wasn't supposed to admit that right 

One time at a gig I was using my Crate Power Block Amps.  I was using one at each side of the stage so because of this I only needed to use each amp in mono as opposed to the stereo as they are stereo amps themselves.  Well When you connect into this amp and use it in mono you need to plug into the left side for mono use.  Ok so uess what happened when I turned all my shit on and I had no sound?  On each amp I f**king well plugged into the right side on each amp!  And I sat and wondered why I had no sound.  I basically didn't realise this until weeks after what had happened.  I managed to play the gig with stupidly low output by switching the amps to stereo mode which allowed some sound to come out via the right channel but of course it was really low because the impedance of the cabs I was using made for very low output and therefore the efficiency was like a quarter of what I should have been getting!  The sound man had to pretty much power me entirely via the PA.  I basically had to play th entire gig with no sound all because I plugged into the right channel on both amps!  It was a really important show for us as well and if I blew that gig we'd have embarrassed oursleves!  Thankfully we ploughed through and delivered a good show!  But yeah right channel...............

[rabidgerry]

Remember I had a noise issue?  I can't remember where I posted that topic, but anyways it developed into this thread so I got a power conditioner.

Well all I can say is I still got noise.  Even with everything hooked up to the PC.  Any ideas guys?  I really do not want to buy a furman PC if it isn't going to solve the issue, and I don't think it will to be honest.

The noise is a loud kinda hum,  not as low sounding as a hum you get when you put your guitar next to the amp, that's a different avoidable hum altogether, this one is a constant, even with humbuckers.  It was really bad last band practice.  Not convinced it's my gear if I'm honest.  As I think it comes and goes.  It's doing my head in!  Any ideas?

[MarshallJMP]

Can you explain your setup, so what do you use in the chain and how it's all connected?

[rabidgerry]

Guitar > GT5 Input > effects send > preamp > effects return > GT5 Output > Amp Input > Amp Output > Cabs

Nothing of the ordinary.

If I turn the pre in the loop off the noise is gone, but that is only because it is clean.  I'm pretty sure distorted tones from the pedal have the same noise.

What is strange is the noise is not always there.  I remember one time I fooled myself thinking trying different plug outlets would help the problem, but it doesn't seem to matter now.

My FX unit is the only unit not connected to PC.  So to test it I moved it very close to the rack so I could plug it into the PC and have everything powered via the PC.  No difference.  I know the PC is not a great one, but I really do not think buying a furman is going to take away this noise, it's so loud when not playing and I have yet to come across anything any piece of gear that can just solve an noise issue just like that.  I am almost certain I have played my gear in the same room without the noise, just a tiny bit of acceptable hiss.  It's something in my room but wtf it is I have no idea.  And if it's not in my room it's in the building where we practice.

I can't for a while now as I'm visiting Scotland for a few days this week, but when I get back I shall record the noise.

I thought perhaps it was my gear using the same sockets as the PA in the room and mixers, but I moved to a completely different set of sockets and I still had the noise.

I f**king HATE NOISE!

[Kim]

I f**king HATE NOISE!

Did you try lifting a Ground? 

[MarshallJMP]

Is it hum or hiss you hear ?

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Gang,

   I've been reading this entire thread from the beginning, and trying to formulate the possible culprits in RG's rack.
   For one thing, I noticed a post by MJMP earlier in this thread about the rack cabling, where he recommends running the power to one side with MIDI, and the Audio on the other. I disagree with this

   Run the power cables on the left side, audio on the right, and all control cables, (i.e. MIDI, Effects switching), out the center of the rack. I believe it's a bad idea to run DC and AC cables along side each other. so I isolate them. Along this same line of thinking, I would recommend any loose cable on the floor such as the guitar cables, MIDI cables, etc. should not be coiled on the floor. I know it's neater that way, but coiling audio cables even though they are shielded, will create an induction field and this will introduce hum. The same thing will happen if you run audio cables along side any DC voltage cables including MIDI, so always try to route them apart from each other, and if they have to come in close proximity to each other, then have them intersect each other rather than have them parallel at all possible points.

   The hum RG is experiencing sounds to me like ground loop hum. This is commonly caused in racks when using gear from different manufacturers. Not all companies ground their products the same way. so there can be an issue because of this. a few things I do when I'm building a rack to help prevent this is:
  Cover the rack rails with electrical tape on both sides, and use the tip of an Exacto knife to cut out the holes for the rack screws. Just cut them out big enough for the screws to thread in cleanly.
  Use the small, flat rubber feet on the underside of each rack unit to help keep them isolated from each other. These are readily available, and have adhesive already applied to them.
  Leave a slight gap between rack units in the rack so that the front panels do not come in contact with each other. IF it's not possible to do this, then again, electrical tape is your friend. Apply a strip of tape to the underside of each unit with the edge of it seated flush with the bottom edge of the face panel to get the isolation between each unit.
  Use nylon isolation washers with your rack mounting screws, as this will eliminate the common ground in the rack rails.

   These little tricks may or may not help, but it certainly won't hurt anything. Without seeing your rack system, and being able to get my hands on it, it's difficult to pinpoint where the hum is coming from.

    The older Forum members would remember an essay I posted in the old Forum about rack building, complete with pictures at various stages of the build from start to finish. That was pretty comprehensive in regards to minimizing ground loop hum. It seems I may have to write another one like that and include pics and possibly a few short videos if I can manage it with my phone, then post it here.
   Racks can be a blessing or a curse. The bigger racks get, the more chances of problems can occur, but there is always a solution.

   Does anyone remember Joey's, (4x12), rack hum problem? That one was a mind-phukker

    Harley

[Kim]

My bassist recently had an issue with all that noise.  (ART rack preamp/fx unit > Behringer bass head)  I mentioned a Ground Lift to him, and he tried it with success.   So...I had to mention the Ground Lift here.   

The older Forum members would remember an essay I posted in the old Forum about rack building, complete with pictures at various stages of the build from start to finish. That was pretty comprehensive in regards to minimizing ground loop hum. It seems I may have to write another one like that and include pics and possibly a few short videos if I can manage it with my phone, then post it here.

That my Friend, would be an awesome topic to have here. 

[rabidgerry]

Is it hum or hiss you hear ?

When the noise I have issues with there it's closer to hum.  Defo not a hiss.  But it doesn't sound like the hum you get when you place your guitar real close to your amp.

I f**king HATE NOISE!

Did you try lifting a Ground? 

I dunno how to do that, only on equipment that has a ground lift switch (like my old Randal solid state head I used to use). 

I know on my FX unit, the third centre prong of the plugs are plastic and seem to have no earth wire??  It's like that on all the Boss GT pedals I have ever owned.

Also randomly the first MP1 I bought, did not have the earth wire connected to the plug.  And I just left it like that.  But have since sold it as it sounded like poo (and then bought an 3TM and another standard MP1).

   The hum RG is experiencing sounds to me like ground loop hum. This is commonly caused in racks when using gear from different manufacturers. Not all companies ground their products the same way. so there can be an issue because of this. a few things I do when I'm building a rack to help prevent this is:
  Cover the rack rails with electrical tape on both sides, and use the tip of an Exacto knife to cut out the holes for the rack screws. Just cut them out big enough for the screws to thread in cleanly.
  Use the small, flat rubber feet on the underside of each rack unit to help keep them isolated from each other. These are readily available, and have adhesive already applied to them.
  Leave a slight gap between rack units in the rack so that the front panels do not come in contact with each other. IF it's not possible to do this, then again, electrical tape is your friend. Apply a strip of tape to the underside of each unit with the edge of it seated flush with the bottom edge of the face panel to get the isolation between each unit.
  Use nylon isolation washers with your rack mounting screws, as this will eliminate the common ground in the rack rails.

Ok I could try some of these, put perhaps a ground lift is also something that needs doin.  I noticed my poweramp comes with those little rubber feet you mentioned to stop it touching whatever is beneath it.

I actually think I am using nylon washers already.  Tape will also help then yes?

Do I need something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm05u6vlO7E
and send one of my signal from my stereo FX unit through it, then have that come out the other side and go to the stereo guitar amp I use?  I will admit this guy has buzz, not hum.

I'm going to mention all the plugs I have that have ground pins,
Power Amp
Pre Amp
Power Conditioner
FX Pedal as far as I know has only a live and neutral wire.

Do we still think I have ground loop issue?

here is another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg


this noise sounds nothing like the noise I get which is much lower in frequency, this guy has buzz, not hum in my opinion.

[Harley Hexxe]

Hi RG,

    Before you go investing in a hum eliminator, it might be a good idea to determine if the ground loop hum is actually the cause. You could try getting a ground lift adapter and use that on each piece of equipment, one at a time to see which one is causing the hum. Or, you could simply try going through your rig starting with the basics; i.e. Guitar, Amp, Speakers....and see if this hum is there with just the bare essentials, if not, add another piece to the signal chain. If the hum appears when you connect a certain piece to the circuit, then you'll know what the source of the noise is.
     I'm only guessing that it could be ground loop hum. As I mentioned in my post, I'm not there to get hands-on with the gear and track down the problem. I would try to eliminate all the simple possible causes first. I would even check the solder connections in the audio cables to make sure there isn't something like a loose strand of copper wire that could be laying across both leads, or even close to it. It could be something just that simple.
    The best suggestion I can make at this point is to go with the one piece at a time approach to your rig, and see at which point you begin to get the hum, then we'll try to figure out how to sort it out from there.

   Harley

[rabidgerry]

ok man good idea.

I had a look for a uk ground lift adapter for plugs and I can't find any.  I've seen the american version though.

[MarshallJMP]

Rg, didnt' you say that the GT5 didn't have a ground (or better earth) connection?

[rabidgerry]

That's correct MJMP, I can confirm it has two wires, neutral and live (blue and a brown).  This particular GT5 I rewired the plug myself as I needed the standard boss plug adapter for another GT"" Series pedal I was selling.  So that left me with a GT5 European mainland style plug on the end.  So I cut that off and stripped the wires and wired a proper UK style plug, but obviously the earth ground pin was left blank since there was only two wires.

Does this have some significance?  Let me guess no ground loop?

[MarshallJMP]

maybe not.

If you take out the GT-5 and plug the guitar straight into the preamp and plug the preamp into the power amp do you still have this noise?