ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Rack Gear => Topic started by: PrimalScream91 on June 29, 2016, 09:01:02 PM
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As I'm sure we all know, the MP-1's can be a bit... noisy.
So I'm on the hunt for a good noise suppressor/ gate, but I'm relatively new to rack gear (still using effects pedals for everything else) and I feel like I'm swimming in a crazy ocean right now! :banana-trip:
I know one of the standby's is the Rocktron HUSH units, but damn is there a lot of em to choose from! What's some of the depots suggestions for a good rack unit?
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Check out an ISP Decimator ProRack. Around $300 US new, little pricey but by far one of the best you'll find! I believe the ProRack G is their top of line model at $411 US.
Rocktron's aren't bad, just a bit touchy to set it right without squashing your tone.(Had one for a few years)
Boss NS2 is another cheaper option in pedal form that works pretty good.( I use this on a low setting for pickup noise and Tube Screamer noise only)
What effects unit are you using? I ask because the noise gate in my G Major 2 works really well also. :thumb-up:
Another option is the MP1 noise mod.
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I own
a Boss NS-50 (half rack version of like an NS2 I guess - MJMP likes the NS2 IRC)
I also own a Roctron Hush II CX
but I've never integrated these units into my rack setups. It's so much more convenient to use the onboard noise reduction of my Boss GT5.
Now I got rid of my recent ground loop problem this is all I need to have a very quiet setup and very high volume.
In the future I may implement one of those rack noise units I own, it all depends on what I can travel easiest with. The little boss half rack is a nice idea. Kinda sought after as they aren't that common. I've see then going for a lot more than I paid, I got mine cheap from the states.
Just thought I'd mention what I was using in case it helps you get an affordable unit PrimalScream91
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Soloist raises a salient point, as you are in the process of building a rack, a good rack multi FX that has noise gate (eg the TC GMaj, it will also give you master vol using a CC pedal, you'll need a midi pedal) but this is working toward the wet/dry set up you've been thinking about.
The 2 "must do" mods for the MP1 that come to mind (when/if your up for it) are the noise mod (replace old capacitors, helps allot with the noise) and the MDRT replacement transformer (really opens up the MP1 and also helps with noise).
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What effects unit are you using? I ask because the noise gate in my G Major 2 works really well also. :thumb-up:
I'm running into the front and my signal path is Wah-Phase-OD-Chorus-Delay. I'll probably integrate a Flanger and Leslie sim in later. I don't use the drive pedal much anymore unless I just want to saturate the hell out of whatever I'm playing, but it definitely contributes to the noise!
Soloist raises a salient point, as you are in the process of building a rack, a good rack multi FX that has noise gate (eg the TC GMaj, it will also give you master vol using a CC pedal, you'll need a midi pedal) but this is working toward the wet/dry set up you've been thinking about.
The 2 "must do" mods for the MP1 that come to mind (when/if your up for it) are the noise mod (replace old capacitors, helps allot with the noise) and the MDRT replacement transformer (really opens up the MP1 and also helps with noise).
I've looked at multi FX units before, but my knowledge of them begins and ends at the Alesis Quadraverb :lol:
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The Quadverb is a good unit, I still use one in my live rig, just mild delay and reverb mostly these days, BTW it has a leslie sim built in. Each to their own, but the only thing I'd run in front of the MP1 is the wah and do the rest with a stereo multi FX (lots to pick from). This will help your gain structure and keep the noise down.
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I'll definitely look more into them then!
My initial idea for a wet/dry setup would be more cumbersome anyway, i was considering an A/B box with one going straight in and another going through the board.
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I used to us an old peavey 2 button switch pedal which I rewired to be A or B or A+B
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Used the Boss NS-2 pedal for years but got it out the pedal case and build it in a 19" rack because I didn't like pedals on the floor. Then later on I used the noise gate of the 3630 compressor, 1 gate between guitar and MP-1 the second gate after the MP-1.But the 3630 wasn't quick enough and I found the Decimator pro rack G which is the best noise gate I ever owned, works perfect. Like mentioned by Soloist, not cheap but worth every penny! I set it up like my 3630 ch1 between guitar and mp-1 ch2 after the mp-1.
Never been a Hush fan. It always worked to soon or it didn't close when it had too. Really hard to set up.
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Used the Boss NS-2 pedal for years but got it out the pedal case and build it in a 19" rack because I didn't like pedals on the floor. Then later on I used the noise gate of the 3630 compressor, 1 gate between guitar and MP-1 the second gate after the MP-1.But the 3630 wasn't quick enough and I found the Decimator pro rack G which is the best noise gate I ever owned, works perfect. Like mentioned by Soloist, not cheap but worth every penny! I set it up like my 3630 ch1 between guitar and mp-1 ch2 after the mp-1.
Never been a Hush fan. It always worked to soon or it didn't close when it had too. Really hard to set up.
May be I should sell you that Boss NS-50 mjmp. The (half) rack version perhaps a little better than the NS-2. I guess you don't need one though since you have the decimator. I had a G-string pedal decimator. Good but in my experience, was no better than any other "good" gate. The tracking guitar element was good, but at that point I didn't realise other gates do that.
As for the hush, bought it, never used it. Perhaps I should set it up in my studio since I wont have to cart it around and see what I think. Have actually read a lot of people saying it's easy to set up, however, I personally assumed it would not be easy.
As for live, I can just stick with my GT5 noise reduction. So long as I don't set it too high it works well enough for my tastes.
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When I was all rack all the time, I used the Hush II C in stereo. That unit did the trick but got touchy when turning the guitar volume knob down too much or if I got out of my audio technical wireless range.
I used the Quadraverb GT and that had a gate but it was seriously tight and chopped off notes too much.
When I switched to the Boss GT-10 floor effects unit, it had two virtual NS-2 pedals in it. They do a great job.
I have a physical Boss NS-2 that I want to use for my w/d/w setup using two MP-1's but it's a pain for me to use the way I want to like the old Hush IIC.
I've never tried the Decimator stuff. I might have to pick one up used.
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I also tried the decimator pedal but didn't like as much as the rack version.
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When I was all rack all the time, I used the Hush II C in stereo. That unit did the trick but got touchy when turning the guitar volume knob down too much or if I got out of my audio technical wireless range.
I used the Quadraverb GT and that had a gate but it was seriously tight and chopped off notes too much.
When I switched to the Boss GT-10 floor effects unit, it had two virtual NS-2 pedals in it. They do a great job.
I have a physical Boss NS-2 that I want to use for my w/d/w setup using two MP-1's but it's a pain for me to use the way I want to like the old Hush IIC.
I've never tried the Decimator stuff. I might have to pick one up used.
What's the difference between the Hush IIC and the Hush IICX?
Just one has meters? I might set it up.
@mjmp
Yeah I didn't mind the G-string decimator but I rendered it useless when I realised I was just doin stuff wrong and using too much gain and all that sorta novice shit, and then I realised the GT6 (I was using at the time) noise reduction (I guess a virtual NF-1) did the job fine.
ISP bill the g-string pedal as the same as rack, what is different in your opinion? Or did you just want the pedals off the floor?
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Back when I was using MP-1 preamps, I also had a Rocktron Hush Super C (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rocktron-hush-super-c-stereo-guitar-noise-reduction-system). I didn't really use or even need the Hush part of it; I just needed the Gate part and it really worked great. So easy to use, just two knobs....and only one of those to adjust if you only use the Gate part like I did. I've heard some "tone suck" stories about it, but I didn't get any suction at all with my setup.
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@RG Well yes no pedals for me and I like to use 2 gates (before, after the MP-1)
And BTW I still own a Japanese NF-1,it was my first noise gate and never got rid of it.In my pedal board I have a NS-2.
Now I think of it I also have a Hush in my Rocktron patchmate but I never used it.
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Ok, Here's my 2 cents:
I own a pair of dbx 463x noise gates which are half rack units. They're very easy to use, and quite effective with one knob for the Threshold setting and a slider for the gating. The only reason I even own noise gates are for the MP-1 since those are the only preamps which don't have built-in noise gates.
Since you are just getting into building your rack, you might want to experiment with the placement of your effects in the signal chain. From the rig pic you posted, I see you are using stomp boxes which for me, always posed an interesting dilemma. The stomps I thought sounded the best were usually on the noisy side. Modulation-based effects, I would put in through the front of the preamp, whereas time-based effects I would use in the loop. Placing the noise gate at the beginning of the effects loop to cut the noise before going to the delays and the power amps, seems to be the best results for me.
I would look at noise gates on evil bay. You'd probably find a good deal there.
Harley 8)
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My current rig runs:
Dunlop GCB 95 (Keeley "Mellow Wah" Mod)
TC Electronic Helix Phase
Black Arts Toneworks Black Forest Overdrive (Colorsound Overdriver Clone)
MXR Analog Chorus
TC FlashbackX4
CAE Line Driver
As I said I was initially going straight in, but I'm definitely going to experiment with running things in the loop.
So it looks like I can choose between the Decimator, HUSH, and DBX. I might end up going with one of the latter two simply because of price (I've other things to invest in), but I might spring for the decimator at a later date.
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PrimalScream91,
The dbx units I have are no longer made. They were discontinued around 1990. Since then, the Harmon Group bought Lexicon, Digitech, DOD, and dbx. They've totally changed everything around. The downside to the dbx units I have is that they don't have grounded AC plugs, so you have to use them with a power conditioner or they'll fry at a club with sub-standard wiring. That happened to me once, and it's a pain in the a$$!
I would look around for a dedicated noise gate, without a compressor/limiter since I don't need that in a rack. Why get all that extra stuff that I won't use? It just gets in the way.
Harley 8)
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Why get all that extra stuff that I won't use? It just gets in the way.
Harley 8)
I agree! Which is why I never bought into the Fractal stuff, I don't see anyone using more than 10% of it's potential. Thats also the reason why I've not looked into multi-fx units that much.
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Why get all that extra stuff that I won't use? It just gets in the way.
Harley 8)
I agree! Which is why I never bought into the Fractal stuff, I don't see anyone using more than 10% of it's potential. Thats also the reason why I've not looked into multi-fx units that much.
Don't take what I said the wrong way, SOME multi effects units are pretty good. I own a few of them, and the great thing about them is that you can edit out the effects you don't want in one instance, and call them up later in another instance. It's a space saver no doubt, but you have to be aware that many of these units will also "color" the tone of your amplifier, and this includes the high-end gear too. Eventide Harmonizers and Lexicon Reverbs have long been considered the industry standards in high-end processing, but they do add a distinct character when they are applied to a signal chain. I own both and I use them sparingly, when I need them.
For a pure A/DA tone from my amplifiers, I like to use my A/DA effects and maybe add a bit of Reverb with a Lexicon, but all the other processors are usually A/DA. That's the great thing about an analog signal path, it sounds more believable than an over-processed tone. An example of a great guitar player who had a very over-processed guitar tone would be Richie Sambora from Bon Jovi.
Harley 8)
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Richie Sambora is one that a lot of people forget about! The guy is an amazing guitar player but really doesn't get that much credit, I guess thats the price you pay for backing a solo artist.
Steve Stevens is an amazing player as well, but a lot of people don't know who he is because he's "just the guitar player" for Billy Idol.
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Steve Stevens is an amazing player as well, but a lot of people don't know who he is because he's "just the guitar player" for Billy Idol.
Steve Stevens is one of my all time favorites. Especially as I started my guitar journey learning Flamenco and Classical when I was 10. His work on the Jerusalem Slim and Vince Neil solo CD's is amazing.
If you were looking to buy a NS-2, I'd sell you mine. I'm not using it and it's in very good shape.
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Steve Stevens is one of my favorite guitar players as well, but he doesn't sound over-processed like Richie Sambora does. His guitar tone sounds very organic, and he is very imaginative with his use of effects.
Check out his solo album, Flamenco A Go Go, and Vince Neil's Exposed as Panda suggests. Those are excellent albums.
Harley 8)
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I too think Steve Stevens is an underrated guitarist. As far as his tone the Billy Idol and Vince Neil lps sound good but his soundtrack for Top Gun is majorly over processed.
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@RG Well yes no pedals for me and I like to use 2 gates (before, after the MP-1)
And BTW I still own a Japanese NF-1,it was my first noise gate and never got rid of it.In my pedal board I have a NS-2.
Now I think of it I also have a Hush in my Rocktron patchmate but I never used it.
@ MJMP
I've heard of a technique called double gating before, and read about this but not in a guitar setup, this was for recording vocals actually.
So I guess you are employing a similar technique by using two gates. So you have two decimators in your rack?
I dunno how strange it is of me to do what I do, but I use noise reduction on my FX unit (GT5) as loosly as possible and I just have it after the preamp in the FX chain. I use it loosley so as to be very clear of any tone degradation. Usually around 45%. Just enough to take out the noise. I could take it to about 55-60% I guess if I wanted. To help things naturally I've made my guitar as anti feedback as possible, i.e sponge under the pickups, wax potted the pickups to my own standard, dampened the tremolo springs.
Since I got rid of the ground loop also, life has got waaaayy better! But I'll update that thread seperately.
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No, the decimator pro G rack has 2 separate gates in 1 rack. Been using this technique for years, it works better and it also gives no gate chatter at all. And the open/close speed of the gates in the decimator is super fast.
I use a gate not only for noise but also for feedback killing.
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That's where MJMP and I differ, I use EQ to eliminate unwanted feedback, (Graphics are so good for this), and I let the musical feedback come through. It's amazing how many guitar players these days have no idea what "sweet spots" are on a stage.
Harley 8)
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Ok you can do that but it will always alter your sound, no?
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Not by that much. I don't have much of an issue with any microphonic feedback to begin with, so it's more like a tone-shaping EQ which is what we do anyway to get the kind of tone we want to hear.
Harley 8)
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I guess it all depends on how much gain you use and the volumes you play at.I don't think I could rule out feedback with just an EQ.
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I like to play at a volume that matches the drums, with a boost for the solos. I don't feel the need to bury everyone with the sound of my guitar.
You must play at VERY loud volumes :o
Harley 8)
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I'd be the same as MJMP probably. Not sure an EQ would sort me out completely. As for volume, yes I have to play very loud as the drummer is stupid loud! Thankfully I can beat him now once and for all! I don't need to go past two o clock on the volume knob either to do it!
I like to have the ability to feedback also. Sometimes I let it ring out and play with the whammy bar and the feedback during a song intro, or between songs :thumb-up:
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I completely understand RG,
Drummers aren't the brightest crayons in the box, and it's even worse when they can't keep a steady meter. Dynamics is a concept that escapes about 99% of the so-called Percussion Engineers out there.
Very much like the average guitar player who gets terrified at the word "Programmable" because he believes that and the word "Amplifier" should never be used in the same sentence.
I've had to compete for airspace with drummers like that in the past more often than I'd like to admit, but at least the ADA rigs make that easy. My levels are usually at a point where if I turn up my volume on the guitar, a couple of my open strings will begin to feedback. Usually they are the A,D and G strings. It doesn't have to be frightfully loud on my end to do that either, but when that happens, I usually have to tell the drummer to tighten his snare bands. :lol:
The EQ settings can help this happen at lower volumes though, but you need a Spectrum Anaylizer to see where all your feedback shelves are. Sound men usually have these things at larger venues to see where their frequencies are clipping. so they can trim those EQ bands down.
I like multi-frequency feedback myself because that allows me to bend a feedback note into another feedback note or chord. An example of what I'm talking about would be on one occasion, I was pinching a D note at the 12th fret, which began to feed back very nicely, then I bent that up to an E note while it was still feeding back, which struck a harmonic frequency with the open E strings, and they began to vibrate and feedback also. At this point I slid down to an open E Maj 4th (Sus), which just began to feedback across all six strings. There were harmonic shifts and pitch changes in the feedback through all of this but it was very musical, and people later asked me what kind of effect was I using to get those crazy sounds. That was too funny.
Harley 8)
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Or you can buy the berhinger feedback destroyer crap :lol:
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@Harley
well that's a lot more complex view of feedback than I have. But that's because I don't know as much. Basically I'm just trying to make noises. I haven't cracked getting notes to change with it. I'm not sure what sets my feedback off in terms of what strings. Probably the D and G I reckon. I might experiment and see if I can get more things to happen with the feedback.
@mjmp is that feedback destroyer for guitars? I was thinking it's more of a live sound in general type of tool? Might be useful in that context. Or perhaps it is just crap. I still enjoy behringer products even if that one is shit :) They've served me well over the years. Still use a UB1222fx and AB200 footswitch and AD121 V-tone acoustic DI. I think Behringer has something called a "shark" also for feedback.
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They have a feedback destroyer but IMO behringer is crap.And it's for PA's.
http://www.bax-shop.be/nl/behringer-fbq1000-feedback-destroyer
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They have a feedback destroyer but IMO behringer is crap.And it's for PA's.
http://www.bax-shop.be/nl/behringer-fbq1000-feedback-destroyer
+1 Behringer is crap for guitar! I have two multi-effects processors from them, and I don't use them at all. Modulizer Pro, and Virtulizer Pro. The effects in these might be okay to mix with a board, but in the effects loop of a preamp, they suck pharts out of city bus seats!
Harley 8)
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Hey RG, feedback "destroyers" are basically frequency sensitive compressors, so they monitor the freq spectrum and if any "go off" they compress just that frequency. They are primarily for PA and lazy sound engineers. Not that they don't have their place but if you are any good at tuning a system (FOH and Monitors), you shouldn't need them. They can be helpful with more complicated monitor setups where it get hard to know where the squeal is coming from. Your main "friend" with PA feedback is lots of headroom in the poweramps. For guitar feedback it's all very different. A good way to get used to it is to crank an old Marshall, just guitar, no FX, and learn how to control and play with the massive feedback >:D . I used to play Hendrix star spangled banner as loud as my amp would go
I always liked Behringer gear but their quality has dropped off from when I first bought a few bits many years ago (but it's about a price point..). The Eurorack UB2442FX desks are reasonable and well featured. I have 2, a very early one and a later one for the PA. The FX in these desks is crap, there's only one setting (a delay + rev) that's slightly usable. I've used a VertuliserPro for some recording, I just used the aural exciter though. I have a 4 way headphone amp that's very good (again early version). I also have a patch bay, it's pretty ordinary and triples the amount of leads you need to plug something in. My Truth studio monitors (with Truth Sub) are very good, mine are well over 10years old, but again very early manufacture, I paid over $2.5k for these, now you can buy a pair for $600.
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can't vouch for any of those things, but as I say the behringer stuff I have work fine and I've had no issues. I don't think I would bother using their guitar effects, although I've used a couple of their stomps over the years and they were fine as well.
Oh I forgot I have a rack compressor by Behringer and there is nothing wrong with that either and a multigate pro which is very good XR4400 and and two little Behringer Vintager Practice amps which are really nice and have a little tube in the preamp for a natural over drive. Respect you guys opinions but I myself can't just say they are crap, not from my own experience. I'm sure some stuff is rubbish though I have no doubts, but they fill a gap in the market for those looking for affordable kit that can actually be really good.
@Richard, yeah I imagined that feedback destroyer thing would be something like you say it is. And yeah probably for lazy engineers.
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The behringer feedback destroyer works like an eq but with very narrow bands,so it detects the FB freq and turns the gain of that freq down.
Now all the beringer I have is crap,the headphone amp I have distorts like crazy if you put in 2 headphones or 1 low impedance headphone, the gates cracks ,worthless pieces of crap.The only good thing they make is the CT100 cable tester :lol:
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The behringer feedback destroyer works like an eq but with very narrow bands,so it detects the FB freq and turns the gain of that freq down.
Now all the beringer I have is crap,the headphone amp I have distorts like crazy if you put in 2 headphones or 1 low impedance headphone, the gates cracks ,worthless pieces of crap.The only good thing they make is the CT100 cable tester :lol:
I don't mean to be sounding like I'm leaping to behringers defence but........
I have the same headphone amp actually, so that's more Behringer gear I own. No problems like you have MJMP. I used it during our last recordings (few weeks ago). I didn't buy this however, someone accidentally left it inside a multitrack I bought so I got a brand new headphone amp for free.
I also own the Cable tester is real good MJMP. Solid built and the battery has lasted me since I first got the thing about 6-7 years ago. Oh and a Behringer ULTRA-G GI100 is fine as well. Oh and one more, we use these PA speakers Behringer Eurolive B2520 Pro Dual 15" Passive PA Speakers for vocals and they are spot on and going strong after ten years so I have to flat out say that not all their stuff is crap. I'm sure some of it is, but I've yet to be let down.
Again I can only speak on behalf of my own experience with their stuff and in all honesty I've never had one f*ck up. Also if you check on line reviews, plenty, and I mean plenty of people review quite a few positive reviews of products they make.
Even though I do not own these Behringer B115D, I happen to know these are very good monitors since I've used them at gigs I've played. Oh and our bass player uses this Behringer BX4500H Ultrabass Head. It's a good amp, I just despise the EQ on it. It really ruins my day trying to use the f**king thing!
I know Soloist has had a positive experience using the Behringer hum destroyer (which is a similar device to the Art Clean Box I got for my ground loop issue). And Richard loves his Behringer truths.
The gates cracks? What do you mean MJMP?
Jeez I didn't realise I have quite a bit of behringer stuff.
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In my humble opinion, the best noise gate ever made was the Rockman Smart Gate. It was a studio-quality unit available as a half-rack module and can still be found on eBay for around $250; two can be mounted for stereo side by side in a Rockman Rack Tray. I like it so much I have two of them; the gate action is completely imperceptible. Here's a great article on the design:
http://www.rockman.fr/Reviews/SG.htm (http://www.rockman.fr/Reviews/SG.htm)
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/SG_zpsqixjnp8c.jpg)
When Tom Scholz sold SR&D to Dunlop, they rebranded the Smart Gate as the MXR Smart Gate. It is essentially the same circuit. I also use the rack version, the MXR Smart Gate Pro:
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/rgs-mxr-sgpro__2_bf985d8f-1bd2-4b47-9442-8faedf60b08b_1024x1024_zpsxc6xqu26.jpeg)
An excellent unit overall as well; you can pick one up on eBay for around $300.
Finally, I have an ISP Decimator Pro Rack G Stereo; this is the one that lives in my ADA rack:
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/unspecified_zpsty0o7d4z.jpg)
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/prorackg_stereo_zpskvtmytuw.jpg)
The stereo mod version is the right one to get; it has a separate guitar input that allows it to track the signal more accurately than the regular version. It is not cheap: I picked mine up on eBay for $350. Overall it performs very well, but the gating action is more noticeable than with the MXR or Rockman.
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Hey GB,
I nearly bought an MXR Smartgate.
So are you telling me that the pedal version is the Rockman Smartgate? How does the pedal and rack version compare? The rack seems a lot more articulate.
Guess what................Behringer copied the MXR Smartgate too lol :facepalm: sorry guys had to mention it
http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-ig9-intelligent-noise-gate-effects-pe--248-6258 (http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-ig9-intelligent-noise-gate-effects-pe--248-6258)
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I have the decimator with the stereo mod but I still prefer it hooked up as dual mono, tracking is a lot better this way.So how does the decimator compares to the MXR and rockman?
@RG, well when the gates open you hear a sort crack in the sound,maybe they use relays in it hahaha .
I use a SMpro headphone amp now,it's like 500 times better then the behringer and Australian made >:D
Nice rack with a lot switching options and 6 outputs.
http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/en/products/headphone-amps/hp6e#hi-res-pictures
Now I forgot to mention I also have a second Behringer unit, the PB1000, ideal for putting my boss pedals in.But you can only use the case,don't use the cable's and power transformer unless you want added noise.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-PB1000-Pedal-Board/dp/B000VBC5CY
The 9V adaptor I use is the 1 spot,really good, a lot better then the supplied behringer.
http://www.bax-shop.nl/gitaareffect-voeding-adapter/truetone-1-spot-adapter-combo-pack
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I remember looking into those Rockman Smart Gates when I was shopping for noise gates back in the 80's. The Rockman is actually a combination De-Esser/Noise Gate, with a compression effect added. It was the compressor that actually turned me off to the unit since I didn't need or want a compressor in my rack.
That was something I noticed about a lot of the Rockman gear. Compression effect is present with a lot of the units, and too much of it just doesn't sound natural on a guitar. Tom Scholz really liked the compression effects it seems.
Harley 8)
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When Tom Scholz sold SR&D to Dunlop, they rebranded the Smart Gate as the MXR Smart Gate. It is essentially the same circuit. I also use the rack version, the MXR Smart Gate Pro:
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/rgs-mxr-sgpro__2_bf985d8f-1bd2-4b47-9442-8faedf60b08b_1024x1024_zpsxc6xqu26.jpeg)
An excellent unit overall as well; you can pick one up on eBay for around $300.
Finally, I have an ISP Decimator Pro Rack G Stereo; this is the one that lives in my ADA rack:
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/unspecified_zpsty0o7d4z.jpg)
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg481/GuitarBuilder/prorackg_stereo_zpskvtmytuw.jpg)
The stereo mod version is the right one to get; it has a separate guitar input that allows it to track the signal more accurately than the regular version. It is not cheap: I picked mine up on eBay for $350. Overall it performs very well, but the gating action is more noticeable than with the MXR or Rockman.
I looked at the MXR, but I didn't know much about it.
I love your head case by the way! :thumb-up:
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When I bought the Behringer headphone amp it was the best featured one I could find and not expensive. I used it extensively without any issues. We also bought some monitor wedges (1x12 + horn) which are the nicest sounding wedges I've ever heard, though a little lite on power handling. They discontinued that model and went for a slightly bigger wedge with more power capacity, these don't sound anywhere near as good as the first version.
Yeah Tom Schultz was the compression king. My X100 sounds great but is sooo compressed, totally get where your coming from there Harley. The only place I use MP2 compression is on clean sounds.
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@MJMP
Well my headphone amp does what I want and without anything negative that I can tell. I'm using only the little basic model as well and not the rack headphone amp they make. So a 500 times better headphone amp isn't really going to matter to me. May be you got a faulty behringer headphone amp or something.
My use for most of my behringer gear is practical. Why do I need to spend considerably more money on gear that is not crucially important or that only need to get the job done? A headphone amp for crying out loud, well all I need this for is to allow more than one person to listen to the monitor mix clearly. Behringer head phone amp did/does this for me.
Oh and another decent behringer product the fcb1010. Great unit and at a half the price of the roland, and you can update the eprom to do all kind of extra functionality. I might sell mine though as what the hell do I need it for??????
@Guitar Builder
can you verify Harley's claims that the Smartgate is a De-Esser/Noise Gate, with a compression?
and if it is does this mean the MXR Smartgate which is the same circuit is also a De-Esser/Noise Gate, with a compression? Curious to know.
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Well my behringer headphone amp (it's the 19" rack version) was so bad that you just couldn't use it.It's not pleasant if you always hear distortion when you are recording. Also a good monitor sound in the headphones is an absolute must. Maybe I just have bad luck with behringer units.
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Well that depends on what you describe as good. Hearing everything clearly but perhaps not quite as sonically brilliant as my home stereo qualifies as good for me. If you imply that I would settle for distortion in my monitors then your of your rocker. However I would settle for playback at a fair quality, but not necessarily as good as home stereo sound. When monitoring all I need is for the drummer to hear himself and hear the backing track.
Had I bought a unit that distorted they way you describe MJMP I'd have returned it to the shop I bought it from. You can't sell a unit that does not perform, or distorts. That suggests it's faulty in my opinion.
As for the rack headphone amp, never used it. I just used the tiny 4 channel one they sell https://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-ha-400-4-way-mini-headphone-amp/1150?gclid=CKLYrrHz480CFYpAGwodWawE9g (https://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-ha-400-4-way-mini-headphone-amp/1150?gclid=CKLYrrHz480CFYpAGwodWawE9g) only mine is dark in colour.
Did you have this MJMP? 544 reviews on the Thomann website give it an average 4.5 stars out of 5.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ha4700_powerplay_proxl_kopfhoererverstaerker.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ha4700_powerplay_proxl_kopfhoererverstaerker.htm)
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Well someone gave it to me ;D but it's a 4600 not the 4700.
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Hey GB,
I nearly bought an MXR Smartgate.
So are you telling me that the pedal version is the Rockman Smartgate? How does the pedal and rack version compare? The rack seems a lot more articulate.
Guess what................Behringer copied the MXR Smartgate too lol :facepalm: sorry guys had to mention it
http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-ig9-intelligent-noise-gate-effects-pe--248-6258 (http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-ig9-intelligent-noise-gate-effects-pe--248-6258)
The MXR pedal circuitry is very similar to the Rockman; the main difference is the lower single 9V supply and the choice of opamps. The Rockman used a bipolar power supply which gave it more headroom. It was also capable of handling line-level signals. The MXR pedal also uses modern circuit board design with SMT components, while the Rockman is old-fashioned DIP.
The MXR Smart Gate Pro has several enhancements over the pedal, e.g. stereo sync, ground lift. The circuitry is identical to the pedal.
Behringer (and also Nobels) were (and still are) notorious for copying good designs from other manufacturers.
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I have the decimator with the stereo mod but I still prefer it hooked up as dual mono, tracking is a lot better this way.So how does the decimator compares to the MXR and rockman?
The Decimator works much better as a cascaded (dual mono) unit, you're right! However I needed stereo to handle the MP1/2 outputs and was too cheap to buy two Decimators! :banana-guitar: :banana-guitar:
However, even in cascaded mode the Decimator cannot duplicate the Rockman's ability to do frequency-selective noise gating. So the order for me is:
1) Rockman
2) MXR
3) ISP Decimator
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I remember looking into those Rockman Smart Gates when I was shopping for noise gates back in the 80's. The Rockman is actually a combination De-Esser/Noise Gate, with a compression effect added. It was the compressor that actually turned me off to the unit since I didn't need or want a compressor in my rack.
That was something I noticed about a lot of the Rockman gear. Compression effect is present with a lot of the units, and too much of it just doesn't sound natural on a guitar. Tom Scholz really liked the compression effects it seems.
Harley 8)
I think you're confusing the Smart Gate with the Sustainor, which has a compressor and smart gate built in. The Rockman Smart Gate has no compression circuitry; actually none of the Rockman rack units beside the Sustainor and Guitar Compressor (and the belt versions that started it all) use compression.
Tom does indeed like compression, but only right before distortion effects. As you know that gives a wonderful even, sustained distortion.
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I never saw Rockman gear over here, to bad I guess ;D
Say in the rack with the ADA preamp there's a big Rockman module next to it with a rocker switch, what does this do?
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I never saw Rockman gear over here, to bad I guess ;D
Say in the rack with the ADA preamp there's a big Rockman module next to it with a rocker switch, what does this do?
Are you referring to the RMC Headcase? If so the only thing I can think is the case has a power supply built into it and the rocker switch acts as a master on/off switch for the rack.
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I think you're confusing the Smart Gate with the Sustainor, which has a compressor and smart gate built in. The Rockman Smart Gate has no compression circuitry; actually none of the Rockman rack units beside the Sustainor and Guitar Compressor (and the belt versions that started it all) use compression.
Tom does indeed like compression, but only right before distortion effects. As you know that gives a wonderful even, sustained distortion.
That was actually something I had read in the music store that day. The clerk who was helping me with the noise gates handed me some spec sheets they had in the store on most of the noise gates they carried. On the Rockman spec sheet, what caught my attention was a fixed compression ratio setting that was non-adjustable. I asked about that, but no one knew for certain because it didn't seem to make sense to have a compressor in a noise gate. There was no mention of it in the brief paragraph at the bottom of the spec sheet, it was only in the spec listing above that.
Maybe it was a typo on the spec sheet? In any event, that was what made me move on to another brand. I have no regrets about getting the dbx gates. They are very easy to set, and very smooth, and I still use them to this day.
Harley 8)
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@PS yes that's what I mean
@Harley ,a noise gate is in essence a reversed compressor,a compressor will pull up the signal below the threshold, a gate will pull it down.
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Just to chime in on the Behringer headphone amp, I have (well 2 Mikes borrowing one of them) the Power Play HA 4800 rack mount. It's the best featured unit I've come across. Provides 4 headphone outs, all with vol, treb, bass, pan and additional stereo input just for that headphone (also 2 HP outs per channel so you can run 8 sets of HPs). I've used many a "can" setup in the studio and the 4800 is as good sounding as any. Of course choice of headphone plays a part. But sound wise the 4800 is a very good unit, so MJMP if you are getting distortion, something is definitely wrong :facepalm: .
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Yeah like I said maybe I just have bad luck with behringer and it also was the older 4600 version I have.In the end it all comes down that if you're happy with it, stay with it I guess.I wasen't happy with my behringer so I bought something else.
And I don't use the gates anymore,so no problem there either :P But I do like the cabletester and the carry case so I'm not all anti behringer.
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I never saw Rockman gear over here, to bad I guess ;D
Say in the rack with the ADA preamp there's a big Rockman module next to it with a rocker switch, what does this do?
Are you referring to the RMC Headcase? If so the only thing I can think is the case has a power supply built into it and the rocker switch acts as a master on/off switch for the rack.
Perfect! This one has 10 AC outlets in the back. No need to take up a slot with a Furman.
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Here is some fun reading for the electronics wizards - Tom's original patent in 1989.
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Thanks GB, very interesting read :thumb-up:
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Since I wasn't aware of the existance of any other behringer headphone amp other than the little one I have I am now curious about those rack versions MJMP and Richard mention. They sound good Richard, obviously MJMPs was a dud, but they seem like good solutions providing they work as intended.
MJMP I know you aint Behringer anti :) Some people just are though for reasons such as "made in China" and the stuff is cheap. In my experience, Behringer has provided good solutions for certain requirments at affordable prices. Some stuff is very good and holds it's own to more expensive gear, other stuff I'm sure is utter crap lol
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Seems they've stopped making the HA4800, the 4700 seems similar. It wasn't particularly expensive IIRC and great features, works a treat :thumb-up: Sounds really good and has plenty of good clean grunt.