Effects after MP-1 or in the effects loop?

[jarrodthebobo]

Hi guys I just have a quick question:

For a while now I've been running all my effects (BBE, 15 band EQ, quadraverb, T.C Electronics alter ego, etc) AFTER the ADA mp-1 (From the output into the next unit).

Should I be running these effects through the FX loops?

I only ask this question as I've noticed that when I turn up the input volume of my Quadraverb (Which is the unit that last in line before my HUSH II which then goes into the Carvin TS100 (Turning up the input because output is maxed, the Quadraverb is acting as my final volume knob until going into the Carvin)), once it gets past a certain point/loudness (I mean I'm talking about LOUD, all the settings before this certain shaking-the-entire-house threshold sound great... I just want it to sound good at all volume settings in case I need all that volume), my sound starts to become farty, muddy, and kind of not too pleasant sounding. The clipping lights arn't going off, so nothing is being overloaded I assume...

Is this because those effects mentioned above should be in the Effects loop? Or does it not matter whether or not the units are in the effects loop or after the mp-1?

Thanks!

[MarshallJMP]

I would keep it like it is because the effectloop isn't that good.But what i would change is that you put the hush before the quadra verb.Now this will not change your problem but it's better this way.

As for your problem,maybe you reached that point that you're overdriving the power amp and/or speakers or the quadra verb can't handle it anymore.

[jarrodthebobo]

Thanks, but why would I put the HUSH before the Quadraverb exactly?

I decided to experiment and put everything in the loop, and it honestly sounds better there to my ears (for the moment at least). Could just be that I like the EQ and BBE in the loop better than after, as the unit sounded more natural and less compressed with everything in the loop now (But that could just be a placebo effect of me wanting this to sound better).

I'll continue playing around with things as they are, and putting this after the ADA again (however the HUSH II after the ADA sucks a whole lotta tone IMHO... while in the loop it does not.)

[RandallRG]

Yeah man you have to do some experimenting. Like Marshall said (& has told me in the past about the MP-1 FX Loop not being so good?) I was running my Digitizer 4 in through the front of my Randall & it sounded o.k. I put it in the FX Loop & honestly (To my ears anyway) it sounds 100% better! So with all gear it's time to just check them out & see what like's what! I have tried my gear both ways just to see which way it sounds better. Anyway it's just my $0.02 Dude...Good Luck!  :metal:

[MarshallJMP]

Well time based effects should be set always behind a noise gate,else it could cut of some delays or reverbs.

Now some like the loop some don't ,i guess it's up to your ears to decide what sounds good and what not.

[RandallRG]

Now some like the loop some don't ,i guess it's up to your ears to decide what sounds good and what not.

WORD DUDE  :metal:

[jarrodthebobo]

Well time based effects should be set always behind a noise gate,else it could cut of some delays or reverbs.

Now some like the loop some don't ,i guess it's up to your ears to decide what sounds good and what not.

I never thought of that... huh good point. Alright, gonna haveta move that Hush then!

[Batsinthebelltower]

Well time based effects should be set always behind a noise gate,else it could cut of some delays or reverbs.

+1  you want to be able to hear your delays ring out after you silence the guitar

although i havent made the error of gate AFTER fx , i did recently put my effects before ada microcab cabsim , which in turn cabsim eq'd all the effects too

def put your gate before fx

[kawai2g4b]

There really are a lot of variables going on with different units.  The chorus and the delay on my Roland GP-8 really did not sound great when placed after the preamp due to how drastically it changed the tone.  Then i shoved those effects into my MP-1 loop and it settled down into just adding on to the preamp tone rather than be influenced by the preamp output.  I may be old school with my rig but I tend to avoid using older digital effects after the preamp due to processing limitations being exaggerated by the signal path.  That being said, my Digitizer stays in the loop.  I did have a good experience with the Lexicon MX200 between the pre and power amp though.

[finstah]

Well time based effects should be set always behind a noise gate,else it could cut of some delays or reverbs.

:thumb-up:

[rnolan]

There really are a lot of variables going on with different units.  The chorus and the delay on my Roland GP-8 really did not sound great when placed after the preamp due to how drastically it changed the tone.  Then i shoved those effects into my MP-1 loop and it settled down into just adding on to the preamp tone rather than be influenced by the preamp output.  I may be old school with my rig but I tend to avoid using older digital effects after the preamp due to processing limitations being exaggerated by the signal path.  That being said, my Digitizer stays in the loop.  I did have a good experience with the Lexicon MX200 between the pre and power amp though.

I'm a big fan of mixing it in using a small mixer so they all come together in the desk (well I'm also a sound guy...so it's easier this way for my head  ).  The thing that I tend to focus on is that different gadgets AD/DA your signal, I've got a bug up may ar#e that I want to keep everything as analogue as possible, so happy to mix in digital stuff to my main analogue signal path, not so happy to put a digital gadget directly between my lovely analogue MP2 and the power amp as it will AD the signal on the way in and DA it on the way out (so now my lovely analogue signal is at the mercy of the (depends on the unit) vagaries of their (generally pretty average AD/DA converters).
Lexicon make good kit, always have, so I understand why it would sound reasonable between the pre-amp and power amp.

[jarrodthebobo]

I honestly used to be the same way when it came to analogue and digital devices. I have an old Epiphone Valve Special that's been modified to contain the preamp of a marshall class five, and a separate channel (almost completely separate amp) that is based on a vox AC4. The amp originally came with a bunch of digital effects I had ripped out because I believed that it was killing my analogue signal!  :P

However I kind of tried to drop that way of thinking as a lot of stuff coming out now a days, and even a lot of stuff from 'back when' were digital, or part digital and analogue, and didn't want to pass up on using some of these awesome devices.

However there still might be some truth in that Digital vs. Analogue debate after switching my units around... it seems like after I removed everything (everything digital that is like my Quad and my Alter Ego) from after the direct out, my tone sounds a bit less processed or compressed. They sound better in the loop, but YMMV.

[rnolan]

Hey Jarrod, I still believe it's worth keeping an analogue signal path from guitar to speakers, better head room and true signals (A/D, D/A converters are a many splendid thing, but really GOOD ones are expensive and they have to interpolate (make up stuff between the samples)). But allot of digital gear sounds great, "e.g. I love digital reverb...". This is part of the reason I went with a small (analogue) mixer, I could keep my main signal path analogue and mix in some digital effects, but the digital stuff doesn't take over my signal dynamic or take away it's sound. And it's so much easier to get your gain structure right this way.