New Frets Day

[rnolan]

So after 35 + years I'm getting my Anderson Pro Am re-fretted.  Initially we were going to just do 3 frets (2nd, 3rd and 4th) as the rest were evenly worn but I had dents 2nd fret G string (A), 3rd fret top E string (G), and 4th fret G string (B).  When I got the neck relief were I like it (very flat) those notes had stopped working .

But when my builder (Russel Vance (vance guitars )) got to it this week, he decided to do them all, which I'm quite happy about.  Took a couple of weeks for the right stainless wire to come from New York, but should be ready next week.  He's already re dressed the Pau Fero finger board (see pic).

This is the first Pro Am in Australia, Tom (Anderson) built in 1987 to take to the NAMM show.  So has his original peg head (cross between a tele and L series strat).  Bass wood body, Pau Fero/Maple neck, sunken floating Floyd Rose, and Bill Laurence Ultrasonic Ref series PUs (Ref 6, Ref 3, Ref 3) which he used until Schecter let him make his own PUs again (Tom was a R&D guy at Schecter when they got bought out back in the day).

So the original stainless frets lasted really well.  I was averaging 3 gigs a week (plus rehearsals etc.) for 15 years of those 35+ years.  Changing strings every 2 gigs (or I'd bust D strings, not fun on a floating floyd in the middle of a solo).

I'll post some more pics (for Dante LoL) when I get it back.

[Kazinator]

Initially we were going to just do 3

That's just the first stage: denial.     I'm not addicted; it's just recreational/social. My frets aren't worn to heck, it's just three or four!

How would that ever work: the new frets would have to be sanded down to the height of the ones with 35 years of wear to get them level, making that a bit of a waste and only delaying a full refret by a few years maybe?

I also have a guitar over 30 years old with worn down frets. Over the years I leveled them two or three times? But it's been a very long time since the last. It could use new ones.

Worse, the weird nut on the truss rod is stripped (the threads are not stripped, but the slots for the driver so that you can turn it: it's not a hex nut). Over a year ago, I managed to move that thing about a quarter turn, and it made a miraculous difference. When I fret the 1st and 24th fret of the E and A strings, they can just barely hold 0.73 mm pick against the 12th fret. That's not a bad clearance, representing about the maximum end of the relief range. The action is nice and playable, but I'd like to get that nut fixed to experiment with a bit less relief on that guitar.

The guy who built the guitar used some funny truss rod he brought from Europe, with an X slotted cylindrical nut. X slotted cylindrical truss rod nuts easily show up in an image search, but I'm not sure about the thread pitch; metric or imperial. Probably I will take it to a luthier who could somehow get it out and then try out different nuts for a matching thread diameter and pitch.

[rnolan]

Hey Kaz, yes that was the conversation I was having with Russell. filing 3 new frets down to match and get a couple of more years...  I'm glad he's doing them all so it will be good for another 30years (and I'll be dead by then LoL).

It has the same stupid X slotted truss rod nut as yours.  They were common in some guitars for a while.  He's replacing it.  It's probably 3/16" but if yours came from Europe it may be metric.  They are such a pain to adjust and they damage easily   and I was always very careful adjusting it.  It should come out easily with the neck off so you can get at it better.  Unfortunately, using an allen nut instead isn't really an option with they way the neck pocket is constructed.  My Profile Silhouette Tele has the same setup (adjusts at the body end) but they used an allen nut and made a channel so you can get at it with a short end allen key.

[rnolan]

  so I got it back last week.  It's taken a couple of days for the neck to settle and also the frets need to be played in.  So I basically went bending every note and after each bend the frets came good (so I did them all).

Played it tonight, all clean sounds.  I'm working up a duo thing with our singer, just piano and guitar versions of songs we like.  Sounded so beautiful and articulate. The neck has settled nicely now and the SS frets are so buttery/smooth to play.

I'll post a pic later for Dante...

[Harley Hexxe]

I'm glad it worked out Richard,

It's always a bit scary and uncertain when you have something like this done on one of your favorite guitars, but it's a great feeling of relief when it all turns out good, or even better than before.

I feel you.

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, tonight I gave it a more work out with non clean patches. It's still settling.
And yeah, as you said, it was a (really) scary thing to do.  Hey it was fantastic, why change it. But 3 dented frets/dud notes...
It's definitely not the same as it was (well not yet, but getting better all the time).

Mabe I can equate it to burning in new tubes(?). it's getting better, but takes a little time.

[Dante]

Glad that worked out Richard, I'm scared to death to try refretting...haha

My Explorer could sure use some new frets...they weren't big to begin with, but now....let's just say there are some dents in the cowboy chord area that could probably be leveled out

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Harley, tonight I gave it a more work out with non clean patches. It's still settling.
And yeah, as you said, it was a (really) scary thing to do.  Hey it was fantastic, why change it. But 3 dented frets/dud notes...
It's definitely not the same as it was (well not yet, but getting better all the time).

Mabe I can equate it to burning in new tubes(?). it's getting better, but takes a little time.

Definitely not the same as it was because you didn't use the same frets it came with, you upgraded.

The real problem with something like that is the perception of it with the new frets. Just like everyone else, you get use the feel of the guitar as the frets are gradually wearing down, so you don't notice the erosion until you start getting dead notes. Then after a re-fret, it feels drastically different, and you start thinking, "did I make a mistake doing this?"

 Like you said it will take time.

[Harley Hexxe]

Glad that worked out Richard, I'm scared to death to try refretting...haha

My Explorer could sure use some new frets...they weren't big to begin with, but now....let's just say there are some dents in the cowboy chord area that could probably be leveled out

Dante,

   It sounds like some re-crowning, and a buff and polish might be in the near future for your Explorer. It may not completely eliminate the dents, but it's a lot less money that a re-fret. Eventually though, when the dents get deep enough, there will be no other option but to do a complete re-fret.

This is something I've been focusing on working my skill level up on. When I feel like I'm ready to actually do it, I'll probably try something on one of my MIK Fender Showmaster guitars. I've never really been a fan of the 15" radius those guitars have, so I may pull the frets and redo the radius to around 10"-12." That's the most comfortable with me.

If I end up doing something like that, you can bet I'll be posting pics and documenting here.

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, good idea changing the radius (not so easy with tunamatic bridges etc. the great thing about most strat bridges is you can adjust the saddle heights individually).  Not so easy with Floyd (though they allegedly come with options these days?, I used shims on the Schaller Floyd on my Tele to match the radius.

Changing frets isn't that hard, I've done quite a few, it's not nice on your hands (metal work).  But you do need a few bits and pieces and it's hard to justify the expense of various tools to do just once or twice (like allot of things guitar related).

Getting the right fret wire, pre bent to the radius you want/need makes it soo much easier.  My guitar student wants to re-fret his Fernadez, so I'll do my squire bullet strat at the same time and show him how to do it.  With the Anderson, I wanted someone who does it day in day out for obvious reasons.

@ Dante, sounds like you could get away with a fret level and re-crown.  Which is where you normally start (I've done a shit load of them over the years).  A total re-fret you consider if the level would make the frets too low e.g. after 35+ years.  We could have just changed the 3 dented frets, filed them down to the other fret(s) level and got another 5-7 years(ish).  But I'm glad we went the full monty.  Also the fretboard got to be totally dressed and a few (slight) divets removed.

Also you have to consider the job, as in unbound unfinished FB (Rosewood, Pau Fero, Ebony etc.) relatively easy.  Bound FB, pain in the arse, every fret needs fitting/filing/tang cutting to go over the binding, maple boards lacquered, even more work...

[Harley Hexxe]

Richard,

Floyd bridges do come in two radius options, but generally, the flatter radius is better. With the tune-o-matic bridge you have to get either another bridge, or different saddles and with each one, you file the string grooves to match the radius you're going for. Standard for those bridges is a 12" radius.  A lot of filing no matter which way you go.

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, you can also buy shims to set the FR radius which is what I did for my Tele.  Worked a treat.  I think we were buying some spare "jaws of life", the little blocks that clamp the string in the saddles at the time and they had a range of shims   .  I also bought a tool to help do the intonation but it only works with the original style FRs that have a long clamp bolt.  The Schaller FRs are much shorter and it doesn't fit them.  Not that it matters that mutch, I set the intonation by hand, it's a bit fiddly but you get there in then end.

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Richard,

   I have an old original Floyd on my Silver Series Strat copy. That neck has a 12" radius, but the Floyd is much flatter than that, 16" I think. Still, it works great, so I have no complaints.

  I never heard of those shims you're talking about, but it doesn't appear that I need them either.
 If it's not broken, don't fix it.

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, as you say, if it's working fine then leave it how it is

The shims are in different thicknesses and have a U cut out or a hole to fit around the allen screw that sets the saddle position.  IIRC I used 5, one for A and 2 for D and G (maybe I did the B as well? it was a long time ago).  The Tele was ok but it's probably 8 1/2" or 9" radius and I couldn't get the action where I wanted it.  All good/much better after the shims. Floyd Saddle Shims