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[valleyspirit]

I just noticed last week that some of Randall Smith's (Mesa/Boogie) patents expired. This got me thinking. What happens if my wife puts a stock or modified tube board onto a custom toroidal power supply, and blows off the midi functionality for now, and runs straight analog pots. Could she sell them?

Are these schematics in public domain?

We've got three units that are getting harder to maintain (and sometimes they're erratic). I am not interested in the power supply designs, or the input/output buffers and level meters, etc. We can do that no problem. We're also not so concerned about the digital control, since we'd design around analog pots, and if we ever went digital, we'd first put some modern digipots and encoders on a front panel, and then if we really liked the sound, we'd probably write a new MIDI implementation around a pic or even an arduino.

I'm mainly concerned about the real meat of the design, and the way low voltage was used to control gain levels.

What would happen if someone put a "new" MP-1 (really just an MP-x tube board) in a floor box or single rack, with simple knobs (analog control) and no MIDI, and sold it cheaply, to finance a modern MIDI build?

Would everyone here freak out, or place orders? Would their home be invaded by a mob with pitchforks?

I get the feeling Tod Langer wouldn't enjoy someone ripping off his 3TM, for instance, but if the circuits have been publicly shown for a year with no patents granted, they too are fair game. Does anyone know?

Has anyone looked into the legal standing of various original schematics and/or any of the mods?

I am far from starting a project build, I am just basically missing the HELL out of a clean, fresh box or rack that makes the same sounds as any of our MP-1s. I'm sure you can all relate to that.

Thanks!
Great to see the site back!! Nice work, everyone!!

[valleyspirit]

As I understand US law, in the U.S., you have a one year grace period after any public disclosure in which to file a patent. In almost all other countries, you have to file a patent application in one country before you make any public disclosure.

"Public disclosure" is publications in books and technical journals, and also includes poster sessions, slides, lectures, seminars which are open to the public, letters, and even conversations (except with employees who have non-disclosure agreements). Any written or oral disclosure, even to a single person, counts as a "public disclosure" in most countries, but in the U.S. it has to be in some form of writing or drawing or picture. The disclosure must teach someone "of ordinary skill in the art" how to actually duplicate the thing. An offer for sale, even if it does not teach someone how to make the thing, also stops patentability after one year in the U.S., but in Europe selling things doesn't qualify unless they also show someone how to make it.

So, any public pictures of schematics, or photos which show circuitry, which have been available for more than a year without being patented-- are pretty much fair game. This includes pictures on any sites that come up in Google with a simple search. (You can't say "I didn't know they were on the web" if they come up on the first page of Google.)

Obviously, all the mod pdfs and images which have 2003 and 2004 dates on them, etc-- are all fair game, unless some hobbyist actually paid ridiculous fees to actually patent a mod, which I strongly doubt.

It's also been 20 years since the original designs. So unless ADA still has a magical long-lasting patent, it would appear that the original boards, plus the SS mod, Mod 2 Marshall, Mod 3, Mod 3.666, and Mod 4 are all public domain. Finally, since MarshallJMP is selling the "ADA Depot 3TM (3-Tube) Mod" for quite some time,-- unless he's doing it under license from here, under license from Tod-- I think it's also totally public domain.

Three of those mods in a single rack (yeah, I know-- 7+ tubes....  hehehe) would make an insanely useful 3-channel  preamp, switchable by footswitch or anything that switches simple jacks. I imagine if I did such a thing, I'd throw in a cheap spring reverb with a tube driver, and a tube-driven effects loop.

As a software developer who uses open source code every day, this excites me all kinda ways. Does anyone have any specific information about claims on this stuff?

[rnolan]

Hey valleyspirit, you raise some salient points.  We do have a thread that talks about what one would like in an MP3 (or equivalent). I'm also an analogue die hard, it just sounds sooo much better.
About the legality/morality of using other peoples design, maybe you can use the design as inspiration and improve it ?
I was thinking 2 RU, 6 (ish) tubes, lots (6 (3 x stereo)) of parallel send return loops... all the MP2 options cab sims etc.
Cheers Richard