ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
ADA Preamps => Original MP-1 => Topic started by: TommyVonVoigt on September 28, 2021, 03:56:54 PM
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My MP1 arrived today. Bought it off of Reverb a few days ago. The seller listed it as "Works perfectly. Great condition!" Which is true, except that it sounds thin and lousy and the battery is dead (counts to 128 on startup, and then gives me Error 1 2 3). Otherwise, yeah, it works perfectly! Haha 😆
This is my very first MP1, and the first time I've ever played through one, as well! I can tell right away that the clean sounds are going to check all the right boxes for me, which is the reason I bought it in the first place. I'm trying to get that super compressed 80s clean, and even in the state this thing is in, I can already hear it in there. Preset number 6 was the most telling. Clean, with tons of sustain!
Anyway, I'm going to mod this thing. I've already emailed @MarshallJMP to order parts. I'm going to do:
• 3TM (I'm a gain maniac, and I'm only interested in the Solid State clean anyway)
• Upgraded Transformers
• Noise Mod
• Battery Mod
This will be a fun experiment. I'm getting all my high gain needs from my Synergy Syn-2, for which I have SLO, Powerball and VH4 modules. But if this can give me some more flavors of high gain to play with, that would be a total bonus.
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Cool, good to hear it's coming along :thumb-up:
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My parts arrived today from MJMP. I of course dove right in.
I did the battery mod first, and that was easy. No more error codes!
The transformer upgrade was next, and didn’t give me much trouble at all.
I had intended to do the noise mod and replace the pots next, but I started to worry about that much soldering on the board. I don’t have a fine tip for my soldering station.
Somehow, though, I convinced myself that I’d go ahead and try tackling the 3TM. So I did it.
Finally, the time came to fire it up. I put in a trio of incredible tubes (RCA long black plate in V1, RCA short gray plates in V2 and V3). I wired it up. I plugged it in.
And…
It works!
Unfortunately, it was approaching midnight at this point, so all I could do is mess around for a few minutes at super low volumes. Sounded thin and needs some dialing in for sure. I won’t be able to adjust the internal trim pots until tomorrow, and I’m sure those will make a big difference! I did notice that on factory preset 1 (I didn’t have time to try any others) it plays like butter and artificial harmonics are almost effortless. This seems very, very promising so far.
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:whoohoo!: :thumb-up:
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Had a little more time this morning with the MP-1. I was also able to turn up a bit more. A couple of things I notice:
• The MP-1 is WAYYYY quieter (volume level) than my Syn-2 / Synergy modules. I know that the 3TM is quieter in general, but, still, I find it surprising. I'm sure I can come up with some sort of workaround for that, though.
• I find it a bit challenging to dial in tones right now. I'm getting the impression that it will take some time and a fair amount of fine tuning. Also, I can kinda tell that an EQ really would be a game changer, and allow me to make changes that the MP-1 tone controls won't. There is a grainy / hazy kinda thing going on in the mids that I can't seem to dial out. It's also thinner than my Synergy setup. I think either the MPE-28, or maybe a parametric, will be critical here.
• Yeah...the noise mod...once I crank this thing up, I can tell it really needs it. I'm going to have to get a fine tip for my soldering station and just do it.
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Well everyone, I don't know, I hate to say this, but I think perhaps the MP-1 just isn't for me. I brought it to a full band rehearsal today, and I had a nightmare of a time dialing in any sounds that would work for me. I am really feeling the solid state clean, but the high gain tones just aren't what I'm looking for. I think I might turn around and sell it :(
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Hey Tommy, well that's disappointing. Since you 3TM'd it it should be a gain monster. I'm a bit perplexed that it is (The MP-1 is WAYYYY quieter (volume level) than my Syn-2 / Synergy modules). It shouldn't be. Maybe tubes are the issue :dunno: , I'm not familiar with the RCA tubes you've used. Others like high gain JJs in the 3TM and they generally also like to use a noise gate (e.g. one before input and one in the loop). I've not used a 3TM. I always had heaps of gain with stock MP-1. When I first got a MP-1 (new when they first came out), it took a little while to dial in to what I wanted and it had to be done at stage volume as the sound changes allot as you turn it up. Although most of the tweaking was getting master vol levels right for different patches at stage level. These days I use a MP-2 which has a noise gate built in and is necessary for the MP-2 high gain voices. The MP-2 has allot more gain than a stock MP-1 and also great clean sounds.
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I tried a few killer NOS tubes in it so far, and the volume issue remains no matter what. I can easily match the volume fo the gain channels with the SS channel, of course. That's a quick adjustment. But the output of the gain channels in shockingly lower than the output of my Syn-2. I was really taken aback by that.
The Solid State Clean matches with no trouble, though. Honestly, if I had the rack space to spare, I'd keep the MP-1 just for the SS Cleans. But, rack space is at an absolute premium for me.
It's not a total loss, though. Going down the MP-1 rabbit hole is what led me to discover these Rane EQs, which, so far, seem like they may be a game changer for me.
I don't know...I still plan to think on it for a few more days. The SS Clean is giving me incredible sustain with crystal clear sounds, and it also does that thing you hear on Hysteria, during the clean intro riff, where there is that little bit of bite on the strings. It's hard to describe, but it's really, really cool.
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Hey Tommy,
I've been following this thread, and as a 3TM Mp-1 owner, I can say without a doubt, something is not right with the 3TM you have there.
With my 3TM, the Master set low and OD1 and OD2 set around 3.0, it still has enough distortion gain to peel the paint off the ceiling, and that's with the Clean tube voicing. Forget about the Distortion tube voicing, that one's ridiculous!
May I suggest you go back over the installation instructions and inspect your solder connections, it sounds like something may not be connected very well. Maybe an incomplete or cold solder joint somewhere.
There is no way I could use the term "thin" to describe anything about the tone of my 3TM, it just doesn't apply.
Harley 8)
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At Richard,
I really can't compare the distortion of the 3TM to that of the MP-2, They are really quite different.
Honestly, I think I would describe the 3TM as being a bit more wild and hairy, where the MP-2 is more focused in a pre-determined gain stage.
Just sayin'
Harley 8)
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The output volume of the 3TM is lower than the orginal tubeboard. This is due to the fact that it has a passive tonesection were you get a volume drop.
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Hey Tommy,
I've been following this thread, and as a 3TM Mp-1 owner, I can say without a doubt, something is not right with the 3TM you have there.
With my 3TM, the Master set low and OD1 and OD2 set around 3.0, it still has enough distortion gain to peel the paint off the ceiling, and that's with the Clean tube voicing. Forget about the Distortion tube voicing, that one's ridiculous!
May I suggest you go back over the installation instructions and inspect your solder connections, it sounds like something may not be connected very well. Maybe an incomplete or cold solder joint somewhere.
There is no way I could use the term "thin" to describe anything about the tone of my 3TM, it just doesn't apply.
Harley 8)
That's what has me so confused here. I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea of sending it to someone who is far more knowledgable, and see if I did indeed mess it up.
If nobody is here in the US, maybe I'll just send it to MarshallJMP. Unfortunately, there is nobody local that I can trust. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.
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Maybe if someone with experience with these things got their hands on it, they could tell me if the way this thing is sounding is correct or not...it's also possible it may have some existing problem that I am not aware of, and when I put in the 3TM and the upgraded transformers, I just did not see it. There very well could still be something wrong with this MP-1.
What say you, @marshalljmp? Is there anyone here in the US? Or should I ship it over to you?
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I'd like to weigh in as well, having owned a 3TM and various versions of modded MP-1s as well as bone stock ones.
The MP-1 in stock form has a pretty good amount of Gain. That said, if you try to max it out for everything it's got (OD1=10, OD2=10) in the Tube Dist Voicing it will mush and fart and sound really bad. Trying to work around those max settings with EQ adjustments won't really help either. Having the OD levels near and around 5.0~5.5 (Tube Distortion Voicing) on a stock MP-1 keeps right in its wheelhouse and it's happy there.
Now, the 3TM has a lot more Gain, and (depending on what you do with all that) is both more usable in some ways and less usable in others. Harley said the Tube Dist Voicing is ridiculous and it is. :lol: I also used the Tube Clean voicing for all my distortion sounds and had no need to have "more gain" than that in any band setting.
So after all that I have to admit I'm somewhat confused as to what you're trying to say. Do you mean that the Output of your MP-1 (going to a poweramp and speaker cab) is simply not as loud as some other preamp in the same place? If so, where are you adjusting the front Volume knob to, and can't you turn that up higher?
Or (wait for it........) does your MP-1 have the switch (accessed through a little rectangle hole in the top lid) to toggle between Instrument Level and Line Level and.....it's switched to Instrument Level? :o
Check it out. And after that if it turns out that the 3TM still really isn't your thing, nobody's gonna hassle you about that here (this isn't Faceb**k) You like what you like and don't what you don't. But we'd like to help you make sure everything is up and running like it should and give it a fair shake. :wave:
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I'd like to weigh in as well, having owned a 3TM and various versions of modded MP-1s as well as bone stock ones.
The MP-1 in stock form has a pretty good amount of Gain. That said, if you try to max it out for everything it's got (OD1=10, OD2=10) in the Tube Dist Voicing it will mush and fart and sound really bad. Trying to work around those max settings with EQ adjustments won't really help either. Having the OD levels near and around 5.0~5.5 (Tube Distortion Voicing) on a stock MP-1 keeps right in its wheelhouse and it's happy there.
Now, the 3TM has a lot more Gain, and (depending on what you do with all that) is both more usable in some ways and less usable in others. Harley said the Tube Dist Voicing is ridiculous and it is. :lol: I also used the Tube Clean voicing for all my distortion sounds and had no need to have "more gain" than that in any band setting.
So after all that I have to admit I'm somewhat confused as to what you're trying to say. Do you mean that the Output of your MP-1 (going to a poweramp and speaker cab) is simply not as loud as some other preamp in the same place? If so, where are you adjusting the front Volume knob to, and can't you turn that up higher?
Or (wait for it........) does your MP-1 have the switch (accessed through a little rectangle hole in the top lid) to toggle between Instrument Level and Line Level and.....it's switched to Instrument Level? :o
Check it out. And after that if it turns out that the 3TM still really isn't your thing, nobody's gonna hassle you about that here (this isn't Faceb**k) You like what you like and don't what you don't. But we'd like to help you make sure everything is up and running like it should and give it a fair shake. :wave:
Yeah, the issue is that, when I use the tube distortion voicing, the output level is far lower than the SS, and also wayyy lower than the Syn-2 preamp. And, this is with the output level knob maxed out, and the master gain on 10. It’s also one of the later versions of the MP-1 (no switch on the top, the rear jack is instrument level, etc.).
I don’t know, maybe I do need to play around with the clean tube channel some more. Perhaps that’s where the magic is for me. But seriously, even before I modded it, this is how it behaved. If anything, the 3TM improved things slightly. And I noticed that the transformer upgrade really seemed to wake up the SS clean. That was previously rather dead and flubby sounding by comparison to where it is at now.
I really would prefer that there is something actually wrong with the unit. Because that would mean it could be fixed. I love the functionality. I even love the look of it. I especially love that it premiered in 1987, which is like my favorite year (9 years old that year!). So, yeah, I’d love to try to make this work. If it turns out that it’s just not the right preamp for me, that is a bummer, but, so it goes sometimes.
Anyone in the NYC area that really knows these well?
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Hey Tommy, the output level of the tube voicings (clean or dist) should not be lower than the SS, if anything it should be the other way round. Something isn't quite right. I'd send it to MJMP :thumb-up:
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Hey Tommy,
If the MP-1 was having issues before you installed the mods, then more than likely, the issue is still there. It was never addressed before you installed the mods, so it still goes on even with your hard work. I wished I had known that before you went to all the trouble you did to install these mods.
Even a stock MP-1 operating like it was originally meant to does not sound thin in any way, unless you dial it in that way, and you pretty much have to turn everything almost all the way down to get it like that. It's a robust and full-bodied preamp that was powerful enough to turn the entire amplifier industry on it's ear when it was introduced in 1987. (As was evident in 1988 when all the other single space rack preamps began to show up on the market).
There is something in the un-modded circuitry that is already goofy with that preamp. Perhaps you might be able to get MJMP to help walk you through some checks with that preamp to try to figure out what it might be. I'm pretty sure this issue has come up in the past with stock MP-1's and it's been addressed here on the Forum. You might be able to find it in some old posts, but I would run this by MJMP regardless, and let him point you in what might be the best direction to figure this out. The only thing I can say at this point, is that you have already narrowed it down to an issue with the tube voicings, since you said the SS voicing sounded very good, that takes that part of it out of the equation. That also means the issue is common to both clean and distortion tube voices, if they sounded thin before the mods. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm going to guess that it's somewhere in the power to the tubes circuit. I would start with a meter on the tube filament voltage to see if you've brought it up with the transformer mod. The stock MP-1 ran the tube filaments at a lower voltage to begin with, around 6.3 volts if I recall correctly. So I would check the filament voltages at all 3 tubes, and also, check your grounds to both circuitry and chassis for cold or incomplete solder joints. Weak tubes sound like dogshit on razor blades. I would also check the output voltages at the transformer to be sure it's not damaged in any way.
Harley 8)
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Thank you :)
I emailed MJMP directly about this. I do hope I can get to the bottom of things!
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Hey Tommy, sorry for the late reply, (was pretty busy yesterday) but I just send you an email with things to do. So let me know.
BTW do you have a multimeter, scope ? Just to know what we can do.
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When I got my unmodded unit it sounded pretty good. And then I got the noise mod and others installed, and I have this same issue (not 3TM). There must have been something gone wrong in the modding process. Let me know what you find out!
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We’re still working through it. MJMP has had me do several measurements, and so far, everything totally checks out.
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I've decided to move it on, guys. Kind of a bummer, but I can't find anything wrong with it, everything works as it should, and I just don't like the way it sounds. I made a post in the for sale section, if anyone is interested.
But hey, like was saying, the cool thing is I discovered the Rane EQs because of this site! So, honestly, I consider this a huge win, still!
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Hey Tommy,
That IS a bummer. Sorry you didn't find out what's keeping a lid on the beast.
The transformer mod you did, is that the MDRT?
Harley 8)
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Yep, the MDRP. I bought all the best stuff. I wanted to have it be the best MP-1 possible.
I really am bummed out. If I'm right, and this is simply a case of me not being a good match for an MP-1, that is super disappointing. All signs pointed to this being the perfect preamp for me. Like, it's made for exactly what I like and what I want to do. But, I also realize that sometimes the gear and the player just aren't a good match, and it's no knock against either. For example there are some Synergy modules that have near universal praise, that I just couldn't get a sound I liked out of. It wasn't the modules...it just wasn't the right match.
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Hey Tommy,
Yeah, I get that. I've always said taste is subjective because it's true. No harm no foul. For all you've put into it, you're asking a very reasonable price IMHO.
Harley 8)
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Just throwing this idea out there, and I posted in my for sale thread as well - if any of you happen to have a spare, stock MP-1, that you know for sure is in perfect working order and sounds the way these things should sound, I would totally swap straight up. A stock unit, assessed by one of you guys that is actually familiar with these, for this modded unit, and all the parts I list in my for sale post.
I think I am always going to be wondering, otherwise.