Tubes for 3TM?

[Rusty]

Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output.

I mean,, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product from anything that is associated with that part of the world. I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market.

I know that tube rolling is a very subjective matter. The NOS idea is very fast becoming a shoot crap in my opinion and way way too over rated.
A lot of the new valves on the market are very good and a lot of the older so called NOS European and USA ones especially from the 70's are no better.

Some of that knowledge comes from my older friend who worked upon TV's and radio from the 60's till the 90's who seen it all in his career.

[Systematic Chaos]

Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output... I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market....

Ja, that sums it up. Just tried to put it a bit more basic... ;-)

I mean, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product ...

>> until VW f%$&ed it all up  8) 8) 8)

Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!

So just to clear this up, when looking from above the V1 actually goes in the right and the V2 in the left correct? So you jave the TAD in the V1 and the Mullard in the V2?

Yap

[Rusty]

Hey guys sorry for jumpling in here, But am I wrong or right? to my belief is that TAD has their own stage in the Shuguang factory and their tubes are not the run of the mill re-branded tubes but made to TAD's specs with a higher quality valve than the normal output... I am under the impression that TAD has instructed Shuguang to only provide the best under that ethos in order to be the best current production valve on the market....

Ja, that sums it up. Just tried to put it a bit more basic... ;-)

I mean, German engineering by name holds it's own in many regards and demands a very high quality product ...

>> until VW f%$&ed it all up  8) 8) 8)

Here it is in one my MP1s in the V1 slot with a NOS Mullard (Blackburn) ECC83...yummie tone!

So just to clear this up, when looking from above the V1 actually goes in the right and the V2 in the left correct? So you jave the TAD in the V1 and the Mullard in the V2?

Yap

Ta, ár mór, agús,  Rolls Royce went to BMW.   

[MarshallJMP]

I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.

[rabidgerry]

Uhhhh I should have stayed in Irish class Rusty!!  lol

um druid an doras?  lol

anyways, aye VW screwed um.  Kinda unlike them to be honest.  They'll survive though.  f*ck sake every Taxi in Northern Ireland is a f**king Skoda (VW in disguise)  and isn't Audi/Lamborghini VW also?  They aint going bust anytime soon.

Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along



Hey EL I am guessing you thought V1 was actually V2 the same as me?????  Or did you know the one closest the input was v1?

I should have known this since I know that the one closest is generally V1 but the fact the MP1 tubes go inward rather than expand left to right (like my Rockmaster) confused me lol  what a dumb ass!!!

edit..........
I was under the impression Tubes from the olden days  were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.

[El Chiguete]

Hey EL I am guessing you thought V1 was actually V2 the same as me?????  Or did you know the one closest the input was v1?

I kind of remembered one time reading this on another post but just wanted to make sure.

Since it´s the TADs in V1, that´s the tube that sets the overall character. V2 and V3 just "amplify"/"distort" the initial signal by running it through their Triodes....

Funny you mention this because just last week I was visiting my amp builder/guru friend to test a guitar we build for himself and we went on a looong conversation about tube placements because he's main amp he uses to test guitars is his own build Dumble replica and he has put additional knobs to control some vakues of the amp that normally you build and set to a specific position but with the added knobs he can control it to get the tones he want. Basicly on the overdrive section normally you see a gain and level knobs (what on an MP-1 is the OD2 and Master Level controls) so to set the gain comming out from V1 and howmuch amplification goes out of the V2 (since this one is just for added amplification and not to affect tone) but normally when an amp is build you fix the value of the signal that is let in the input of the V1 in the inside of the amp (on the MP-1 you use OD1 for this), and this added flexibillity is a big advantage that we all love on our MP-1s... AND we have it programmable!  :whoohoo!:

[Systematic Chaos]

I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.

Hot-agree on that!!!

...
Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along
...
I was under the impression Tubes from the golden days  were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.

Yap, that last clip you posted sounded best to me...full and rich.
That was the one you had the TAD WA (RT008 or RT080; both the same tube but the RT080 being selected to higher "premium" specs) in V1.

Whereas some of the current production tubes are really nice, MJMP has it spot-on with lots of NOS glassware from the 60s and 70s being far superior in terms of manufacturing, tolerances, quality....and sound.
Late 60s Mullard (Blackburn-Plant) ECC83/12AX7 are deemed some of the holy grails.

[Rusty]

Uhhhh I should have stayed in Irish class Rusty!!  lol

um druid an doras?  lol

Nil fiberbe !  LOL.  :)

[Rusty]

I have to disagree with this,tubes of the 70's were a lot better then current productions.

Hot-agree on that!!!

...
Right so SC you were talking about my clips?  That means I had a TAD in v1 all along
...
I was under the impression Tubes from the golden days  were far less reliable and those today where better in that regard?  Can't comment on their sound of course.  Mind you some crazy fools are selling old stock on ebay.

Yap, that last clip you posted sounded best to me...full and rich.
That was the one you had the TAD WA (RT008 or RT080; both the same tube but the RT080 being selected to higher "premium" specs) in V1.

Whereas some of the current production tubes are really nice, MJMP has it spot-on with lots of NOS glassware from the 60s and 70s being far superior in terms of manufacturing, tolerances, quality....and sound.
Late 60s Mullard (Blackburn-Plant) ECC83/12AX7 are deemed some of the holy grails.

I think that it is down to the most inportant variable, transconductance. Ra (Anode resistance) never changes much and gain is always consistent. It is true though that lots of the older tubes hold strong and seem to last a longer while in that regard.

[rabidgerry]

I will have to re listen SC, I remember it being nice but since I took the Bugera out the output was  A LOT LESS.  When I had the ruby's and Bug in I felt a lot more "throateyness" which I liked.

Originally I thought I had the Bug in v1 with those Ruby's but I was obviously insane and made a mistake.  So really I was getting the tone of the Rubys and a big Gain boost from the Bug at the last stage.

So to test what the Bug really sounds like I will have to swap them all about.  At the moment I am running a Tad Bug and Ruby.  And it sounds f**king good to me.  I forget the order as I'm getting sick opening and closing.



Tubes from the 70's being better.......................I have no idea.  I just heard something similar to what Rusty had said in an earlier post.  At the end of the day if you get a good sound using todays tubes then it doesn't matter.  Hell if you use some really shit gear and get a good sound using it then it doesn't matter.  As long as it sounds good 

[rnolan]

(Richard, would you say then it would be worth buying tubes then that were close to the original mp1 style tubes?)
Hey RG, yes and no... depends what you want. If someone explores these tube posts, they can probably narrow down tube choice (a bit) based on many of our experiences/posts. I found the original Chinese tubes very good and very versatile, not quite as "flat/transparent" as the power amps (e.g. B200s) but you could take them anyway you want (clean. country, rock, high gain rock (e.g. metal) etc). They covered all the bases well.  However, if you find a tube that you like that suits how you play (e.g. for me that's the Mullard long plates in a MP2 MMMMmmmm), then go with that (they all sound so different (well to me anyway  ).

[rnolan]

Hey All, re earlier (and sometimes NOS tubes), if you dig back into the earlier tube posts you'll find one I put up that talks about where tubes have been and now got to...
There are 2 main differences IMHO between the older tubes (which are now either 2nd hand or NOS (new old stock)). Back then all the tube makers had their own metallurgy departments (so they made all sorts of metal alloy combinations to get the best electrical response (anodes, cathodes, grids etc), but the main difference these days is how long the tubes are pumped (how good is the vacuum).  Modern tubes sound fine (the metallurgy is being replicated (largely)), they just don't last anywhere near as long coz they are pumped for 30 mins instead of 2 to 3 hours as they used to be. And of course the manufacturers want them to wear out so we have to buy new ones.  There is also a difference in the metallurgy and that also has an affect. MJMP is quite correct when he says the old tubes were better, they were just better made (good metal(s), good pumping, thicker glass), the modern designs are predominantly the same just won't last as long (or in some cases sound as good).

[MarshallJMP]

I have to agree with R 

[Harley Hexxe]

Hey Richard,

    I definitely have to agree with that +1

    Case in point: Russian made Mullard RI's. I tried a pair of those in my Classic, and after 3 months they were as dead as you could get. I love the tones that Mullards can produce, but if I have to change them every 3 months, then I'm better off going with some other kind of tube that will give me a tone close to that, or maybe something with more bottom end warmth, (the Classic really needs that), that will last longer.

    Harley 8)

[rnolan]

Hey Harley, maybe you got a dud pair  , I've had them in my MP2(s) for a few years now and still going strong. Did your other tubes burn out so fast ? It has to be either tubes weren't good (hey MikeB and I had a Boogie flagship SPAX7 die in a very short time), or something else is wrong (can be dust in the tube socket, IIRC MJMP advised not to spray tube sockets to clean them as that can attract crap which can cause your tubes to burn out prematurely, his solution, change the tube sockets, don't try to clean them, makes good sense really, the only time (in general) the connectors in the tube sockets are exposed is the brief period when you're changing tubes). So if you did spray the sockets before you put in the Mullards ? that a possible scenario.
Cheers R