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Fixed boofy bass, at last!

Started by Kazinator, October 27, 2024, 12:57:08 PM

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rnolan

Hey Peter, so you use the eq to adapt for different guitars (understandably).  A more normal approach is to use different MP-1 presets optimised for each guitar.  So what Dante used to do (and probably still does) is have a bank (of 10 patches) for each guitar.  This way you can use the same basic patch(s) but tweak them to suit each guitar.  But as you said, it's not the eq up front causing the bass boom, you tested that.

You could easily do away with the dsl and run in stereo (much better sound BTW, MP-1s sound way better in stereo).  What does the DSL give you that you like/want?  To me it's a complication you don't need.  If you are chasing some output distortion/tone from its power amp stage, the MP-1 doesn't need it, and it may be part of your bass problem??

If you put your torpedo cab sim thing in the MP-1 loop, then all the sounds after that will be suitable for full range monitors.  This is how my friend MikeB sets up his MP-1, he has a ADA GCS-2 (cab sim) in the MP-1 loop, L/R outs > G Maj > stereo input (for recording and/or monitoring with full range speakers).  So the G Maj is then affecting the cab sim'd signal.  Also he can use the RTM abilities of the G Maj (e.g. stereo vol control).  He turns the loop on for recording etc. and off if he's going into his B200s stereo power amp/cabs.

The MP-1 loop is not liked by everyone, it's serial and a bit finicky to set up.  The level control is a dual ganged pot (but with one knob) so increasing the send deceases the return (and vis versa).  This is so it can work with inst or line level Fx (but not both at the same time).  But it does work well to insert a (mono) cab sim for recording but maintain stereo output.
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

hotguit

#16
Can i put a load box/cab sim (torpedo live) in ada mp1's loop?
Are you sure?  It is a load box so the power amp sees a load. Never seen a load box in a preamp loop. It is not intended for that use. It is like put an attenuator in a preamp loop.
And power amp?
Please explain me; i do not understand.
Thank you.
Peter

Harley Hexxe

I think Richard is referring to a recording setup.

I've never tried a cab sim in my effects loops, but then again, I only use my MicroCabs live, and they are always between my power amp and speaker cabs.

MicroCabs are not attenuators though, they are simply speaker cab emulators for running direct into a mixing desk, while using your live rig.

If your Torpedo is an attenuator, then use that after your power amp.
I only have two brain cells left, ...and I'm saving them for the weekend!

rnolan

Hey Peter, no, don't put a reactive load box in the loop.  Sorry, I was thinking of other torpedo cab sims but I just looked up yours and it's designed to go after the amp, provide a speaker load and pretend to be a 4 x 12" cab miked with a SM57 which it then outputs at line level.  So you are using it as intended but then you are stuck with mono and the sound its cab sim makes.  It's possible that this is introducing the extra bass as it's pretending to be a British quad box, and quad boxes tend to be bassy  :dunno: .

Normal/other cab sims which take line level (like the ADA GCS-2/3 etc.) you can put in the loop and some have the option to do either i.e. speaker input or line input.

So a simple stereo setup (because MP-1s sound way better in stereo) would be use a TRS > 2 x TS lead (basically an insert lead) from the MP-1 headphone out into 2 mixer channels > full range monitors. The headphone out (designed to drive full range headphones) has rudimentary cab sim applied and takes off the harsh top end.

Then bring in your Fx one at a time, i.e. the parallel Fxs with the mixer, and last the series Fxs in the MP-1 loop.  The parallel Fx will be affecting the MP-1 cab sim'd out (as that's what plugged into the mixer) and the series Fx will be affecting the normal MP-1 signal in its loop.

Just trying to 1. pair it down so you locate where the bass boost is coming from and 2. make it stereo.



Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

hotguit

Hi
Thank you.
Yes, Torpedo live is a professional high quality reactive load box/cab sim/IR loader where you can upload different cabs and mics (not only 4x12 and SM57; i actually use Celestion IRs of Creamback, V30, Greenback and G12H30 speakers. It depends of the tone i'm after). It does not add anything to the tone.
Even DSL's power amp is quite linear (however linear the amplification section of an amplifier may be. Leon Todd on his YT channel likes DSL power amp with his ADA MP 1s)
Most likely the issue is due to some of the (very old) fx rack units in the chain or in some impedance mismatch (i suppose).
I'll try do follow your suggestion and add fxs one at a time in the signal chain.
If the problem is in the ADA MP 1 itself (it is a stock unit with Noise mod V2) maybe MarshallJMP can help me.
Thank you for your help
Peter

Kazinator

According to the manual, the Torpedo Live thing has a 10 kΩ line input, as well as an 8 Ω input for the load simulation.

hotguit

Yes; it has a power amp digital simulator so you can put a preamp in it and use its digital power amp. (maybe i can try it in ada Mp1's loop for stereo output...)
Anyway this afternoon i found and fixed the problem; It was a bad power tube in DSL. Replaced the tubes with a matched pair of EH green logo EL34 and averithing is ok now.
Thak you to everybody.
Peter

Harley Hexxe

I'm glad you found the issue Peter  :thumb-up:

Just a footnote to something Richard said that I don't completely agree with, you can use the MP-1 in stereo, but you just bypass the loop altogether. That was the only way I could get my Eventide to work with it. I just used the stereo outputs into the Eventide and serialed everything from that point on. Effectively, what I was doing there was placing my effects between the preamp and power amp. The only way I could parallel effects was with Rane SM-26 Splitter Mixers. It was a lot more cabling, but it worked.
I only have two brain cells left, ...and I'm saving them for the weekend!

rnolan

Hey Peter, great news, really glad you got it fixed :woohoo2: :thumb-up: .  Funny how it sometimes turns out to be a tube.
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

Kazinator

Quote from: hotguit on November 01, 2024, 11:32:38 AMReplaced the tubes with a matched pair of EH green logo EL34 and averithing is ok now.

Great; and so, yes, you might like the bass mod where we move the -3dB point from 300-something down to 195 Hz. But you have so much gear with EQ, that it might not amount to anything in that context.

hotguit

Quote from: Harley Hexxe on November 01, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI'm glad you found the issue Peter  :thumb-up:

Just a footnote to something Richard said that I don't completely agree with, you can use the MP-1 in stereo, but you just bypass the loop altogether. That was the only way I could get my Eventide to work with it. I just used the stereo outputs into the Eventide and serialed everything from that point on. Effectively, what I was doing there was placing my effects between the preamp and power amp. The only way I could parallel effects was with Rane SM-26 Splitter Mixers. It was a lot more cabling, but it worked.
:thumb-up: