• Welcome to ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear.
 

Behringer FCB1010 - Analogue Switching for Rockmaster Preamp

Started by rabidgerry, June 01, 2022, 01:42:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

MarshallJMP

I guess you can set those FCB switches to momentary or latching too? How are they set?

rnolan

So that confirms what I was thinking/saying. But I've been calling the peavey FS crunch to ultra button/switch = Sw2 (not 1) and the clean bypass button/switch = Sw1 as this lines up with the wiring diagram.  Tip changes clean bypass and ring changes Crunch Ultra.  It doesn't mater as long as you plug the right TS plug into the correct FCB jacks to get what you have programmed to work.

So with FCB Sw1 = on and FCB Sw2 = off (as you have programmed it) AND Tip mono TS lead (so tip to tip) in FCB Sw1 socket and Ring mono TS lead (so ring to tip) in FCB Sw2 socket, it should select either crunch or Ultra when you select the patch and whatever stomp button you have set to toggle FCB Sw2 will toggle between Ultra and Crunch.  Pressing FCB Sw1 stomp button (turns Sw1 off) to select clean (and bypass crunch ultra) just like the peavey FS

If when you try it, changing patch initially selects clean and not crunch/ultra, then you just need to reverse the sw1 and 2 on off settings I've listed.

@MJMP, set to latching.  Where momentary might be useful is playing a song in either Crunch or Ultra mode and you just want clean for a few notes/barres, if the clean switch was set to momentary, you could press it to change to clean then release to go back...

Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

Quote from: MarshallJMP on June 09, 2022, 07:10:53 AM
I guess you can set those FCB switches to momentary or latching too? How are they set?

Yes I have them programmed for latching but yes you can have momentary should you wish.

Quote from: rnolan on June 10, 2022, 02:41:08 AM
So that confirms what I was thinking/saying. But I've been calling the peavey FS crunch to ultra button/switch = Sw2 (not 1) and the clean bypass button/switch = Sw1 as this lines up with the wiring diagram.  Tip changes clean bypass and ring changes Crunch Ultra.  It doesn't mater as long as you plug the right TS plug into the correct FCB jacks to get what you have programmed to work.

So with FCB Sw1 = on and FCB Sw2 = off (as you have programmed it) AND Tip mono TS lead (so tip to tip) in FCB Sw1 socket and Ring mono TS lead (so ring to tip) in FCB Sw2 socket, it should select either crunch or Ultra when you select the patch and whatever stomp button you have set to toggle FCB Sw2 will toggle between Ultra and Crunch.  Pressing FCB Sw1 stomp button (turns Sw1 off) to select clean (and bypass crunch ultra) just like the peavey FS

If when you try it, changing patch initially selects clean and not crunch/ultra, then you just need to reverse the sw1 and 2 on off settings I've listed.

@MJMP, set to latching.  Where momentary might be useful is playing a song in either Crunch or Ultra mode and you just want clean for a few notes/barres, if the clean switch was set to momentary, you could press it to change to clean then release to go back...

Ok well I still haven't been allowed out until I tested negative from covid so that has only happened today.  I can test once I get into the rehearsal room again.
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

Hey RG, how's your health? hopefully COVID didn't knock you around too much?  :wave:
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

I'm fine now Richard.  The worst was in the first 4 days after testing positive.  Then basically spent the next week with sniffles a bit of a cough.  Fine now though, thanks for asking  :thumb-up:

Right so I didn't actually get to re-program the fcb1010.  But I did switch the pedals about and even with one on and one off nothing happened.  However if I pulled the switch 1 cable out half way I was able to switch between two of the channels.  I can't remember now which ones.  I think I got Ultra and Crunch.  With this pulled half way out on switch 1 switch 2 did nothing.  Then if I pulled switch 2 jack half way out I was able to get clean, but I couldn't switch back to the gain channels unless that jack got pushed all the way in again.  Weird!!!  Still convinced I need to make some sort of a custom cable.  But then I dunno  :dunno:
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

Glad you're feeling better  :whoohoo!: .

Well that is weird.  The FCB jacks can take a mono or stereo plug though not sure how they are wired inside. It should work if your lead is wired correctly (check it in case?)

It should be: 
RM        Sw1     Sw2   
Tip >     Tip   
Ring >               Tip 
S  >       S          S
When you pull the jack half out it will join the Tip and Ring inside the FCB jack So not sure whats going on there that makes it sort of work.  If the lead is wired correctly, it should work, see attached circuit diagram of the FS, it's quite simple. 

Remember though when you select a patch you have set the Sw1 and Sw2 settings in the patch so this is where it should start at before you start toggling the FCB stomp buttons.


Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

The cable I'm using is fine, it's a trs to two ts ends cable, so I stereo y cable I guess.  I have used it with a different foot switch (behringer ) to control the rockmaster channels easily.

ere is a video where I had one patch saved with switch 2 on.  Then played about with switches 3 and 4 to control turning the relays 1 and 2 of and on but as you can see it's not working right.  I got clean and ultra channels this time and no crunch.

"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

Ok so when you have FCB3 on it selects clean (and it shouldn't matter what FCB4 is on or off) when you first pressed 3, 4 was off.  When you turn 3 off it goes back to (or should do) whatever 4 is set to, seems off is Ultra and on is Crunch.  You didn't toggle 4 while 3 is off (only when 3 was on).  3 has to be off for 4 to work and it (4) should switch between Ultra and Crunch but only when 3 is off.  Turning 4 on/off (as you were doing) will not do anything if 3 is on (which selects clean and bypasses the other switch (4) setting).
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

I hope you are right.  Why my simple mind can't work any of this out  :facepalm:

Ok so at no stage in that video did I I have 3 (switch 1) off and 4 (switch 2) on.  Right I shall try this.

Now if this works they way it is currently programmed will be a little bit of a pain in the ass. 

The extra measures I need to take are to make sure I turn off switch 1 when I activate switch 2 via pedal 4.  And then do the same for pedal 3 and have that turn off switch 2.  Currently I have both pedals programmed to turn on switch 1 and switch 2 respectfully but when each is pressed it will not interfere with the other switch.  This can be changed though so I'll give this a go.
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

So a couple of more thoughts.  First swap the 2 ts leads over so 1 is 2 and 2 is one.  Then FCB 3 and 4 will look the same as the peavey foot switch, i.e. clean/bypass on the right ultra/crunch on the left (you don't have to but maybe it will help you remember which is which better?).  When you select patch 7, it switches sw2 on, so sw2 must be ultra/crunch (and you hear that) and this worked (only) because sw1 was off in patch 7.   

So you selected 7 and had ultra but the leds on 3 & 4 didn't turn on (4 should have been on if it was latched/active), I think they don't start to work properly until first press like CC pedal latching.
When you first pressed 3, the light came on but it didn't change to clean the first time seems it was silence until you pressed 7 again, but now that switch is active? Latched? 
You then pressed 3 off then on again and got clean, you then toggle 4 on/off and no change (because clean is selected (3 is on)). By now if you had switched 3 off, 4 would toggle between ultra and crunch and, if 3 and 4 need to be latched, they would both have been because you pressed them a few times. 

I suspect if you change patch 7 to be off off (instead of now off on) it will select crunch (assuming sw 2 on = ultra).  If you change patch 7 to be on off or on on it will select clean. 

Maybe just program a few patches with the switches set to pick the rockmaster mode you want: 

sw1   sw2 
off     off = crunch 
off     on = Ultra 
on     off = clean 
on     on = clean 

Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

So not quite sure what is going on here but I'm still convinced a custom cable has to be made for this although I hope I am wrong.
Ok so changed the FCB to turn off the SW1 when I hit SW2 although now I am thinking it would be best to perhaps leave this as only turning SW2 on and off and not have any affect on SW1.  The results I got where the same as before.  However if I unplugged the jack from SW1 I was actually able to switch via pedal 4 turning SW2 on and off between Ultra and Crunch channels.  Plugging a jack from the cable back into SW1 put the clean channel back on again.  Pretty confusing.

Not really sure what else to try.  One thing is for sure though, I can access the channels via the SW's albeit in a round about and non use friendly way.

More experimenting is required.
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

That is confusing. The Sw1 jack removed should be the same as turning it off with FCB3.  To toggle between Ultra and Crunch Sw1 has to be off. If Sw1 is on (Clean) then Sw2 shouldn't make any difference.  If a custom cable is required, I'm not sure what it would need to be  :dunno: .  The only thing I can think of given your result by removing Sw1 jack is it has something to do with the FCB jacks accepting TS or TRS plugs.  I've mulled that over and can't work out why or how to manipulate that correctly or if it should make any difference particularly when Sw2 toggles Ultra and Crunch by switching on and off as it should.  So then why does Sw1 not toggle Clean and bypass (bypass = Sw2 will work now, Clean = Sw2 wont work (do anything)) and you have to pull the jack to make it go Off and select bypass activating Sw2 changes. 

It may be worth trying my other suggestion by making 3 different patches with the various switch combinations set in them to select the different modes: 

Sw1  Sw2 
Off     Off  = Ultra 
Off     On  = Crunch 
On     Off or On =Clean 

If this doesn't work then reverse Sw1 and Sw2 settings in the patches and it should.  Maybe that's the issue and all the setting are upside down? 

e.g. 
Sw1  Sw2 
On  On = Ultra 
On  Off = Crunch 
Off  On or Off = Clean 



Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rnolan

Another thought I had which relates back to what I was thinking in previous posts re CC latching and possibly why it's a bit confusing. 

When you change to a patch that has the Sw1 and Sw2 settings programmed, they take precedence over the Sw1 & 2 settings regardless of what FCB 3 and 4 are set to (but the FCB switch leds don't change to reflect the settings in the patch (i.e. select P7 Sw1 off and Sw2 on, the FCB4 led should be on but in the video, it isn't thus it's not latched yet and P7 settings take precedence).  In the video, you had to toggle FCB 3 on and off the on again to select Clean.  With CC latching, typically you need to select the state for it to then take over from the programmed or default state. 

So when you selected patch 7, that set Sw1 off (bypass) and Sw 2 on (Ultra).  If patch 7 had Sw1 on it should select Clean (regardless of Sw2 setting in the patch (try this to see if I'm right)). 

So after changing to patch 7, you had to turn FCB 3 (Sw1) on then off (now the off should latch as it is the same as the patch, so even though Sw1 was off (FCB3 off) when the patch was selected, it hadn't latched yet and you had to switch it on then off again for it to latch and now take control from the initial patch setting.
Studio Rig: Stuff; Live Rig: More Stuff; Guitars: A few

rabidgerry

I think this might also be a little puzzling for you Richard as you might not be aware that by pressing each Pedal you can also get  it to affect the other switch.  So I hadn't given much thought to these really but I now know in order for it to work properly, I need to have Pedal 3 programmed in such away that when I activate it, it will not affect Pedal 4.

This would mean then if I have all presets programmed to have only SW2 from scratch that when I hit pedal 3 I will then end up with SW1 and SW2 on which is a combo that means we will get clean.

Then in order to get the distortion channels I press Pedal 3 again to turn off SW1 and again have no affect on SW2 and as that was already on then we will be left with Ultra.

So in order for Pedal 4 to work properly also it needs to be switched to only affect SW2 and not have any affect on SW1.  This way then I can switch between Crunch and Ultra.

So where I think things where going wrong before was I had Pedal 4 programmed to turn off SW1 when I pressed it, which mean I was getting SW1 ON and SW2 OFF at one press and SW2 ON and SW1 OFF at another press and that basically meant I got clean and Ultra only.

So by taking away Pedal 4's SW1 OFF instruction you can flick through the channels if you use Pedal 3 to basically change to clean and use Pedal 4 to go between Crunch and Ultra.

Pedal 3 = Clean/Distorted
Pedal 4 = Crunch/Ultra (but only is Pedal 3 has turned off SW1).

No I have not put this into practice yet as it had only dawned on me when I had left the practice room, but I figured it out when I got home and thought why does one cable in SW2 work Crunch and Ultra but when I plug in the cable into SW1 as well I got back to clean and then looked at how I had it programmed.  So I have to make Pedal 3 and 4 only operate each respective SW.

Also to refer to your thoughts on patches taking precedence, well I have the patches programmed in a way that they have no affect on any of the stomp box Pedal 1-4 but also will turn off Pedal 5 if say I stomp on them.  This is because I use Pedal 5 as my Solo pedal and in that it turns on Volume boost and Detune.  So technically if Pedals 3 and 4 are on this should have not change if I press the patch pedal again.  However this is negated by the simple fact that I have programmed in each patch pedal to always turn SW2 on and SW1 off so I will always be on Ultra to start with.

See below on Preset/pedal 7 SW2 will be on when I press that pedal and SW1 off
Then Pedal 3 has SW2 greyed out meaning no affect and Pedal 4 has SW1 greyed out meaning the same.






"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

http://snw.lonningdal.no/peavey/rm-tctp/

Check this out, a lot of info on the rockmaster including a schematic of the footswitch.

http://snw.lonningdal.no/peavey/rm-tctp/Peavey_Rock_Master_Foot_Switch_Schematic.jpg