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Miscellaneous => ADA Sound/Audio Clips & Bits => MP1 => Topic started by: 2112 on November 08, 2017, 05:45:32 AM

Title: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: 2112 on November 08, 2017, 05:45:32 AM
I'm preaching to the choir here, but here's another clip demonstrating what the MP-1 does best; cranked 80's tones. I run over a few common tips and tricks (presence and chorus).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1v2EPxXiWQ
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 08, 2017, 08:51:25 AM
THAT was some really NICE playing, very Gilbert sounding.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: rnolan on November 09, 2017, 12:37:59 AM
Nice  :thumb-up: , as Angry Anderson said in the Alberts Blood and Thunder doco, no one attacks a guitar like an Australian  >:D .

I used to use the rate = 0 depth 100 when I used MP1 (for many years) it works well, adds a very short delay without the modulation (rate). IIRC when we were posting about this a while ago MJMP told us what the delay time was  :dunno: .

When I moved to MP2 I used it as well for a while, but more recently, I stopped as with the MP2 chorus you get a bit of flanging, particularly (more noticeable) when you run stereo into the same cab.  MP1 chorus is a little different and doesn't flange.

The presence tip is a good one, I was doing that too but didn't think about it much, it just sounded good  :metal: .

And I see a Digi 002 in the rack, thus you use protools (it won't work with anything else  :facepalm: )..

What were the patch settings you were using BTW (many will like to know LoL)
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: 2112 on November 09, 2017, 12:48:40 AM
THAT was some really NICE playing, very Gilbert sounding.

I watched the intense rock VHS a lot growing up (which also factors into the ADA love).

Nice  :thumb-up: , as Angry Anderson said in the Alberts Blood and Thunder doco, no one attacks a guitar like an Australian  >:D .

I used to use the rate = 0 depth 100 when I used MP1 (for many years) it works well, adds a very short delay without the modulation (rate). IIRC when we were posting about this a while ago MJMP told us what the delay time was  :dunno: .

When I moved to MP2 I used it as well for a while, but more recently, I stopped as with the MP2 chorus you get a bit of flanging, particularly (more noticeable) when you run stereo into the same cab.  MP1 chorus is a little different and doesn't flange.

The presence tip is a good one, I was doing that too but didn't think about it much, it just sounded good  :metal: .

And I see a Digi 002 in the rack, thus you use protools (it won't work with anything else  :facepalm: )..

What were the patch settings you were using BTW (many will like to know LoL)

I'd love to know the delay time, I use a Fractal AX8 most of the time now and it would be cool to cop that trick in there too.

Settings
OD1 4.6
OD2 7.0
Master 5.5
Bass 2
Middle -4
Treble 4
Presence 8

The Digi is just filling space in the rack at the moment, I'm using an Apollo Twin with Pro Tools 12; IIRC Avid changed from requiring hardware to be synced to using an iLok (slightly more convenient I guess).


Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: rnolan on November 09, 2017, 04:33:23 AM
It's chorus so it will be around 10 to 30 ish ms, very short, if you dig around you may find the post, you can call up either mine or MJMPs profile and select show posts (but there will be quite a few...) or trawl the MP1 area (unless MJMP remembers and posts it again)  :wave:

Thanks for posting the patch  :whoohoo!:
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 09, 2017, 05:09:37 AM
Well the delay time = N/2.fclk so in case of a MN3007 BBD that's 1024/2.fclk. The clock frequency (fclk) in the mp-1 is (depending on the mp-1) from 30kHz-60kHz to 270kHz-310kHz. (Rate at 0 and depth going from 100 to 0). I have seen all different frequency's but the best sounding ones are the ones with the lowest frequency.
It seems to depend on the CD4046 phase looked loop which can give different frequency's depending on who made it. But the mp-1 was designed to work with 30-270 kHz.
Usually from what I encountered the older mp-1's are more in that area while the newer ones have shifted to a higher clock.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: rnolan on November 09, 2017, 05:22:32 AM
Hey MJMP, that's fantastic but what's the delay time when depth set to 100 in ms ? (IIRC you did post this before). I know it's a short doubling style delay (as that's part of how you make chorus) and shouldn't be more than 40 ms (or it starts to be an echo)
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 09, 2017, 05:29:04 AM
Well for a clock of 30kHz that would be around 17ms, 50kHz around 10ms.So you see this quite a difference and that's why some MP-1 chorus has a better sound then the other.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: rnolan on November 09, 2017, 05:43:20 AM
Thanks MJMP,  :thumb-up: , so setting the depth (with rate 0) to 100 will give you a 17ms delay with 30kHz clock, and 10ms with a 50kHz clock. So you could try to emulate this in your delay unit (albeit, the ADA uses analog bucket brigade delay which is warmer).  So which sound better ? the 17 or 10 ms chorus  :dunno:
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 09, 2017, 08:07:20 AM
The chorus also uses a compander (compressor expander) and some filters (anti aliasing and reconstruction) so that will also have some influence on the sound.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: vansinn on November 09, 2017, 10:51:28 AM
Well, if the original MP-1 had the chorus running on a slower clock, and the AA filter was never changed when newer 4046, generating a faster clock, then at least the AA filter should always work as high up (in the case of the original slower clock) or higher than required (in the case of newer faster clock).
I this is the case, the AA filter, always working high enough to filter correctly, ought to never influence tone; same with the reconstruction filter.

The NE570 compander, implementing compression/expansion for lowering noise levels and allowing the MN BBD chip to handle dynamics, shouldn't impose any artifacts on tone, no matter which clock the BBD runs at.

As such, if I'm correct, the chorus sound should depend purely, or almost ;), on the clock-frequency-determined chorus delay time.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 09, 2017, 02:52:05 PM
The AA filter is a 2nd order low pass sallen key filter at 7.3kHz so it can make a "small" difference. But with the older delays the filter freq was much lower and there you can hear a huge difference.

What also makes a difference is that as soon you engage the rate it always starts at the lowest clock freq, so if the depth is set low it will sweep from 30-40kHz vs 50-60kHz that makes quite a difference in sound, so the chorus wil sound much deeper with mp-1's that start on 30kHz vs mp-1's that start at 50kHz.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: rabidgerry on November 10, 2017, 12:44:51 AM
THAT was some really NICE playing, very Gilbert sounding.

I watched the intense rock VHS a lot growing up (which also factors into the ADA love).


I have that same video.  Well mine is a dvd of the same video.  I sound nothin like Paul Gilbert though :lol:  Got it a few years ago.

Weird I never use the MP1 Chorus.  Mainly because I don't use an FX unit that has a stereo input (currently).  I have a few units that I could run with it but I haven't set them up yet and I'll never get to use them live anyways since I have to keep my rig light for shows abroad.  I have a show in London in December and the whole 4 rack thing I ue locally is causing me problems already, so I might have to cut back to a 2U rack which is shit.

@2112
Noticed you aren't locking you nut off, how come?
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: MikeB on November 10, 2017, 04:10:45 AM
Holy crap!  This is the most technical thread I've ever read anywhere.  :dunno:
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: vansinn on November 10, 2017, 12:46:02 PM
Holy crap!  This is the most technical thread I've ever read anywhere.  :dunno:

Well.. if we'd had all the 110.000 posts from the old forum available, you'd see some really deep-core technical discussions.. ;)
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: 2112 on November 12, 2017, 07:44:23 AM
Fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing guys! That gives me a lot to play around with.
THAT was some really NICE playing, very Gilbert sounding.

I watched the intense rock VHS a lot growing up (which also factors into the ADA love).


I have that same video.  Well mine is a dvd of the same video.  I sound nothin like Paul Gilbert though :lol:  Got it a few years ago.

Weird I never use the MP1 Chorus.  Mainly because I don't use an FX unit that has a stereo input (currently).  I have a few units that I could run with it but I haven't set them up yet and I'll never get to use them live anyways since I have to keep my rig light for shows abroad.  I have a show in London in December and the whole 4 rack thing I ue locally is causing me problems already, so I might have to cut back to a 2U rack which is shit.

@2112
Noticed you aren't locking you nut off, how come?

I've got the trem on that guitar blocked, hence no need for the nut.
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: Luke Gibson on July 02, 2018, 04:17:37 AM
THAT was some really NICE playing, very Gilbert sounding.

Totally agree! Thanks for posting Leon.....   Got mine in '92 used, I feel in love with the concept and tone.  I got her back out of storage a couple of years ago and upgrading the rack to more modern units......   
Title: Re: MP-1 Ultimate 80's Tones
Post by: Iperfungus on May 27, 2020, 02:06:33 AM

Settings
OD1 4.6
OD2 7.0
Master 5.5
Bass 2
Middle -4
Treble 4
Presence 8


Thanks for sharing!!!
I will give the patch a try...  :lol: