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Author Topic: Tubes for 3TM?  (Read 50208 times)

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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

well the TADs arrived, and I'm not impressed.  Tonally they are ok but the boldness is what I'm all about.

The first major noticeable thing is.............................the output!!

Holyshit compared to the tubes I had in there.

I had a bugera 12ax7b in V1 in then two HG Ruby Tubes in V2 and V3.

Uhhhh the difference is insane output that is.  Tonally they are different as well.

I have
1x TAD RT080 7025 WA in V1

and

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

I would describe it as chimey and kinda compressed.  At least  it feels that was, like the softest of touch gets response from the string.
That's cool.  But for me, they sound too weak.  I'm sure they could be EQ'd different but they really sound a bit thin for me although I could see them being off use to someone with different music style from me.

I have a recording to show the massive output difference!

I might stick in the  Bugera back into V1 and see how that sound with the 2x TAD RT008s

Failing that I'll put back in the Bugera and Rubys which I forgot aren't that old anyways and don't need changed.


Anyone know anything about Bugera Tubes?  I bought it cause it was cheap  :lol:  But I think it sounds goood!  They have another model as well but I dunno the difference.

I would say this is a bold tube, lots of that mid range cut through that I like!!  MID RANGE!!!!!!!!
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, well that's edifying but disappointing  :facepalm: . It's probably worth just running up a new patch from scratch and try to get the best out of them (gain, eq etc) but I hear you, they would probably suit my playing more than yours (as you allude to, well not me specifically LoL). The Bugera tubes are just selected brands re-badged (and probably JJs ?). From your other posted links, they are short plates which I think will suit your playing better than the more 3D long plates ("the softest of touch gets response from the string" which I like  >:D ). I know it costs $s to tube roll (untill your happy), my recommendation (for what it's worth) would be either Mullard short plate (or long plate  >:D ) in V1 and your 2 Rubys' in V2/3. And maybe put the TAD RT008s' in your stock MP1 ?
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El Chiguete

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

The first major noticeable thing is.............................the output!!

Holyshit compared to the tubes I had in there.

I had a bugera 12ax7b in V1 in then two HG Ruby Tubes in V2 and V3.

Uhhhh the difference is insane output that is.

Maybe it needs toturn op the internal trimpots? This is just a wild guess of mine thinking that it could be a way to fine tune the characteristics/volume when changing to new tubes?
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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

I just think the Tads I bought are lower gain so no trim pots needing adjusted.  I will still try the ones that SC said sound close to the original MP1 tubes.  RT001S i THINK.

I was just trying these tubes BTW, I am happy with the Bugera ruby combo.

I was thinking the Bugera tubes are rebadged.  Rebadged what though?  The look different from JJ's to me.  I sold the last JJ's a bought as they sounded like shit, which is weird since Ruby's are JJ's as well.

Anyways  Bugera got back and said this:


Thank you for contacting us.


12AX7A= tubes with ultra-low microphonic and audio must be used in the specified first pre-amplifier stage of Bugera amp models.
 

12AX7B= tubes with super-low microphonic and audio noise used in the second pre-amplifier stage in Bugera amp models.

Hope this helps.


Which is fairly useless to me, but it must mean that they make one to suit V1 and the other to suit V2.  So this means the Bugera I own is a V2 tube but I'm using it in V2, and it sounds pretty gutsy to me!!
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

The vagaries of tubes LoL. Like I said in previous posts, all of these tubes are selected for low noise/microphonics and high(ish) gain, there's also matched triodes etc. In the end they all sound different. Most are re-badged something (Boogie, GT, Ruby et al), there are only a limited number of tube manufactures, Tesla (JJs, Slovakia), New Sensor (made in Reflector Factory Russia and they make a bunch of other brands (e.g. Tung Sol etc), Chinese Tubes (quite a few, TADs? Shugung whatever). In the end IMO, short or long plate matters (I've found that long plates are more 3D (doesn't suit everyone though)). We all react differently to our tubes (depends so much on how you play), it makes more sense to me to compare them like guitar strings as they are all low noise, high gain blah blah, well how do they sound, in my preamp, with the way I play and which ones to avoid (e.g. Sovtecks, EVs).

So what I'm getting at here is that the various tube testers (re-sellers/branders (Boogie, GT, Ruby, Bugera etc)) are just concerned with low noise/micophonics high gain with little emphasis on "how the f&ck" do they sound (which BTW will vary in every circuit). I suppose at least we are trying to compare the different sounds in the same preamps but then playing style is very important.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

Yeah Richard, if you read my post I said, they're probably re-badged, but rebadged what?  How can we find these things out.

And what is the difference in Bugeras A model and B model?  They didn't give me much to go on.  Actually I might have read they make their own tubes recently now that I think about it???????????  Oh no wait that was they make their own paper for their own brand speakers which is different!!

I think they're a decent tube from what I can hear so there one I'm keeping on my usable list.

How many actual brands of tube are there?

I think you are right though, there no point in actual analysis really, because one mans great hi gain tube is another mans muddy piece of crap and that all comes down to equipment being used and the players style.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes
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rnolan

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

The Bugeras look similar to the TADs (my guess) which are Chinese tubes (as were the original tubes ADA used).
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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes

from this tiny little pictures I would never be able to identify the Bugera Tubes.  And if any of you guys are THAT good, then my hats off to you.  It doesn't look like he TAD to me.  So many look the same.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

It isn't easy to tell (hence "my guess"). They are definitely short plates (that's obvious) and seemed very similar in construction with the TADs (IMO/guess from the pics). It's also possible that Bugera designed the tube(s) ("conceived and designed by Bugera Germany") and have them made to their specs, as did ADA to some extent.  My understanding is that New Sensor (a US company who now own the brand names of a variety of well known tubes (e.g. Mullard, Tung Sol etc.) get them made to their (or original) specs in Russia at the Reflector Corp factory. (http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html)
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Here you can see what brand of tube it is,look at the pics of the tubes themselfs,you will see the differences.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

As for brands,well to my knowledge there are only 3 big players around anymore.EI was closed 2 years ago,so that leaves;

JJ from the slovak republic

Russian tubes like sovtek,EH,mullard RI ,tung sol and now also svetlana

And the Chinese tubes

from this tiny little pictures I would never be able to identify the Bugera Tubes.  And if any of you guys are THAT good, then my hats off to you.  It doesn't look like he TAD to me.  So many look the same.

Well if you look carefully you can see the difference.The easiest tubes to recognise are chinese tubes,see pic.They always use some kind of spacer that other tubes don't have.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

I hope it's ok to post my tests of the tubes here.  If not someone can move them  :thumb-up:

First Clip, is all 3 Tads

I have
1x TAD RT080 7025 WA in V1

and

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

just short clip

The second clip is Bugera 12ax7b in V1 and the

2x TAD RT008 TUBE ECC83 WA in V2 and V3

This combo instantly made it sound like it was before with my old Bugera Ruby Ruby combo that I took out in order to try the TADS


Note the massive volume difference

same patch used both times, everything was the same except the tube change.  Listening back tonally they are not as different as they seemed whilst playing, which is bizarre but I guess then it was a "feel" thing.  I definitely think Bugera tube is Bolder tonally.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

Trying to upload more clips here of the all Tad combo and the Bugera/Tad combo and it will not let me.  Richard I pm'd you man.

Clips are 13.9mb and 12. something mb.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

They both sound great and like you say not so much difference in sound.

Maybe try to upload mp-3's in stead of wav files?
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rabidgerry

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Re: Tubes for 3TM?
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

ok its letting me post mp3 but still no wav

what an arse!

this is all TADs again with a riff sequence and mess around
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010
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