ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
ADA Preamps => Original MP-1 => Topic started by: skarkowtsky on October 09, 2021, 07:34:53 AM
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Hey guys,
I recently put everything in a new rack, and spent the past two weeks eliminating ground loop hum with nylon shoulder washers, nylon flat washers and two Morley Exterminators (AC plug versions) on a couple of troublemaking units.
The rack is dead silent now, except for the high gain MP1 presets which still cut through because my EHX Silencer Noise Gate is before the MP1. However, I want to try the noise gate after the MMP1 to see if that cuts the hiss a bit. I'm not ready for the noise mod $$$.
My chain after the MP1 is Reverb > Delay > EQ > Power Amp. I bypass the MP1s FX loop because, at least on my unit (1.38 stock), it's a tone suck.
Since my time-based effects are on the back end of the chain, would I put the noise gate right after the MP1, but before all those units as to not clip them?
I really appreciate your input!
John
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What I would be doing is going MP1 > EQ > Gate > Delay > Reverb > Power Amp. You want your gate after everything possible, but prior to any time based effects. So, put it after the EQ. Also, I personally prefer delay first, then reverb.
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Wait, I do have my delay before reverb sorry, I've been back there for weeks with wires, haha!
I'll def try the EQ right after MP1. Thanks for the advice in the gate!!
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The rack is dead silent now, except for the high gain MP1 presets which still cut through because my EHX Silencer Noise Gate is before the MP1. However, I want to try the noise gate after the MMP1 to see if that cuts the hiss a bit. I'm not ready for the noise mod $$$.
My chain after the MP1 is Reverb > Delay > EQ > Power Amp. I bypass the MP1s FX loop because, at least on my unit (1.38 stock), it's a tone suck.
The EHX Silencer is capable of 4-cable hookup; try to take advantage of that by either running the MP-1 Output back to that Loop, or using the MP-1 Loop to the Silencer Loop as well as using the Silencer in front of the MP-1. The Mp-1 Loop is known for being a Tone Suck, but I'd give it a try anyway just in case it might play nice. If you use the MP-1 Output back to the Silencer, you'll lose the ability to control the total output of your rig with just the Level knob on the MP-1 front panel.
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Hi Kim,
Thank you! Please break these setups down a bit more?
The send/return on the Silencer confuses me, so I've never tried it.
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True, the EHX Silencer is a bit misleading with their jack ID labels and I had to look it up myself back when I got mine.
Here is the very same video I used to figure it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRKugoxozM
:wave:
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That's an interesting setup, I might try one of those in the effects loop of the MP-1 and see how it does.
I prefer my rack effects connected to the outputs of the MP-1 anyway, since I like to use two amp setups. It's just calming down the noise from the high gain presets is all I'm interested in doing.
Harley 8)
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Got my noise gate (Sentry) as 3e in my guitaraudio switcher.
Guitar in than loop 1 the Pro Tone Gary Holt signature boost, loop 2 is the Pro Tone Jeff Loomis signature overdrive, loop 3 the Sentry noise gate, 4 = the 3tm mp1, 5 the Yerasov Detonator P, 6 Rane mpe 28 , Tc Electronic G Major 2.(has issues so maybe gonna changed out soon) switcher out to Marshall 8008 solid state power amp or to the poweramp of the Bugera XXX inf. with 2 Shuguang 6L6's.
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I finally got a chance to try the gate after the MP1. Unfortunately, it didn't work at all. No matter how I dialed in the gate, I couldn't kill the noise. But, I also have a full 80s rack that follows after the gate, and that gear is notoriously noisy: especially the Roland SRV-2000 and both Yamaha SPX90II, depending on the patch.
For whatever strange reason, the gate after the guitar but before the MP1 works wonders (with the exception of losing the lightest guitar picking touch), so I'll go back to that.
I do believe the guitar also has a signal noise issue, and I'll be swapping out the EMGs (which should be quiet!) soon. Hopefully this resolves the guitar issue.
Thanks everyone!
John
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I'm running two noisegates right now and running into this same problem.
I have guitar -> Roland GP8 -> Boss NS50 -> MP1 -> Hush II -> B200S
I use the NS50 for a quick gate on high gain rhythm patches, then the Hush to bring down the hum, but no matter how I set the threshold it doesn't seem to help.
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Hey Guys,
Two things here:
@ John, try your gate at the end of your effects chain, but before any delay or reverb effect. Tommy made that suggestion, and I've done that with an early rack rig I built, and it made a big difference. Although, I should mention now that I think about it, all the effects were in the loop of the MP-1 except the delays and reverbs, and the noise gates I placed between the outputs of the MP-1 and the inputs of the delays. The delay and reverb were between the MP-1 and the power amp, with the noise gates in front of them.
The noise gates I use for the MP-1 are a pair of dbx 463x Overeasy noise gates, and they work very well in any configuration I've used them in.
@ Chip, If you're getting hum, that's completely different from the white noise that gets generated by some rack units. You may have ground loop hum which no noise gate in the world can cure.
I would suggest isolating your rack gear from the rack mounting rails, and use insulating washers on the screws to mount them.
Additionally, check your cable routing in the back of your rack, and make sure none of your audio cables are running along side any of your AC power cables. This will definitely induce a hum.
When I build a rack, as a general rule, (looking into the rack from the back), all my power cables run down the left side of my rack between the rack case and the rack units. My audio cables run down the right side, and my control cables, (MIDI, and bypass switching), run up the center. If the audio jacks plug in near the center of a rack processor, I run that cable straight to the side of the rack processor to the right side before grouping them together.
If I ever run into a situation where it is impossible to avoid an audio cable and a power cable coming into close proximity with each other, then I will always try to have them intersect each other and avoid letting them run parallel.
With low voltage DC cables, they will not do much to induce hum in a rack, but there is always that oddball piece of gear that needs a wall wart to run, and that could be an exception to the rule.
Harley 8)
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Thanks Harley!
I also second Harley regarding ground loop. I recently spent about a month doing isolation tests (pulled items from rack, replaced, etc.)
My power cords are all routed on one side of the back of the rack, as far away from audio cables as possible. I also mounted each effect with nylon shoulder washers between the ears and the rack rails, and nylon flat washers between the mounting screw and ears. Of course, this eliminates the benefit of ground chassis's working together to make the entire rack a ground, but as long as each effect has an earth pin in the plug (ground), you're totally safe.
I also had to introduce Morley Exterminators to three of my rack effects. These are isolated transformers that re-route the ground path of whatever is plugged into them. These are also grounded with an earth pin. My rack is now free of ground loop noise.
DO NOT use ground lifts, which can cause a flyback and possible electrocution.
Hope that helps!
John
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Hey John,
Sounds like a winning beast of a rack you got there. I don't use quite as much of the nylon washers as you do, but when I buy rack screws, I look for the sets that come with the nylon shoulder washers. These help center the rack piece I'm mounting as well as insulating them. My rack rails are tapped, so I take the cheap method and cover the rails with electrical tape, then I cut out the screw holes with the tip of an exacto knife. This is a bit more difficult with the clip-on rack nuts, so isolation tabs may be the way to go with those.
All my power to every rack I build is supplied with Furman power supplies, (PL-8's and PL=Plus's), which I've used since the late 80's when Juice Goose power supplies became harder to find. These are very reliable and constant power supplies, that have protected my gear through the years, including the dbx noise gates I've mentioned which only have two-prong plugs. I should mention this as an important note though, the newer model PL-8's do not seem to be as high quality as the older models I own. IF I were shopping for newer Furmans, I would do some research into the filtering, and shielding as well as the voltage protection properties. The higher end models seem to offer what used to be standard on all of them a long time ago. At least, all of the grounding issues required for a rack full of gear is handled through the power supplies. This way, if there is a ground loop hum, it's much easier to track down. Fortunately, I haven't had any issues like that since the mid-90's, and that because of an old Digitech 2101. It just didn't like to play well with my ADA gear.
Harley 8)
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Yeah, Furman PL Plus with light rods all the way!! Sits at the top of my rack.
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Here's my current rack.
Furman PL Plus with light rods
ADA MP-1
Roland SRV-2000
(2) Yamaha SPX90II
Rane MPE-28
Korg DT- 1 Pro
Carvin Tube 100
Custom Shop Mojo Tone cabinet
Celestion Redback 150w
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SWEET! :thumb-up:
Looks like you can cover a lot of ground with that rig! I know from the gear in it, that it has a lot more potential than just what you have for your preset sounds.
I was looking at a couple of Mojotone cabs my self. Either a Slammins 2x12 or an Isocab 2x12 that I can load a couple of Altec Lansing G-17H speakers in it. I find it a little curious that you elevate yours. Personally, I prefer mine on the floor to get a bit more bass thump, but hey, to each their own.
Harley 8)
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Yeah, I do spend hours making my own patches with the effects, it's a lot of fun dialing in my own sound. That's the MojoTone Canyon series—quality is up there with Marshall fabrication.
I currently run a mono rig due to space limitations in our basement, but the rack can be converted to stereo in the future with just a couple of Rane splitter/ mixers added to it. I can't wait to experience stereo panning!
I put the cabinet up to align the sound field with my ears. I find everything sounds brighter/punchier. I also boost the lowest bass frequency on my Rane EQ for a tight, crunchy growl.
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Hey John,
Yeah, I get that about aligning the sound field to your ears, that's why I was looking at the Isolation cab, or the Slammin cab. They have the front baffle angled up like that.
The Rane SM-26 is an indispensable part of my stereo racks, especially when it comes to mixing effects in parallel. I have a version 1 and one of the SM-26B models. The version 1 has an AC cord for power, the "B" has a wall-wart power supply.
You're going to love the panning delays in the stereo field. It messes with a drummer's head if you put a cab on either side of the drum riser ;D
Harley 8)