Place to discuss input/preamp tubes

[rnolan]

Hey SC great (edifying) read thanks  So this is about the power amp stage of a normal guitar amp (which is a combination of preamp and power amp).  So my Carvin TS100 power amp has 4 12AX7s, one per channel input buffer and one per channel phase inverter, so P1 in this case is the 2nd tube (on each channel) which is the phase inverter (feeds the output tubes in my case 6L6s' 4 of = 2 per side push/pull) and if I changed the phase inverter tubes out to a 12AT7s I'd have a TC over 5000 and heaps more output current (which should equate to headroom, less gain but much more current).  IIRC there was a recommendation on Dougs tubes (I think ?) where they said a 12AT7 in the P1 slots works well.  I must try it sometime.

[darthphineas]

when it comes to the total best QUALITY preamp tube for the original MP-1, and when you take cost out of the equation, which tubes are the best for the ORIGINAL, out-of-the-box ADA MP-1 tone?...that are currently available?  lol!

--- note, this is about a QUALITY product and the ORIGINAL tone ---


brand?
JJ? Tung-Sol? Groove Tubes (or Groove Tubes Gold)? Ruby? Mullard? Sovtek?


model?
12AX7?  12AX7A?  ECC82S?


other specs?
short plate?  long plate?

[rnolan]

As you said the other thread seems more active, this is really the place for this discussion LOL, I've posted reply there as there are also posts from others already.
Cheers R

[darthphineas]

Thanks for the reply. You seemed to be the only one that could cut to the chase and answer the question (what is the BEST that is closest to the original?).  lol!

Seems that when I bought those JJ tubes just a few years ago that I figured they'd last about as long as the last time I swapped tubes, which was quite a while back....and I'm probably playing less as well. haha!  If the JJ are the best, that's fine, so at least now I know. But there is another brand that has the same voicing that might have a longer life, that's cool too.

Seems like you like the Mullard tubes. What would you consider to be the basic difference between the Mullard and the JJ?  The Groove Tubes gold series ECC83S seems to get a lot of good reviews, even for clean settings.

[rnolan]

It's a very interesting (and as I'm sure your gathering very subjective) conversation.  SCs advice has always been solid BTW (he got me interested in the Mullards way back), so if he's tried and likes the TADs (I haven't)... There probably isn't a production tube around these days to match the ones ADA used (particularly for pumping/vacuum) but there are some exciting options and I love the Mullard long Plates  >:D (no secret there lol)
While the JJs are good in MP1, they are different to the original tubes (ADA would have had them made to their specs etc as do other preamp/amp makers).  The original tubes were IIRC (been a while BTW) a bit more open than JJs (I'm talking Boogie STRs here BTW), although the original tubes were very old (years of gigs/rehearsals) and the Boogies were new so gave new life.
The basic difference I've found with JJs and Mullards is the Mullards are sooo articulate and 3D (and, as posted in the other thread, articulate tubes are less forgiving, they track everything good or bad... I like this aspect BTW but I've been playing for over 40 years).  I find the JJs tight, great gain and tone (best feedback I've ever heard) but a bit 2 Dimensional, they don't think outside the square (if that makes sense), the Mullards are so open 3D and go wherever your fingers want them to. I'm yet to try the Mullard short plates but will get to soon.
The other (and initially main) reason I didn't like the JJs in my MP2 was they broke up (in not a nice way) on the bottom E 82hz.  I put in the Mullard long plates and melted (what a sound, and I'm not easily impressed), but that's for me and my sound/style (I do miss the JJs feedback though).
GT sells good tubes, they don't make them but they know what they're doing (gold usually means gold coated pins so better electrical contact, less resistance, longevity of connection etc).  The Tung-Sol re-issues are also probably a good fit in this mix and made in the same factory as Mullards.

[trader144]

FWIW, I have tested the tubes SC recommended: TAD 12AX7A-C RT001

I agree with SC, they sound very, very close to the original MP-1 tubes. Hope they last as long.

[rnolan]

Good to know, hope they last well also 

[rabidgerry]

Anyone ever used  Shuguang 12AX7B tubes?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shuguang-12AX7B-replace-ECC83-Audio-HIFI-Vacuum-Tube-Valve-for-amplifier-1PCS-/251646444560?hash=item3a974c0410


And what are peoples experiences of Sovteks? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261210575172?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm thinking of trying some in my stock MP1  (I've new TADS ordered for me 3TM).

[rnolan]

I was talking with a tube nut mate of mine re Sovteks, he likes some LM model ones ? but his interest is in hi end audio, super clean. SC IIRC said they are good for phase spliter before power amp tubes (this is where you want current, not so much gain, e.g. 12AT/U/Y7s))

The Shuguangs seem ok from other reports, go with some Mullards  >:D IMHO

[MarshallJMP]

Never liked sovteks in a mp-1.They sound dull.

[rabidgerry]

I was just asking since I saw them aty a nice price.  I'll bother.

Besides my TADS arrived today so I shall try em out this evening I hope :)

[Soloist]

When I got my stock MP1 it had some Groove Tubes in it(not original for sure). Sounded like an amp with a blanket over it.
Put a Mesa Boogie STR12AX7-A  in V1 and a 12AX7-SPAX7 in V2 and wow!!! did it wake the beast
While I feel the Mesa's are great sounding tubes they are a little sterile sounding compared to the rich warmness of the factory tubes.
I would like to try the Mullards based on rnolans recommendation. Add that to my to-do list.

[rabidgerry]

Bugera talk these up quite a lot on there website.

I can vouch for the Bugera 12ax7 b  it sounds pretty dam good for my needs in V1

http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/products/12AX7A.aspx

I do not know what the difference in the models are so I have asked Bugera to clarify

http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/products/12AX7B.aspx

Deep and bold is how I would desribe the 12ax7 b and loud!

[rnolan]

Well basically Bugera are doing what many others do (e.g. Boogie, GT, Ruby etc), they are picking the best from various suppliers, obviously they all go for low noise/microphonics, gain etc. But if you put a Boogie SPAX7 (their premium offering and usually a JJ ? from what I've read) up against a New Sensor Mullard reissue, they sound "quite" different. Both though are low noise/microphinics high gain. So from the many well tested options we talk about here, they are all low noise/microphonics, high gain etc. So it comes down to how they sound in "your" preamp with how "you" play. My 2nd MP2 came with EV 12AX7s, I wasn't impressed (but they were low noise etc etc). And blanket comes to mind as I recall them.
How/what you play makes a big difference to what will work best for you. The first tube change I did with my MP1 way back was to Boogie 12AX7s (coz I could buy them locally and hadn't thought about it much). They were fine and suited what I was playing at the time (much more higher gain than I do now). They are a very tight tube and IMO suit very high gain situations (as MJMP likes them (well he uses Ruby JJs, much the same short plate tube) in his 3TM). They also have the nicest feedback I've heard so far (important at those gains).  I tried some in my MP2, as posted elsewhere here, they were ok.. The Mullard long plates introduced a new dimension I'd not experienced before, they are so articulate and "3D" which really suited my current playing style, so right now they are my preference. Many here are finding a combination of different brands (in V1,2,3) works for them, you just have to try a few options/combinations to work out what you like. But at this end of town (i.e. they are all low noise etc etc) we are commenting on/ comparing the sonic differences. But based on my experience and other comments here for those that have tried them, the Mullard Long plates are definitely worth a try, even just one in V1.

[rabidgerry]

I think I will try a long plate  but where the hell do I get them?  I've a lot of Mullards in my general searching for 12ax7's  but none of the long lates.

They are really expensive as well.

I need to find some more choices I like for I have two Peavey Rockmaster preamps and they have 4 tubes each.  One of them sounds nice with an EHX in V1.  I think I've Groove Tubes in the V2 3 and 4 positions.  This sounds ok.  The other Rockmaster has some other brand which aren't as to my liking as the EHX combo I have in the first one.