ADA Depot - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear
Non ADA Gear => Effects => Topic started by: Dante on March 26, 2021, 09:57:47 AM
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I bought this with the intention of using it to control my ADA Viper. It wouldn't switch the channels in the Viper, but it works well with my Peavey mini head. Harley said he was wondering about this unit, so I thought maybe some other folks might wanna get the lowdown on it;
It is very small. Very mighty. The only pedals I add are a TCE Mojomojo for my 'classic rock' tone (the Peavey is too brutal for that), and a EHX Pitch Fork. The pitch fork is a great whammy with an expression pedal and the octaver is better than the MS-3.
It has three effects loops, but you have to dedicate one to the amp. So, I put the amp in Loop 2, giving me the option of adding something before or after the amp. You can move all three loops elsewhere in the effects chain, but the 3 stay together as one. You cannot rearrange the loops themselves.
There is a proprietary editing app that you access via USB. It's worth the price of admission by itself, I love that app. Like other BOSS multi effects, there is a Manual mode that allows you to toggle between presets and stompboxes. You're using presets until you hit the Manual button, then you have individual stompboxes. That's pretty nice when you just wanna add a delay to your solo or a nice rotovibe to your clean patch.
There are two 'control' IN jacks and one control OUT. The control OUT switches the channels in the amp. One control IN has a Boss FS7 footswitch to use as a bank up/down...the other has a 1-button footswitch connected & I've set that to be my solo boost. As a backup, you can set each preset button to have another function, like a solo boost. So, let's say I select patch 2, if I hit the 2 button again, it activates the solo. To deactivate it, I either hit the 2 button again, or select another patch. The only drawback with using the patch button as a solo boost is if you're in Manual mode, you need to get out of that mode to access the switch again.
Having used the Boss GX-700 for so long now, the FX layout on the MS-3 is very similar and familiar. Some of the effects are very similar too. While the MS-3 is not an Eventide or EHX type quality, it is a great little workhorse for a gigging musician. It has what you need to cover a lot of bands in 4 hours, won't break the bank, and takes up very little room.
The one thing I haven't figured out yet is how to make it send midi changes...to use as a midi footswitch if I wanted to...but I have a midi footswitch already, so it's not a big priority yet.
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Hey Dante,
Does the Viper need MIDI for channel switching? It would seem to me that since there are only two channels, it could do that with a momentary switch.
I would have to go look at the Viper manual to see what's going on there.
Harley 8)
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Harley, the Viper doesn’t have midi, it requires a crazy circuit to work. I found a way to use two buttons of a quad switch to accomplish the task. It only works with the 2 and 4 buttons, and only with the dip switches set a certain way
Here’s the thread about how to make a snakecharmer foot switch with a standard ADA quad switch
http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=2046.msg23275#msg23275 (http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=2046.msg23275#msg23275)
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Hey Dante,
Okay, I misunderstood your intent to use MIDI. I thought you meant to switch channels in the Viper, but you meant as a MIDI controller of other outboard gear. There should be a MIDI menu in the MS-3 I would imagine. Probably edits like the MIDI menu in the MP-2.
Harley 8)
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UPDATE on an old thread:
The MS-3 works great as a midi controller, I found it a better alternative to the stock footswitch for my H&K Switchblade, and the H&K Grandmeister. Still able to access the 4 channels of the map via midi, then the MS-3 has 'manual mode' for 4 more stompboxes and the FS-7 for a dedicated Boost & Delay control. SIX OPTIONS for each patch, not bad
I use the proprietary app to set up the MS-3 patches and control functions, super easy, but I should really learn how to access that stuff on the unit itself - haha. The display screen is just too tiny sometimes in a live setting, but that's the trade-off of a small footprint on the pedal board I guess
So, to review; If you need a small multi effects with a lot of features, look at this. No, you're not going to rival studio effects with this, but they are more than usable Boss effects, and the unit is solidly built, like all Boss stuff. They have a new 3-button FX unit (GT1000 Core) that I haven't even explored yet. But, the 4 buttons on the MS-3 make it more intuitive with the 4 channels in my amp, soooo...
Here's what it looks like now, I rarely bring the Expression pedal (far right) but it makes a great Whammy pedal with the Pitch Fork
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Pretty cool stuff!
It's great to have flexibility that you can access at a touch of a button. Gee, that sounds a lot like ADA :ada-big:
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Gee, that sounds a lot like ADA :ada-big:
Yes it does!!!
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Pretty cool stuff!
It's great to have flexibility that you can access at a touch of a button. Gee, that sounds a lot like ADA :ada-big:
I'm trying my hardest to construct a rig that's as efficient as the ADA system is....it ain't easy. But, I have a programmable amp head with 4 voices, so that is very similar to an ADA preamp in theory. Add effects and amplification and you've emulated your ADA rig :thumb-up:
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You know, that's exactly what I'm doing with the cyber amps too.
I think ADA has scarred all of us in that respect. It's a good thing.
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You know, that's exactly what I'm doing with the cyber amps too.
I think ADA has scarred all of us in that respect. It's a good thing.
Yes you are
It's certainly bittersweet
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BUMP: The MS-3 continues to amaze
I have been digging really deep into the functions and features in this thing. Usually, I find a good sound and move on, I don't depend on my effects
However, since playing in a couple U2 tribute bands, I am much more reliant on effects (mostly delays, some modulation FX). It has forced me to dig deeper and then dig again months later. I have 3 delays in one patch just for U2 stuff, plus a couple more for odd songs that require a specific effect.
Manual mode on the MS-3 activates 4 stompboxes in each patch, so I use those 4 to access 2 delays and 2 modulations (remember, I also have my dedicated delay for the patch = 3 total).
I also started experimenting with delay tails and my expression pedal I never use. There's a song that has a long delay feedback, like 5 or 6 repeats, but I have my delay on that patch set at 2 repeats for the U2 stuff. Enter the expression pedal; just set it to control the feedback of the delay in FX2 (one of my delays) and you have infinite echoes when you push the toe down. Heel down gives you the usual 2 repeats. Such a simple concept that I never exploited before.
Guess what? With infinite repeats, you can also hold a note infinitely! Very handy for synth parts or horns
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Hey Dante, great idea :thumb-up: . I'd kind of given up on fx just going for a short stereo delay and some reverb, back toward my roots when I pretty much just had a MXR Phase 45, then later a Memory Man delay. But now some of the songs we are doing would benefit from some fx. So it may be time to venture back into the rabbit hole.
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Me too, I'd use a Reverb on everything but really not much chorus or flange and definitely no rotovibe, leslie rotating cab, or more than one delay at a time. A little delay, maybe some chorus.
Now I need ambient tones that fade in slowly (volume pedal via the expression pedal) and the longer delay tails for a couple songs
MS-3 Fun fact: Delay tails will remain if you're in manual mode and you shut it off or switch to a different delay. If you switch patches (patch mode, not manual), the tails get chopped :o
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I've been using the CC functions to do things like that for years with the Ground Control. The way around cutting off your delay trails is to not switch signal paths when you change patches, instead you switch signal paths by cutting the input signal to the delays. This way, the delay tails continue, but there's no more input to the delays.
I can assign one of the CC pedals to control the feedback of the delays, and lengthen or shorten the feedback, and the other to control the modulation depth/speed within the delay in the Lexicon MPX-1
I'm getting one of the new TC Electronic 2290P pedals in a couple of weeks and I'm going to be using CC to do the same thing in that. I already bought the SCF Gold and it's probably the only chorus/flanger pedal that I like outside of the ADA rack effects I have. My goal with those is to be able to use those with any rig I'm playing through from ADA to Fender, vintage or Cyber-rigs.
Since those will be on a pedal board, I've been looking at some of those Boss loop switchers as well as a few other brands. I want to be able to keep the CC functions with whichever one I end up with.
@ Dante; Am I right that the Boss loop switchers are fairly easy to program, but kind of limited in the number of pathways you can route?
Harley 8)
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I can't speak for the other switchers, but my MS-3 makes a good switcher / multi effects. It isn't that hard to program with the little screen and all the menus, but the app on the CPU is definitely easier.
I haven't done much with the CC numbers in my current amp. I used them a lot with my Quad switch and my GX-700 though. The only thing that keeps me from using them more is that the Hughes & Kettner doesn't allow you to toggle the effects ON with the CC commands, only OFF and then ON. So, if you don't have a delay on that patch, no go. If you have a delay on that patch, no problem, you can turn it off/on. Weird
That's the reason I started using the MS-3 in the first place. Otherwise, I'd just use the effects in the amp and my ADA MXC footswitch with the Quad switch
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That is weird. Which model H&K is it? I want to go look that up and see what it has.
It kind of sounds like there is some issue between latching and momentary switching. IF the effects are external, and there is nothing in the amp that can be controlled by CC, then it should ignore any of those commands. The answers will be in the SYSEX chart.
I'm going to look in the MS-3's MIDI implementation chart as well. It sounds like something isn't set to the correct command channel.
I've never used the MXC, Quad Switch, and CC pedal for anything other than the MP-2. It works really well there. The only other thing I've used for MIDI control is the Ground Control which allows me to plug in two CC control pedals albeit variable pedals or switches. It's pretty easy to assign the functions in the Ground Control, but the key is to get the right communication channels going with the MIDI units I want to control with it. With some equipment, I've found it takes a few attempts before the command routing is completed. (Lexicon LXP-15II).
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Well, I couldn't get the Switchblade combo to respond at all. The Grandmeister 40 deluxe is my main amp, I use the switchblade as a slave speaker for playing in stereo.
I have the midi chart in the manual, I can dig it up for you. I set my MS-3 to modify the corresponding CC number and got no response. Even the proprietary pedal from H&K does this - you have to save a delay and modulation for the patch, then you can toggle them on/off
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Dante,
I looked at the MIDI implementation chart for the MS-3. It actually does not recognize most MIDI commands. Almost everything in the column has an "X" all the way down the list. The only CC commands it does recognize are from what you have connected into the expression pedal and the footswitch plugs.
The really weird thing is the SYSEX is not available to the public. I've never seen that in any MIDI device before. The SYSEX chart tells you what commands can be sent and received, and what channels to assign them to. MIDI works on a handshake principle, and both devices need to complete the handshake.
I think for MIDI, you'd be better off plugging your MIDI controller into the Grandmeister and running a MIDI cable from that to the Switchbalde from the MIDI Thru jack. This way the command is sent to both amps at the same time. The other alternative is to send MIDI to the Grandmeister, then have the Grandmeister send an independent different command from the MIDI Out jack to the Switchblade. It's sort of like midi mapping in a different way, and that is only IF the amps can be programmed to do that. They have to all be on the same channel for that to work which means that if one of them is in Omni mode, it needs to be set to mono mode and on the same channel. Many MIDI devices don't respond in Omni mode.
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I literally only use the volume on the Switchblade.
I run my right channel into the FX return so that I have my Grandmeister providing all the preamp. The Switchblade is really only the power section, bypassing the preamp. It's easier than trying to match two amps and gives me stereo ability with the MS-3.
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Ah, Got it!
I'm doing the same thing with the 2nd Cyber Deluxe I bought. I use the original one for all the effects and run the Expander out to the newer one so I get the full spread of stereo effects. The Cyber-Twin is the center channel and I disabled all the effects in that one. I use and A/B/Y pedal on the board to bring in the Cyber-Deluxe when I want the effects. It's a pretty cool rig. The only real trick is to line up all the programs to matching locations in the amps, that way I send one program change command and everything goes to the right sounds I'm looking for. The Expression pedal on the Controller is disabled in the CT, but active in the CD.
To be honest, I like the CT for just straight up good amp tones. The effects don't impress me much. The CD all has to be dialed in manually, amp tones as well as effects. Unlike the CT, I can deep dive and custom make my effects in the CD just by twisting a few knobs. I'm not limited to effects the way the CT is. As for the amp tones, they're every bit as good as the CT. I'm pretty happy with this particular 3 combo amp rig.
Harley 8)
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Yeah, that sounds awesome
I feel the same about the effects in the Grandmeister - they're okay but limited in precision (using knobs vs digital values). So, the head is for amp tones, lots of them, but the MS-3 does all the FX. Although they are present, I don't mess with the amp modelling or speaker emulation stuff (i have amps & speakers...no need to emulate)
Gotta keep it simple, I barely remember why I came in this room ::)
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I totally agree with you on the cab emulations. Except in one situation. When I'm using the direct line outs from the amps to the desk, and no mics on the speakers, then it comes in handy. It may not be necessary on stage but when I hear the playback through the PA or even recording, there's a huge difference.