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Author Topic: Behringer FCB1010 - Analogue Switching for Rockmaster Preamp  (Read 3681 times)

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rabidgerry

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Hello again everyone.  Told you I was back.

Right the Behringer FCB1010 is quite literally the best large midi controller pedal around in my opinion once you get some Uno firmware installed.

Anyways I recently just found out it had more functionality than I realised.  It has two analogue relays that can operate channels on amp/preamps.  There are two jacks for this at the back of the pedal.  This is really mega useful.  However, for some reason I can only get these switches to change between two of my Peavey Rockmasters channels.  I think I know why but do not know how I would go about creating a solution.

So what I think I am going to need to do is create some kind of a custom cable.  I was wondering would any of you guys know exactly what I would need to do in order to operate all three channels using the on board FCB1010 relays?

Here is a diagram of the rockmaster foot switch which can normally operate all three channels.

http://snw.lonningdal.no/peavey/rm-tctp/Peavey_Rock_Master_Foot_Switch_Schematic.jpg

So my thinking is, if I was to make a custom cable to work the rockmaster using the behringers relay switches (I believe these jacks are trs) would I need to have some how make a cable that some how excluded the ground and only had the two tip signals?

Also I'm referring to a TRS to Y cable which splits the stereo signal to a separate jack and then plus into each of the relay switches on the Behringer.  However I was thinking may be even just a trs to trs type cable plugged into one of the relay jacks might also allow for switching between all three channels on the rockmaster.

Anyone with any advice I would really appreciate it as for the first time in my life I might need a lesser distortion and a to switch back to a heavier distortion.  Progress eh  :lol:
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Do you have a schematic on how the switch 1 and 2 outputs are wired? Couldn't find anything in the FCB manual
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rabidgerry

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I'm looking for this information.  All I can say for now is they can be switched from momentary to latching.  I have them on latching right now.  I'll keep digging.  Thanks MJMP.

***edit***
Some guy here actually asking about the same thing as me!!  But zero info

https://www.harmonycentral.com/forums/topic/1414869-anyone-use-behringer-fcb1010-for-amprelay-switching/

***edit***
This is also speculation and I shall need to test, but I've read on another forum that

Quote
Doesn't the FCB1010 work with two TS cables OR one TRS cable?

 

I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

Too bad I can't find the manual and it doesn't say it on the unit itself (just checked).

 

I'd check but it would involve spending 5 minutes hooking it up to my Traynor combo (only amp I have with a TRS footswitch input)

But somehow... I could swear that's what I used to do when I was using the Traynor combo live...

and

Quote
If I remember correctly, the 2 outputs on the FCB are in fact of the "TRS" variety (you can use a stereo cable and switch two things at once... provided the receiving amp works this way too)

 

You can use the two jacks separately with a "mono" cable, or use only one with a "stereo" cable.

 

If I remember correctly...

So I will need to try just a plain old TRS to TRS type cable into one FCB1010 relay switch to see what functionality I am getting.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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So if they are TRS you have 2 switches on switch 1 and on switch 2. But they switch in and out at the same time?
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rabidgerry

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So if they are TRS you have 2 switches on switch 1 and on switch 2. But they switch in and out at the same time?

No sure I understand you.  You mean both FCB1010 switches operate at the same time?  No they are operated independently.

Initially how I tried to use these relays where by running a TRS - Y cable from the rockmaster to the FCB1010.

The TRS end would plug into the Peavey and then the two mono jack I was plugging into each of the switches on the FCB1010.

The functionality I was getting was pretty random.  I could never ever reach all three of the channels.  Two at best if I recall.

But after reading that info above I'm starting to wonder would a trs - trs cable into one FCB1010 switch allow me to reach all three channels albeit via one footswitch?

Which might not actually be suitable.  But then perhaps a custom cable could allow me to switch back using the other fcb1010 switch.  I dunno, it's a bit confusing.

Skip to 31 mins in, does this shed any light on the functionality?

« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Let me try to explain what I mean, switch 1 has a TRS jack, so I asume it has 2 contacts. So if you set switch 1 to on both contacts will switch at the same time.

Now you can measure this, plug in a stereo jack into switch 1 and take a meter set to ohms, measure between sleeve and ring and sleeve and tip, if switch 1 is off you should have no continuity, if switch 1 is on you should have continuity on both.
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rnolan

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Hey RG, interesting video.  So Y cable (TRS to 2 x TS) is the go, TRS at the rockmaster and Tip to switch 1 and Ring to switch 2 (or vis versa).  This emulates the 2 switches on the peavey pedal and turning them on/off on the FCB will be the same as pressing them on/off on the peavey pedal. The peavey pedal has 4 states:

Tip off Ring off = FCB 1 off, 2 off = Bypass?? (I'm just guessing what the rockmaster state equates to here based on your peavey FS diagram)
Tip on Ring off = FCB 1 on, 2 off = Clean??
Tip off Ring on = FCB 1 off, 2 on = Ultra??
Tip on Ring on = FCB 1 on, 2 on = Ultra/Crunch??

So since you can assign multiple things to each patch, you can include a different switch state in that patch e.g. Tip on (FCB 1 on, 2 off) etc.  So when you change patch it will select the rockmaster mode/state as part of the patch.  I'm assuming this is how you want to use it?  Alternatively you can program the FCB up/down buttons to toggle the FCB switches.  I can't see that you would want to use momentary switching (which the FCB can be programmed to do) unless you want to press a FCB button to change the rockmaster to a different state and hold it, releasing reverts to off again.  So latching (which is default) makes more sense.

Using a TRS at the FCB end doesn't do anything practical, the FCB switches just toggle the tip hi/low, on/off and if you had a TRS plugged into it, it "probably" toggles both the tip and the ring  :dunno: at the same time (guessing here) which would/may cause strange results at the rockmaster end. 

When you include the FCB switching in a patch, you need to include both FCB switches and set them to either on or off to ensure you select the right state on the rockmaster.  This may be why you have been getting strange results? 
« Last Edit: Time Format by rnolan »
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rabidgerry

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Unfortunately everything is on hold whilst I get over Covid.  I tested positive yesterday.  Feel terrible.  But when I am able I will get testing to see what is going on.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Hey RG, bummer  :facepalm: , hope you get better soon.  The FCB can be a bit of a head f**k but I think I've worked it out for you.
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rabidgerry

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So currently I had the switches both 1 and 2 set to "on" for every patch on FCB.  So by your reckoning you think I need to have one of the switches set to "off"?

I have copied the original midi editor file for FCB1010 which corresponds to my GX700 and made a new version what now has SW1 set to On and SW2 set to Off.

No need for a TRS to TRS cable then.

Ok will test once I'm well enough.

Thank you guys.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rabidgerry

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I have all my patches set up the same so I have the switches set to 1 on and 2 off across all the patches that I am using so forget about that aspect.  I just needed to know if the 1 on and 2 off will work as I want it to i.e allow me to switch between all channels.  Of course depending on which does which I would always want to be on the Ultra as default and then drop to the crunch occasionally and may one day when I'm old and grey to the clean  :lol:.

Yes I have assigned two foot switches to operate each relay switch, again set up the same for all program changes/patches.

I'm using an Uno firmware so the top row of FCB footswitches I have designated for changing patches only on the GX-700.  the bottom row have assigned for "stomp box" mode.  However as the Gx-700 only has a certain amount of things you can assign via midi I had a few spare foot switches left on the FCB, so I decided to use those to operate the peavey rockmaster channels.

So basically forget about the overall setup of the FCB.  This is sorted.  I just need to figure out how to program the to foot switches I had saved for operating the two relays. 

As I mentioned before I didn't know what the hell I was doing so I just set them to both "on" using the FCB1010 editing software.  This means whatever patch I was switching to I had the switches activated on every patch (both switch lights on on the FCB) as I just figured I need to turn these on to make the operable.

See attached screen shot.  The two foot switches labelled "delay" are those I left for switching the relays.  This will show you one patch example.  Never worry about how it is set up on other patches I just have them the same on all patches.  What I would like to know if if the way the relay switches are set here is the correct way to get channel changing on the Peavey.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Hey RG, so just watched the video again, she's using standard firmware, on first look, I thought she said you have to assign one pedal off and one on and then include them in you patch etc. But you just have to assign on or off to the patch for each switch as you have done.  So you've assigned 1 on and 2 off for each patch so when you change to each patch it will tell the rockmaster to go to Tip on Ring off = FCB 1 on, 2 off = Clean?? not sure what rockmaster mode this is, same as pressing the bypass/clean button on (led on) and the Ultra/Ultracrunch off (no led).  So obviously one way to change the rockmaster is have a patch for each rockmaster mode, just set switch 1 and 2 to what you want to mimic the peavey switch.

If the stomp box setting lets you toggle the switches then you should be able to use them to switch the rockmaster, and when you change patch it will change to the setting in the patch.  So in the video, she does this by assigning the bank up/down buttons to toggle the switches, if you can do this to the delay buttons in stomp box mode (is this mode available in the factory firmware?) it should work and be just like the buttons on the peavey pedal. 

(As I mentioned before I didn't know what the hell I was doing so I just set them to both "on" using the FCB1010 editing software.  This means whatever patch I was switching to I had the switches activated on every patch (both switch lights on on the FCB) as I just figured I need to turn these on to make the operable.)  They will be operable if on or off, they just open or close the tip and ring contacts in the rockmaster FS jack. Just select the switch settings (on or off) you want in the patch that sets the rockmaster to what you want. 
« Last Edit: Time Format by rnolan »
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rabidgerry

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Well that's just it, I can get those foot switches (delay, delay) to manipulate the rockmaster channels ok, but just not as I would like.  But then as mentioned, I had them set to both "On".  So may be this is all it was then?  I need to have one set to "on" and one set to "off"?  We shall see once I am able to test.

My train of thought was because I am able to switch between crunch and ultra  I needed some kind of custom cable.

No the stomp box mode is not available with the factory firmware.

Oh and I have no clue what bypass mode is all about?  I'm ignoring that detail as there are three channels and that's all we need to know I think.  Have no idea about a bypass mode which isn't mentioned in the manual.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Yeh the manual just talks about switching between 3 modes and isn't particularly helpful. My thought is bypass mode bypasses the Ultra - Ultra/Crunch switch (Sw2) so you can have just clean.  Otherwise, since Sw2 toggles between Ultra and Ultra/Crunch one of those 2 settings is always selected (on is one and off is the other) you'd have to bypass them just to have clean on it's own.  Clean probably is always on regardless of Sw1 setting and pressing Sw1 brings in Sw2 (whatever it's set to at the time) 

Maybe:
Sw1 Sw2
Off  Off = Clean and Sw2 bypassed
Off On = Clean and Sw2 bypassed
On Off = Clean + Ultra?
On On = Clean + Ultra/crunch?
So Sw1 has to be On to get Ultra and Crunch. So with the patch (unless you want clean) you need Sw1 On and Sw 2 On or Off depending if you want Ultra or Ultra/Crunch.
Anyway you'll soon hear whats going on by changing the delay delay buttons.  The only cable you need is the insert/Y cable use Tip lead in Sw1 and Ring lead in Sw2.


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rabidgerry

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So I have a foot switch for my Rockmaster at home.  The switch has two buttons.

Button 1 switches between crunch and ultra channels

Button 2 changes over to clean.  While on clean pressing the button 1 doesn't take you back to the ultra/crunch channels it merely switches between the 2 channels in the back ground.  The only way to get back to those channels to to press button 2 again.

Does this add any light to things?

I'll try and document this when I'm next able

Quote
Maybe:
Sw1 Sw2
Off  Off = Clean and Sw2 bypassed
Off On = Clean and Sw2 bypassed
On Off = Clean + Ultra?
On On = Clean + Ultra/crunch?

Since I have set all the patches to SW1 On and SW2 Off to begin with we shall see what channel this actually takes us to first.

The UNo firmware also allows for inverting the switch functionality.  But things are confusing for me as it is so I won't mess with that.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010
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