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Miscellaneous => Rants & Raves => Topic started by: Kim on September 22, 2019, 09:37:03 AM

Title: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Kim on September 22, 2019, 09:37:03 AM
What is going on with all this hate for bass players?

The last few years I've noticed a disturbing trend of these "bands" (which I'll use that term very loosely in this discussion) without a bassist.   :o
Usually there's just two members in these bands; a guitarist/vocalist and a drummer.  No bassist!  Then there's a local band near me with 3 members: a guitarist, a drummer, and a vocalist.....NO bassist there either.  And I'm seeing this 2-person band happen more and more as I go along.   :facepalm:  It's bullshit in my opinion. 

Here's two reasons of why I think that's happening:
1.  Guitars are tuning way waaay too low.  Any random discussion about tunings in a Doom/Sludge/Psychedelic/Stoner style genre groups brings up the "I tune low in Drop F and use ___ strings..."   Well there ya go.  Drop F?  f**king F?  WTF!!! No wonder there's no room for a bass now.  The guitarist is tuning to Black Hole depths and splitting their signal between a guitar amp/cabs and a bass amp/cabs using a pedalboard the size of a picnic table....

2.  There actually IS a lack of bass players out there.  Ever see a few different local bands share the same bassist?  (Or even drummers for that matter..)  The joke goes that if a drummer or bassist is injured and can't play, 3-4 bands are now out of commission.  It would be pretty damn funny if it weren't actually true.  Everybody and their brother or sister plays guitar.  You can get a replacement to fill in this very night for an injured guitarist within 3 phone calls.  You'll wait months for another bassist....IF there's even one around who's not already too busy playing in 3 other bands.

Gah, I don't have any interest anymore in any heavy "band" that doesn't have a bassist.  Stop being idiots and tuning so damn low.  It was cool for about 15 minutes now everything (like a lot of other genres) is starting to sound exactly the same as all the rest of its peers with absolutely nothing to set themselves apart from the rest.  Any tuning below a Standard B tuned 7 string guitar is an arrow through the chest of a bassist.  Some will argue that anything lower than Standard E tuning is ridiculous and unnecessary, but B is where I personally will draw the line as it's a "low" tuning that IMO still (barely) allows a bass player to still play and augment the sound with some definition.

If I could go back in Time knowing then what I know now......I'd be a drummer or bassist now and pleased to know that I could go wherever I wanted with those options.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 22, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
Yeah we opened for doom/stoner band a few months ago. Same deal no bass player, guitar tuned really low. I thought this is interesting because it looked original. Now it seems it's not  ::) . Maybe they avoid the problem of finding a bass player this way ? It's a fact that bass players are running thin these days. We also had a hell of a time finding one. He has to drive almost 200 km to come to rehearsal.

But you are right some of the drop tunings are getting ridicules, not a big fan either. Also soundwise a lot of metal bands sound the same which is a shame. Back in the day you could easely hear the difference between maiden, priest, saxon etc. They all had their original sound. Now they all have the same sound.

Kim, maybe we are getting old hahahahaha.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Soloist on September 22, 2019, 02:45:20 PM
I hear ya on the drop tunings. I have some axes tuned 1/2 step down, some a whole step but no more than that. It has gotten way out of hand. They must be searching for the elusive "brown note" :poop:. Hahaha.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Rusty on September 22, 2019, 06:35:51 PM
Didn't Blackie Lawless from W.A.S.P. once call the bass guitar 'The Tool of Ignorance'  ?

 :))   No offence bass players.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on September 23, 2019, 06:49:22 AM
Methinks this is over-dramatized..  It's a relatively low market for bass-less bands.
The music(k) scene always fluctuates, styles come and go.
When The Powers That Be looses interest in supporting certain styles intended for driving certain defined types of youth in wanted directions, because of change in their objectives, most of this stoner/death/crap lack-of-real-metal will mostly fade away.
Same goes for certain types of pop.

MK Ultra/Monach just isn't that sexy anymore.
The world is awakening.

If you think the above is bordering on being wacky, you haven't realized that music is considered a weapon, and that many rough styles - plus much crap pop shit - was designed for the purpose of influencing the mind.
Nicely coupled with alcohol and drugs..
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Zilthy on September 23, 2019, 10:50:39 AM
The Doors did not have a bassist.  *shrug*
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 23, 2019, 12:31:23 PM
The Doors did not have a bassist.  *shrug*

Touché  ;D
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on September 24, 2019, 03:30:46 AM
Gents,

As a bass player I can, obviously, not refrain from putting in my 2 cents.

For the drop tuning guitars:
I like them a lot, if it includes also a bassplayer.
Low tuned guitars are fun, but do not provide a fundament on which to build a good sound, the physics simply do not allow for that.
Compare Animals as Leaders (no bass) with bands like TesseracT (amazing bassplayer) or Jinjer (also amazing bassplayer) for instnce
Virtuoso guitarist deserve a solid bassplayer to make them shine.

The doors had a bassplayer, but in the form of the Keyboardist's lefthand. It is efffective to provide a fundament, but does lack a bassist feel.
On the other hand if a bassplayer plays keyboard bass it instantly becomes more effective (Rush, Saga) due to the 'feel'
So far I've found only 1 exception to that rule https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocpi_saZQak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocpi_saZQak) Johansson/Johansson/Holdsworth

As for the shortage of bassplayers:
Certainly a part, I've always had plenty of work. Only now it's slowing down, but more since I'm slowing down and being more selective.

Bring back and keep up the Low end (not meaning low quality, but quality Low)


Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on September 24, 2019, 04:51:16 AM
Hehe.. talking about low-end, just switch from guitar to the almost 40" Quake bass, tune low, as in sub-C, and go out and blast dem low-tuning axe players to Kingdom Come ;)

What about Lenny, BTW..  Did he play bass or long-scale baritone powerchords on his Rickenbacker into a couple Marchalls with distortion..
I sometime played ultra long scale baritone with distortion on my 7-string 35" Wolf bass - but at least that was going low on.. a bass ;)

What I mean is, if low-tuners bothers you, start playing massive low bass, and get an extra income..
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Dante on September 24, 2019, 07:26:49 AM
There are quite a few bands with just bass/drums too (ie. 21 Pilots and Royal Blood) - NO GUITAR! AH!!! WTH??!?
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Zilthy on September 25, 2019, 05:54:18 PM
I have a new plan now.

Step 1). Post ad:  "Female bassist from Minneapolis"
Step 2). Profit
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on September 25, 2019, 11:02:49 PM
I have a new plan now.

Step 1). Post ad:  "Female bassist from Minneapolis"
Step 2). Profit
8) O0
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on September 26, 2019, 03:03:14 AM
I knew I shoulda kept my 7-string Wolf bass and MB-1..

Ad:
 Hybrid deep bass / long-scale baritone player of Thor lineage.
 Will travel for distortion. Payment in Bitcoin, Food and Sex.
 Score ;)
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Kim on September 27, 2019, 01:51:31 PM
Well, I don't have the problem with moderately low tunings.....I have the problem with the ultra-low tuning taking the place of an actual bassist.   My band is in B Standard so that a 5 string bass can still do its part.   :banana-skipping-rope-smiley-e
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on September 27, 2019, 10:36:09 PM
There once was a dude on sevenstring.org tuning bass to 16 Hz, so, at least someone cares about the bass ;)
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on October 01, 2019, 01:50:50 AM
There once was a dude on sevenstring.org tuning bass to 16 Hz, so, at least someone cares about the bass ;)
2 questions:
Did he have speakers that produce that low a fundamental, or were only the overtones reproduced?
Did he attract any female elephants?
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on October 01, 2019, 03:32:44 AM
Don't remember, but it is physically possible to build speakers for 16Hz, so..
WRT to atracting female elephants, I think this will remain as unresolved as the old question:
"If your uncle Jack helped you off an elephant, would you help you uncle Jack off an elephant?"  :dunno:
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: kawai2g4b on October 02, 2019, 11:35:23 PM
As a stoner/doom enthusiast myself and a bass player primarily, I lament this recent development. I don’t know exactly know what is causing the proliferation. I can only theorize on the following: YouTube video demos showing gear that can generate heavy fundamental tones, growing accustomed to those tones during practice runs, less people=more cash, and lack of understanding from upstart bands on how to blend the sounds of the bass and guitar through smart EQ-ing. You can only out-heavy your competition for so long before nuance and interplay is lost.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on October 03, 2019, 10:40:46 PM
the old question:
"If your uncle Jack helped you off an elephant, would you help you uncle Jack off an elephant?"  :dunno:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

(btw how does this tie in with your political correctness post :crazy: :lol:)
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on October 03, 2019, 10:51:47 PM
the old question:
"If your uncle Jack helped you off an elephant, would you help you uncle Jack off an elephant?"  :dunno:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

(btw how does this tie in with your political correctness post :crazy: :lol:)

Fits just fine: Politics is the Jack of all trades, and politicians behaves like Elephants - although without the big brain and long-term memory, but still, will Trump on everything - and you can't help them get off it..
Further, they've missed the beat, and could use some serious deep bass grooves alongside the jungle drums.

Disclaimer: Once again, I've been drifting off the beaten track.  I shall stand corrected, before being told so..
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Chip Roberts on October 04, 2019, 12:52:52 PM
Then you have these THREE GUITAR bands with NO BASSIST.  Whatever happened to keyboardists?  We're working on some stuff in B standard, but that's about as low as I'll go, and even then, we're mostly just experimenting with it and still maintain sequenced keybass tracks and/or bass guitar.  We play New Wave synth metal though, so not exactly a run-of-the-mill djent or deathcore stuff, so what do I know?  :dunno: I'm not going to speak down and say maybe kids these days don't know how to write bass lines that aren't just pedal points...but I'll allude to it.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on October 05, 2019, 12:47:03 AM
Look, my overall opinion is that music[k] always has and will be, changing, hence, new ideas new ways and new, or altered, instruments and as such, score writing.

Way back, the predecessors to the modern guitar, like the luth, had less than six strings.
EDIT: Was thinking of another instrument - the luth could have many many strings; bad choice..
What if the guitar, as we know it, had been made with five strings - and then someone had the nerve to add a sixth string?  Same thing as with today's multi-stringers..
The early double bass had three strings; the fourth was added, and today we can 5-string buy carbon DB's.

Will anyone oppose me if I start playing violin again, just now on a 5-string carbon fiddle? - hint: that extra string would be for additional lows, and, apart from learning to play beautiful, I'd also learn to rasp the bow staccato for producing low chops to go with .. tada .. djent!  :bow:

Anyone heard of Wesley Belmont? No? One of his arrangement is titled "Do you even hyperdjent, bro?"
Here's an excellent example of making 9-strings work right - if you can get yourself to dig his style ;)
The reason his works are crisp with attack down there is the use of a 30" Agile, which allows using not-too-fat strings.
(BTW, this arrangement would be super sexy with an added fretless bass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbafNZ96QZI

Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: herbyguitar on October 05, 2019, 07:12:02 AM
I'm getting old. It sounds like noise to me. All the forest animals were running for the hills.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on October 05, 2019, 11:43:20 AM
Careful with such statements, you just might start believing in them..
You know, age is but a number on a piece of paper.
Now, of course we do not all subscribe to the same mechanisms in life; it would be boring if we did, and I can understand why you don't like this clip, which was merely intended to illustrate how a multi-stringer can sound crisp in the low register when build right and played as such.

While I really like Belmont's arrangement, it is nevertheless a contemporal piece, not an everlasting song.
And, hehe, I'm 61 and in my teens swore I would fight getting old from lack of interest in what's new and hot.
Please note that this wasn't a comment towards anyone having any particular musical orientation ;)
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Dante on October 08, 2019, 07:31:31 AM
I really respect his musicianship and all, but I'm not hearing a melody. My cousin plays in a band of four of these guys...meaning, playing solos all the time without a melody. Again, they got chops...but I guess it ain't my cup o'tea.

This instrument's tones are pretty interesting...like a bass and an acoustic sounding electric. I just wish I was hearing something a little more Michael Hedges out of it (he played a Harp Guitar).
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: vansinn on October 08, 2019, 02:50:37 PM
Hehe, I fully agree quite a lot of the severely downtuned stuff does lack melody.
FWIW, I sitting here listening to Iron Maiden Rock in Rio from Oct 4th - they don't need more than a bunch of strats, and there's ample melody to boot ;)

Still, I enjoy some of the extended stuff, while, as said earlier, I do consider much of it to be a contemporal thing of the times we live in.
The video I posted above is somewhat of a standalone thing, because he doesn't try to do away with bass, but rather made it to be for just that one instrument covering the whole range as is.

FWIW, my only reason for potentially getting me an 8-stringer again would be for finalizing a bridge design I've been working on.  My next axes will be a regular 7-stringer and an old-school 5-string fretless bass ;)
No way I'd be working on mju-sick without a real bass, and I agree with Kim that much below B (or Bb) is pretty useless, if not for any other reason that most audience won't have the gear to really reproduce it.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on October 08, 2019, 11:03:59 PM
I think this guy really sounds like a guitar player, wannabee bass player.

He is honing his bass chops but using it on something that doesn't sound like a bass and he's still thinking as and sounding like a guitarplayer.

That being said if any of you 6, 7, 8 , 9 , 10 string guitar players needs a real bass backing, just send me an message  :metal:

Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Zilthy on October 10, 2019, 08:22:53 PM
This thread has actually gotten me feeling a bit frisky.... I think I will setup a new axe I just got for D Standard (Drop C with a D-Tuna).  Which is no where near as low as a lot of these new ones are, but might be kind of fun.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Kim on October 12, 2019, 09:48:12 AM
I really respect his musicianship and all, but I'm not hearing a melody....

Same here.  While I'd never say it's bad or passionless playing, I'm just not feeling anything in there at all.


This thread has actually gotten me feeling a bit frisky.... I think I will setup a new axe I just got for D Standard (Drop C with a D-Tuna).  Which is no where near as low as a lot of these new ones are, but might be kind of fun.

One time I had four guitars; each tuned differently for experimental/research/practice purposes.  Standard E, Standard Eb, Drop D (later Standard D), and Standard B.     I can say that I personally found the D guitar the "chunkiest" and the "shreddiest" even when using the exact same amp and settings for each guitar.  If I ever decide to do another project besides my current band, I'm going with the Standard D tuning for it.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Kim on May 22, 2022, 06:15:10 PM
Digging up an old thread.... ::)

There was a local show this last weekend.  5 bands (gaa don't get me started on that.  Get off my lawn!) playing and 4 of those bands had 2 members all consisting of a guitarist/vocalist and a drummer.  The fifth band had three members, a guitarist, a vocalist, and a drummer but still...no bassist.  DAMMIT. >:(

So it seems to be a trend that's lasting a little longer than I hoped. 
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rnolan on May 23, 2022, 02:26:22 AM
Hey Kim, well it's good there was a local show with bands  :thumb-up: .  I didn't know the having no bass player had become a thing/trend  :facepalm: , bad idea IMHO.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Peter H. Boer on May 24, 2022, 03:54:45 AM
Digging up an old thread.... ::)

There was a local show this last weekend.  5 bands (gaa don't get me started on that.  Get off my lawn!) playing and 4 of those bands had 2 members all consisting of a guitarist/vocalist and a drummer.  The fifth band had three members, a guitarist, a vocalist, and a drummer but still...no bassist.  DAMMIT. >:(

So it seems to be a trend that's lasting a little longer than I hoped.

Everybody is listening to 'music' through their cheap a** earbuds.
People don't even know what a bass sounds like anymore  :'(
No wonder they need drugs to dance  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rabidgerry on May 27, 2022, 08:52:20 AM
When something becomes a trend in this day and age I make sure I ignore it.

It's stupid development in my opinion.  I tune to E standard 440hz and I will never ever tune to anything lower not even dropped D  :o

So I need a bass player and want a bass player.  Had it not been important I would have spent 10 months looking for a new one.

As for the doors, pretty sure they had a stand in guy for albums and live if not all the time, some of the time plus that had Manzarek filling out lower registers.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Harley Hexxe on May 27, 2022, 03:18:32 PM

Digging up an old thread.... ::)

There was a local show this last weekend.  5 bands (gaa don't get me started on that.  Get off my lawn!) playing and 4 of those bands had 2 members all consisting of a guitarist/vocalist and a drummer.  The fifth band had three members, a guitarist, a vocalist, and a drummer but still...no bassist.  DAMMIT. >:(

So it seems to be a trend that's lasting a little longer than I hoped.
Everybody is listening to 'music' through their cheap a** earbuds.
People don't even know what a bass sounds like anymore  :'(
No wonder they need drugs to dance  :facepalm:

     
       +1  :lol: :lol: :lol: You tell'em Peter

About the Doors... Ray Manzarek did do the bass parts on the recordings, but for live shows, the bass guitar was handled by a guy named John Densmore if I'm not mistaken. How is it that no one remembers him? :dunno:

Harley 8)
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rabidgerry on May 27, 2022, 04:18:22 PM
Actually no, John Densmore was the drummer.

They had a few on their albums, one regular was Doug Lubahn.


The White Stripes were a legit no bass band.  But then again they probably had one on their albums too and plus they were shit.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rnolan on May 27, 2022, 06:49:42 PM
Hey RG, good to hear from you  :wave: I'm the same with trends and films etc. I tend to ignore them.
So Dandy Warhols and Wolfmother both do bass on keyboards. Led Zep also for some of their songs live.  But the keyboard are playing (sometimes footing) the bass lines.
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rabidgerry on May 29, 2022, 10:44:30 AM
Hey RG, good to hear from you  :wave: I'm the same with trends and films etc. I tend to ignore them.
So Dandy Warhols and Wolfmother both do bass on keyboards. Led Zep also for some of their songs live.  But the keyboard are playing (sometimes footing) the bass lines.
  Didn't realise Wolfmother had no bass guitar, I think that's weird.

Aye I know I wont like something GENRALLY when there is a sudden surge in interest in it and everyone is talking about it.  That rings the alarm bells for me because general society and their tastes can't be trusted.  Avoid the hype at all costs is what I say.

I have to admit in recent times I've watched some good entertaining films, but they aren't usually those that everyone is talking about.  But again GENRALLY I like old stuff, particularly with horror movies which are my fav  ;D

Any I personally love bass guitar an all the artistry it brings with it.  HAIL THE BASS GUITAR!!
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: rnolan on May 29, 2022, 10:38:47 PM
Woldmother were/are (are they still together?) 3 piece with the keyboard player covering the bass and playing allot like Jon Lord.  You can hear lots of Deep Purple influences in their music and the guitarist using an ES335 like Blackmore on DP In Rock after that (Fireball) Blackmore started using strats.
Anyway they seemed to pull it off, I liked their music.
I like bass guitar also, particularly bassists like Gary Thain (Uriah Heep) and Jon Entwistle (the who).  And the guy from Slade (Jim Lea) was very underrated, have a listen to Slade alive, great bass playing...
Title: Re: Bass-less "bands"...
Post by: Kim on June 11, 2022, 05:34:13 AM
I realize how I must sound while griping about stuff like this.  Hence, the "get off my lawn" part.   :lol:

I do realize that anyone can do whatever the heck they want with their art and passions, and would rather not discourage anyone from doing things their own ways......but I don't have to like it and it seemed like a good topic of discussion and debate.     :)