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Author Topic: MP-1 & GSP1101  (Read 4952 times)

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bigjd

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MP-1 & GSP1101
« on: Time Format »

So glad to be back here after a couple of years away!

Anybody else using their MP-1 in the loop of the GSP?
My issue seems to be that when using the GSP out it doesn't seem to hit the MP-1 with as good of signal as straight in with my guitar. So it seems as though the output isn't hot enough to drive the MP-1 as well as I'd like.
I like the MP-1 after the GSP. In this configuration I'm able to have effects and dirt in front of the MP-1 as well as effects behind it with my G-Major.
 Have I missed something in setting levels out of my GSP so I can get a better signal to my MP-1?

Thanx, any input is good input!
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey bigjd, there are others here who run their MP1 similarly, not my preferred patching idea/gain structure (though I get why you'd want to, and why people do). Is the GSP loop stereo ? if not even more reason to not do it apart from the input drive aspect. Are you using GSP out to MP1 or loop out to MP1 ?
IMHO, and I've done some testing (posted elsewhere here with MikeBs GMaj), breaking your analogue signal path by going through digital gadgets (unless the have true analogue pass through of the dry signal (some older units do)) sucks tone/dynamics/energy.
Here's the options I spose:
Guit > GSP > MP1 > GMaj > Amp(s) > cabs (looks good on paper but wont sound as good as keeping all analogue path from guit to cabs), So don't no what the GSP does to the signal but I know the GMaj inputs turn it into digital and it sounds lots better if you mix GMaj into the signal path, not go through it (you loose GMaj CC options like master vol, noise gate) but sounds heaps better using a parallel loop (use small mixer with at least 2 FX sends, ART Split mix etc).
Personally, the "only" thing I'd consider before the MP1 is a wah pedal. The MP1 wants to get a guitar signal at guitar impedance/vol, anything else I mix in using a small desk, mine has 3 FX sends so I feed my quadverb L/R and my IPS33, they both return down 2 channels each (pan L/R) and I mix in the amount of FX I want into the analogue signal, desk L/R to stereo poweramp > 2 x cabs.
So my advice (for what it's worth) is to start with Guit > MP1 > st amp > cabs and get that sounding how you want (I suspect will blow you away with how good it sounds without the digital conversion(s)), then work out how to mix in GSP and TC, small desk with 3 sends is one way (best). but you could use the ART Splitmix solution (developed by MikeB and myself...), variation to have GSP sounds also go through TC (easier with desk option BTW) is put TC in GSP loop (or GSP in GMaj loop ? does it have one ??) and mix result into signal path.
Hope this helps, cheers R
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Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Systematic Chaos

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

The problem with mixing the GSP1101 after the MP-1 is, that you cannot use its "pre" amp effects in the desired way. Once again up to totally subjective personal preference.
I always like at least the Wah, (optional) Comp and (optional) OD/Dist before the Preamp. Also Flanger and Phaser on clean presets sound better before the Preamp (personal preference)
An nice TS dialed in "moderately" (OD 10 o'clock, Tone 10 o'clock, Lvl 2 o'clock) gives a real nice texture to high gain leads.
Also, to use the intelligent Pitch Shifter/Harmonizer within the GSP1101, the Input needs the raw/direct guitar signal cause this is where the base pitch detection sits and tracks for the Pitch Shifter/Harmonizer.
Having owned the GSP1101 myself and also in a 4-cable-method with the MP-1,

for live use (once the drummers enters the room/stage, there´s no way in hell to tell a difference between straight/AD/DA/.....) I´d recommend:
Guitar->GSP1101 IN->GSP1101 Send->MP-1 In->MP-1 Loop Send->GSP1101 Loop Return->GSP1101 Main Out->MP-1 Loop Return
If all what you have then (total flexibility within your FX-Chains including the MP-1 as desired Preamp) isn´t enough, add:
MP-1 Main Out -> GMajor In -> GMajor Out -> Poweramp

Use the Setup Wizard in the GSP1101 Setup Menu. Also Follow the GSP1101 Manual, Setup Diagram on page 11 #6

To access the Setup Wizard in the GSP1101:

1. Press and hold the Tuner button until the Setup Wizard screen appears in the display
2. The first screen prompts you to select from the seven most common setups we have
just reviewed. Use the Edit/Select knob to navigate through these setups and select
the one which matches how you’ll connect the GSP1101.
3. The next series of screens guide you through the different options available for your
selected type of setup. Respond to each question and make your selections using the
Edit/Select.knob.
4. Once all options have been configured, the message Review Your Selections appears.
Scroll through these options to ensure they have been answered correctly. Once confirmed, press the Edit/Select knob to complete the configuration process. You’ll exit the Wizard and return to the Preset screen.
The GSP1101 is now optimized for use with your setup.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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Fractal AxeFX II, Rocktron Velocity 150; Digitech GSP1101, DigiTech 2120Artist, Carvin Tube 100, Yamaha MFC10//
Ibanez RG550RF, Ibanez RGR620TKS, Ibanez RGR620TPS, Ibanez RG550Ltd BK, Ibanez RG7620MSOL, Ibanez RGR465MCA, Ibanez RGR765RCB, Ibanez RG620QMSP, Ibanez RG1420FBHB, Ibanez RGT42MDX, 90s ESP M-II Dlx //
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Totally agree with SC (a good way to patch it) but you'll loose some of the lovely analogue signal and it wont sound as good (as it can).
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

bigjd

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Thanx for the replies.

The issue I have is that with the preamp out of the GSP it doesn't seem to hit the front of the MP-1 hard enough to get the potential out of a good hot signal going into the MP-1.
When I plug directly into the MP-1 I can see the input indicator lighting up as it should and I get a nice rich, full sound out of it. Even through the A/D/A convertors of the GSP directly to a mixer.
If I use it through the preamp loop of the GSP Guitar>GSP>GSP loop out> MP-1>G-Major>GSP loop in> GSP to mixer , The the signal indicator doesn't light up and the MP-1 isn't rocking as hard as it could.
I'm thinking I can use the comp. in the GSP before the loop and use make up gain to get a better signal out to the MP-1 since there doesn't seem to be a loop output to tweak.
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Systematic Chaos

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Sounds weird....mine worked flawless when set-up correctly....check again in the I\O Setup ich you've set the loop type correct. It should be set to "Int/Ext Preamp", not "FX Loop"
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Fractal AxeFX II, Rocktron Velocity 150; Digitech GSP1101, DigiTech 2120Artist, Carvin Tube 100, Yamaha MFC10//
Ibanez RG550RF, Ibanez RGR620TKS, Ibanez RGR620TPS, Ibanez RG550Ltd BK, Ibanez RG7620MSOL, Ibanez RGR465MCA, Ibanez RGR765RCB, Ibanez RG620QMSP, Ibanez RG1420FBHB, Ibanez RGT42MDX, 90s ESP M-II Dlx //
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I still maintain (and particularly with the drummer in the room), that mixing the GMaj in in parallel after MP1 in stereo BTW will sound "significantly" better than chaining through it (i.e. done it proved it  :thumb-up: )
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

bigjd

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

I still maintain (and particularly with the drummer in the room), that mixing the GMaj in in parallel after MP1 in stereo BTW will sound "significantly" better than chaining through it (i.e. done it proved it  :thumb-up: )

You are correct sir, this config does have a better sound but, the config that I'm using puts, comp, dist, and mod effects in front of the MP-1, then I can also have those same effects after the MP-1 with the G-Major, as well as total control over it all with the control 2 of the GSP.
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

It's a hard choice, go with all the added flexibility or go pure analogue (guit >> cabs)... When we paralleled MikebS GMaj and it sounded so much better, but alas he lost all the TC CC stuff he could do by chaining through it (master vol, gate). One of the many reasons I like the MP2, the stereo parallel loop, built in gate, CC master vol, and cab sims, well more than one  >:D
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Systematic Chaos

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Just not to mix up things....the initial question referred to the DigiTech GSP1101 which is way newer than the GMajor....as are the AD/DA converters.
The GMajor is known to be tone sucking, GMaj2 (GForce also) is a vast improvement over the original.
Pros and Cons of series vs parallel vs chained vs mixed aside, some of us simply prefer to have certain FX types in front of the (pre)amp. Easiest to achieve with a dedicated unit that lets you run 4cm with an editable FX-chain (GSP1101, MPX-G2, Boss GT-Pro, AxeFX) for total/tonal flexibility.

As also mentioned above, the GSP1101 in particular needs the raw guitar signal at the input to provide correct pitch-tracking for the built-in intelligent Pitch Shifter/Harmonizer cuz that's where the detection sits.

My Lexicon MPX-G2 offers series and parallel FX chains. When in parallel, the guitar signal is hard-wired through (no AD/DA, True Bypass).... My personal tonal preference is series nevertheless.
Same with as-clean-as-possible power amps vs tube poweramps with "character"... I prefer the added character of 6L6GCs running in SimulClass....
To each their own.....

YMMV....FWIW that's my 2 €cents
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Fractal AxeFX II, Rocktron Velocity 150; Digitech GSP1101, DigiTech 2120Artist, Carvin Tube 100, Yamaha MFC10//
Ibanez RG550RF, Ibanez RGR620TKS, Ibanez RGR620TPS, Ibanez RG550Ltd BK, Ibanez RG7620MSOL, Ibanez RGR465MCA, Ibanez RGR765RCB, Ibanez RG620QMSP, Ibanez RG1420FBHB, Ibanez RGT42MDX, 90s ESP M-II Dlx //
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Absolutely SC, skin the cat in whichever way gets you the sound/flexibility you want, and yes, AD/DA convertors have got better, but apart from Sony super audio (2Ghz bit streaming, flat to 100Khz), they've got a way to go yet IMHO. Tubes and analogue however are already there, hence my approach, as you say each to their own, it's all valid  :thumb-up:
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

bigjd

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

So I changed my effects routing on the GSP and now I'm getting a hotter signal into the MP-1, which improved the sounds of my presets.
 I am using config 6 in the GSP. I changed the effects routing to parallel instead of series and that seemed to do the trick.
The original tone of the MP-1 comes through much better now ,as well as the input meter is lighting up as it should.
 I like having the choices of which effects are where , in front of the pre ,or behind the pre. That's why I have a G-Major after as well.

Thanks for all of your replies guys, great to be back here at the Depot.
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rnolan

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Re: MP-1 & GSP1101
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

 :thumb-up: and good to have you back  :wave: series the signal path goes through the device (in this case MP1 ?) parallel it's mixed in with the signal path (so split and then reintegrated).
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
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