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Author Topic: Rig Pix  (Read 189268 times)

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rabidgerry

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #45 on: Time Format »

Yeah so far what I have done is this:

Guitar > GT6 IN > GT6 SEND > MP1 IN > MP1 OUT > GT6 RETURN > GT6 OUT > Crate IN (BYPASSING PREAMP)

If I do this:

Guitar > MP1 > mp1 loop GT5 > MP1 OUT > Crate

This way however I will not be able to use wha or compressor unless I put them after the MP1 which would be rubbish since those effects should go before preamp.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #46 on: Time Format »

Hey RGerry, a suggestion (or 3 lol), please try:
MP1 > Create (line ins no create preamp!!) > cabs. apart from no FX (except possible MP1 chorus) this should sound great as a basic kick arse guitar sound (tweak the sounds a bit until you're happy). Just get you basics done !
Then bring in FX possibly in different parts of the chain (one at a time (even if they are in the same gadget), get it sorted and build from there, I'd start with reverb, next add a bit of delay (short mild for rhythm, lead what the solo requires)).  The best IMHO and easiest way to bring all this stuff together is with a small mixer that has lots of Aux sends and run it like a PA (see http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=117.msg391#msg391) for my set up.
You seem to be using the MP1 as an FX device (like a distortion pedal), I'd go the other way around, let it make the guitar sing (dial up the sounds you want) and add in some FX from the boss stuff, the tube head room compared to a GT anything will blow you away so make it (MP1) the focus  :thumb-up:
Cheers R
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #47 on: Time Format »

Hey RGerry, a suggestion (or 3 lol), please try:
MP1 > Create (line ins no create preamp!!) > cabs. apart from no FX (except possible MP1 chorus) this should sound great as a basic kick arse guitar sound (tweak the sounds a bit until you're happy). Just get you basics done !
Then bring in FX possibly in different parts of the chain (one at a time (even if they are in the same gadget), get it sorted and build from there, I'd start with reverb, next add a bit of delay (short mild for rhythm, lead what the solo requires)).  The best IMHO and easiest way to bring all this stuff together is with a small mixer that has lots of Aux sends and run it like a PA (see http://adadepot.com/index.php?topic=117.msg391#msg391) for my set up.
You seem to be using the MP1 as an FX device (like a distortion pedal), I'd go the other way around, let it make the guitar sing (dial up the sounds you want) and add in some FX from the boss stuff, the tube head room compared to a GT anything will blow you away so make it (MP1) the focus  :thumb-up:
Cheers R

Hey RN,

I've been using the MP1 as my main distortion or as my pre amp.  Sticking it in the FX loop of those other FX units is the right way to hook them up because then I can assign it (mp1) anywhere in my chain as the loop is moveable.  I have only been using it with dry(ish) patches with eq and then the odd one with chorus.

I will give what you say a go but I honestly don't think I could use it any other way without sacrificing any pre - pre amp effects like compressor and wha.  Only way around that is to buy seperate pedals for in front of the mp1 which I'm not going to do as I am not expanding no way  :nono:

I can't really place the Crate anywhere else other than at the end of the chain, I always bypass the preamp on it and speaker sim.

Things I cannot do without, EQ, Harmonizer, Chorus, Reverb (sometimes delay).

Reverbs are always subtle with me purely for ambience.

At home the set up is:

Guitar > gt5 > loop (mp1) > Recording unit > Head phones
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #48 on: Time Format »

Friend of mine runs a GT6 with either a Triaxis or an Engl SE Pre, and there´s no loss in gain....
So, let´s go through the hook-up chain step by step:
- Guitar to GT6 Input
- GT6 Send (Insert) to MP1 Input
- MP1 Loop Send to GT6 Loop Return
- GT6 Output to MP1 Loop Return
- MP1 Output to Poweramp
(substitute GT6 for GX700 or GT5)

To match all the (input) gain levels, there´s some steps as well.
First, you have to set the MP-1 OD1 (T2) Trimpot to work at its optimum setting (for your needs). So here´s how:
(all taken from the MP-1 Stock Gain Mod instructions; Step10)
Step 10: Tweaking the OD1 Trimpot
Here is how to set the input stage gain-trim:
1) Plug your MP-1 back into your rack, make sure you have ample access to the top of the unit.
2) Locate the OD1 Trimpot
3) Dial-up your favorite high-gain patch.
4) Grab your main axe, plug it in, and switch to your bridge pickup.
5) Set the OD1 Level Control to 5.0 or 6.0 (or 7.0 depending on your pickups). You will have to play around with this setting until you are happy with how the other channels sound, especially the Clean- Tube channel. I wouldn’t let this setting get above 8.0, it may get too muddy or noisy.
6) While you are doing palm mutes and/or heavy open chords (“Pull Me Under” is a good riff to test with BTW), have your little brother turn the trimpot dial with a little miniature screwdriver until the OD1 Clipping LED lights up frequently on downstrokes, but doesn't stay lit all the time.

Now when you´ve done that, you have to set the Boss Unit´s Send/Insert Level to match the MP1 input. I know that there´s a tiny knob on the back of the GX700 for that purpose. The GT6 should have something similar (or some way to "define" if the loop send/insert is line or instrument level).
Once you´ve found that knob/switch/setting, turn that knob/parameter to achieve the same results as you did with the T2 Trimpot as described above.

That should get you in the right direction  :thumb-up:
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rnolan

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #49 on: Time Format »

Ok that answers the question from another post, T2 is about gain in the V1 stage, without getting more complicated, the trim posts are about making sure the right amount of signal/gain is present it the V1 on (or V2) circuit, Too little means not as good gain and additional noise, to much means too much, and starts to clip other components in the circuit.
What I suggested is a bit of a paradigm shift in how you run your rig, (but this is all so subjective) personally I wouldn't use a boss/Rolland anything, they sound boxy and muddy and their tuners are crap (if you want to be in tune, get a peterson strobo clip, even a Korg works better than the boss/rolland stuff, they have such a big/wide dead zone). Even the rolland keyboards suck (boxy/muddy to my ears, and don't get me started with their 3rd octave eq units, blah...). But then I also don't like Boogie amps, they are well made etc I just don't like that middy sound so again subjective.
For FX, get a Quadverb or Itelliflex, or TC or Lexicon (mmm), they are all so much better than the boss/rolland stuff and bring it all together with a small mixer, and keep the signal path from MP1 to poweramp analogue, mix in the digital FXs.  But not to turn you world upside down.  If you have to use a boss/rolland thing, mix it in don't chain through it, your sound will be vastly improved (as will your head room).
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Systematic Chaos

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #50 on: Time Format »

Update on my Backpack and Plan-B rig:
Found a used iPad2 for 80€ which is now exclusively in use for BIAS and JamUp Pro XT.
Also replaced the small Peak Midi-Footctrl with a Digitech Control Seven (25€ on German eBay  :banana:)
Tadaaaaa:


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rnolan

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #51 on: Time Format »

Go SC, very cool (and compact lol)
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DaveM

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #52 on: Time Format »

My current studio/stage rig.....

Not much ADA gear present, aside from a dusty old MP-2 and a MIDI footswitch.  The Egnater is my primary gigging amp, and has a great Marshall vibe.  The Mark-IV hasn't left the house in ages, and is now only a studio resource.

The pedalboard consists of two separate systems.  The M13 is wired via 4CM with only the Egnater.  The rest of the pedalboard is used with the Mark-IV, also via 4CM.  The Pedal Pad powered pedalboard has its own effects loop module, so hooking everything up is quite easy.  The Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET is used to boost channel 2 of the Mesa. 

I still haven't purchased a proper studio desk, but the third picture is my current setup.  Though it was an impulse purchase, I absolutely LOVE the Mackie MCU-PRO controller.  I would buy it again in a second.....
« Last Edit: Time Format by DaveM »
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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial

rnolan

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #53 on: Time Format »

 :whoohoo!: Nice  :thumb-up:
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #54 on: Time Format »

Nice setup! :thumb-up:
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DaveM

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #55 on: Time Format »

It's taken me 10 years to get to this point. 

I was never really a Mesa fan until I saw Petrucci on the 2007(?) G3 tour.  Hearing him blaze through "Jaws of Life" was, tonewise, life-changing for me.  My Mark-IVa was manufactured in 1990, so the caps are likely gonna start acting up on me pretty soon. 

I bought this one on Ebay without ever having played a Mark-IV in person.....and never regretted it.

The Egnater TOL is, mmmm, "okay" but NOTHING compared to the MESA in terms of tone and versatility.  I DO like the parallel effects loop and boost function, but the reverb is THE absolute worst I've ever heard....completely useless at any setting. 

I've attached a picture showing how close I actually mike the V30 with the SM57, 1" away from the seam of the dust cap.  Funny how one's taste in "tone" changes over time, isn't it? 
« Last Edit: Time Format by DaveM »
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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #56 on: Time Format »

...until I saw Petrucci on the 2007(?) G3 tour.  Hearing him blaze through "Jaws of Life" was, tonewise, life-changing for me.  ...

I can totally relate to that.
My first encounter with Mesa amps was in the mid/late 90s when everybody went Rectifier...got a Dual Rec and a Triaxis back then and could´t get anything out of it.

When I saw and heard Petrucci on the Chaos in Motion Tour, especially the epic outro solos to "The Ministry of Lost Souls" and "Octavarium (The Razors Edge)", I was totally blown away and sold to THAT sound.

It´s that combination of the Mark Tone Stack which is in between the preamp gain stages (so all freq bands interact with the gain/distortion) and the Simul-Class power section that makes up for that iconic Mk sound ....
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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DaveM

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #57 on: Time Format »

....and Petrucci was fiddling with his rig during his entire set, but I CAN relate to his obsession with tone. 

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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial

rnolan

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #58 on: Time Format »

Hey DaveM, well that 57 is very close, lots of proximity effect (i.e. bass boost) (I've attached a picture showing how close I actually mike the V30 with the SM57, 1" away from the seam of the dust cap.) that's very close BTW, I've not seen that before, also you'll loose all the bottom end from the outside of the cone ?? So it becomes a mixture of the highs (in cone centre) and 3db bass proximity effect (bass boost) in SM57/58 (basically like loudness button on stereo).
(Funny how one's taste in "tone" changes over time, isn't it?), absolutely, I find myself wanting to turn down the distortion, may end up like AC/DC lol. And from lots of patches, I'm now down to 3... After 40+ years.
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DaveM

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Re: Rig Pix
« Reply #59 on: Time Format »

I learned the extremely-close miking from Keith Merrow.  I currently mike two cabinets in total, and quadruple-track the rhythms.  One is as pictured above, and the other is an Avatar 212 miked about 6" away, and further out towards the cone's edge. 

As with most things "tonally-related", I can only attest to what works for me personally.  I'm sure different amps/guitars would achieve different results.

I used this miking technique to create a "wall of guitar" for a track I recently recorded, called "Black Winter"

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HEADS: Mesa Boogie Mark-IVa, Egnater TOL-50
RACK: ADA MP2, Peavey Classic 60/60
PEDALBOARD: Line6 M13, MXR Carbon Copy, Fulltone FD-2 MOSFET, "Slash" WAH, Morley Lil Alligator, Digitech Jamman
CABS: Avatar and Genz-Benz
GUITARS: Ibanez, Fender & Schecter
WIRELESS: Line 6 G50
STUDIO: Cubase 6.5, Focusrite interface, M-Audio MCU-PRO DAW controller, Novation Impulse controller, KRK monitors, AKG phones, reamping courtesy of Radial
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