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Author Topic: Equalizer Cage Match  (Read 635 times)

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Dante

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Equalizer Cage Match
« on: Time Format »

This kinda applies to rack gear and guys who (like me) use a head and a pedalboard...

I've struggled with this for my whole 30+ year music career - you mix a certain EQ on your amp (or preamp), then do it again (or defeat it) on your FX device, then apply a 'speaker simulator' (which is just an fancy name for 'EQ Settings') and you have a choked out whisper of what your signal used to be - or you have an amplified interpretation of what your signal used to be, or a mixture of the two.  :hair-out:

I have started using NO Equalizer in my patches, and relying on the amp to do it's thing. Now, I make an exception for my METAL patch - scooped mids, pumped bottom end, treble to taste - but otherwise, I'm shutting it off.

*moderators; feel free to move this if it's on the wrong board*
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Zilthy

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Metal Zone!!!! All the gain!!! Scoop the mids!!!! (Sorry, couldn't resist). :D

A lot of things in the chain can be thought of as EQ.   Pickups, Amp, Speakers, Mic, pedals (Thinking of things like using a tube screamer for a clean boost - it's still applying EQ to the signal).  Now that I'm back to head and cab (and a rack unit, but I'm using the rack unit like a pedalboard) I'm not using any extra EQ from that.  But, then I didn't back when I used a full rack unit (Only used EQ in the MP1) and I didn't use extra EQ stages when I was using the Line 6 stuff either.

About the only one I will use is occasionally an overdrive/boost sometimes to shape the gain, but even then, I prefer to be able to get the sound I'm looking for just from guitar, amp and speakers.  If I'm not getting it, I'm much more likely to swap something out in that area.
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van Sinn

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Makes me think of a video by Singtall / Ross, the guy who made presets for the GSP1101, when demoing how he got a pretty good Mesa sound on the MP2..
Turned both overdrive and gain all up in voicing 8 (IIRC), set all EQ's flat, struck a chord in downtuned C, and gave this characteristic nod with a twitch on his mouth. Oh yeah.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

When I was younger and I guess less experienced I used a lot of EQ all the time with older setups I used to own.  I don't anymore.  But I do have eq's still now days, but I kinda am afraid to use them.  I don't trust big adjustments anymore like the way I used to make.  The most I do now depending on venue and cabs I have been given to use is use the EQ on my Boss GX700 and use the hi pass and lo pass on the EQ on that to top and tail the hi end and lo end depending on if I have too much or too little of either.  My main eqing is done on the rockmaster preamp or one of my mp1's.  And I usually set and forget.

EQing in front of preamp sound is different beast for me altogether.  However when I employ this I'm adding layers before what I see it as "the proper equalization stage".  It's always pretty much a boost and in a mid boost shape.  This isn't proper eqing in my eyes as I'm not balancing anything out to "equalize" if you get me, I'm adding and additional layer of drive (yes yes it is eqing but not if you know what I mean), "flavour" if you will.

I would like to use more EQ but I think I have convinced myself that I ruin things with too big adjustments on the limited eq of the GX700.  Mind you, recently I found bumping 3db in the 250hz range give a thickness to the rockmaster in my live setup.

Recording and making tracks I eq a shed load, but totally separate entities in my view.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
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Dante

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I totally get the 'using the EQ to get a bit more drive' concept...I had a multi effects unit that had a pretty bad EQ, but it really worked well to give me a little icing on the cake. I got better gain by stacking with the OD and the EQ than I did with the Distortion in that thing.
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Samuraipanda

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Steve Stevens has said in interviews that his recording technique is to max out all of the amp's eq and then use the board eq to pull out or reduce frequencies he didn't want. He said it's far easier to remove eq than to add it.
I tried this with my mp1 and my quadraverb when I had it. It works well live too.
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Dante

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Y'know Andy, that is a very good point.

I mix sound for my band a few friends once in a while. When I'm running the faders, I often turn down the guy i'm hearing really well in order to hear the guy I want to turn up. Works way easier, don't know why I didn't think to try that with my guitar rig  :dunno:
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

rabidgerry

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

For a start, Steve Stevens is a goddam legend!!  What a unique super hot guitar player!

But guy's I'm not sure I know what you mean?  Samuraipanda when you say he maxes out all the amp EQ's what do you mean?  Steve uses way too many amps for my brain to understand hahaha read a cool article on his setup one time, man he's got a fancy rig.  Sorry for my simpleness  but explain what SS meant if you can?

So that bump in the 200hz (I said 250hz in pervious post but I meant 200) I injected into my live sound recently I took away or reduced by 2db.  It troubles me when I make adjustments one week then revert back the following week, makes me think I never have handle on what I'm actually hearing.  I also bumped the lo pass up a few db again from -8 to like -6. 

Also can someone answer my question, what is an "active eq"?  This is what my Rockmaster pre's have but I don't really get what that means.  I have an idea but I can't really explain it.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

Dante

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Gerry - Maxing out the EQs on the amp means turning the Bass/Mid/Treb all the same level....possibly at 10 (I use 6-ish)

Active EQ is like active PUs, they require a battery. I have one bass that's active and another that is passive.
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Kim

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Also can someone answer my question, what is an "active eq"?  This is what my Rockmaster pre's have but I don't really get what that means.  I have an idea but I can't really explain it.

Passive EQs can only cut frequencies, but Active EQs can also boost them.  In a preamp with an Active EQ, adjustments to one EQ control will usually affect how the others work as well to some extent. 
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rabidgerry

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Re: Equalizer Cage Match
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Gerry - Maxing out the EQs on the amp means turning the Bass/Mid/Treb all the same level....possibly at 10 (I use 6-ish)

Active EQ is like active PUs, they require a battery. I have one bass that's active and another that is passive.

I don't get the point of maxing out the EQ then.  Like an engineer once told Lemmy, "Having all the knobs turned up on the amp is pretty much the same as having them all flat" or something to that effect.  Obviously though it will be louder.  But then that's what the volume control is for.  :dunno:


Also can someone answer my question, what is an "active eq"?  This is what my Rockmaster pre's have but I don't really get what that means.  I have an idea but I can't really explain it.

Passive EQs can only cut frequencies, but Active EQs can also boost them.  In a preamp with an Active EQ, adjustments to one EQ control will usually affect how the others work as well to some extent. 

See that's what I thought, but I still don't really understand what difference that really makes.  Is a guitar EQ pedal active then?  It can boost and cut.  I have a very strange setting on my Rockmaster right now (studio setting).  I have the Edge knob at 6 and the bottom at -9 and the body control at -9 also.  In my live setting (not entirely happy with this btw) I have bottom at like 6 body at -6 and edge at 0.  Pretty different.  Sounds way better with the studio setting.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010
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