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Temp "Time Format" issue Fix in Discussions

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Author Topic: Rack grounding?  (Read 460 times)

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Soloist

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

If you are using an Alesis 3630 comp. That's your issue.  They are notorious for being noisey.
That's why I sold mine years ago. The gate on it is awful  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Soloist »
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Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP1101
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
Pre Effects -Boss NS 2-Boss GE 7-Radial Engineering Hot British-Ibanez TS9-MXR M108-Boss SD1
Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

If you are using an Alesis 3630 comp. That's your issue.  They are notorious for being noisey.
That's why I sold mine years ago. The gate on it is awful  :facepalm:

I'm not surprised

No the decimator has 2 gates and one is used before and one after the mp-1. So I'm gating before and after. This works great and makes it less sensitive to chatter, it also reacts faster for opening and closing. ISP even suggests you use it that way.

Who get's chatter unless they stick a noise gate after delay  :lol:

Ahh right, I see, I didn't realise it had two gates.  So you are one of those who gate twice then.  I personally have never ever needed this.  Would you always used used two gates before the Decimator?  Do you get a lot of noise with your setup that you need them both?

So with the two gates, is the first one for noise you have coming from other pedals BEFORE the MP1?  I didn't realise you had anything noisey before the MP1
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MarshallJMP

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Well my first gate was a boss NF-1 (the old one, still have it ), then I upgraded to the NS-2 (which I also still have in my pedal board) but I wanted something in a rack so the next one was the alessis 3630, it worked okay (also used in before/after) but it wasn't fast enough for my taste and then came the ISP which was the best gate I ever used.

Do I have a lot of noise before my MP-1, well not really (I only have the dunlop rack wah in front of my MP-1) but PU's always pickup noise which get's amplified a lot in distortion pedals/ racks so it helps. But the most important fact is that it just works better this way. Hard to describe. But I searched for years to find a gate that worked for my taste.

Try to hook up your guitar to the mp-1, no gates, and turn on and off the guitar volume, you will hear an increase in noise when the guitar volume is all the way up.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

Do I have a lot of noise before my MP-1, well not really (I only have the dunlop rack wah in front of my MP-1) but PU's always pickup noise which get's amplified a lot in distortion pedals/ racks so it helps. But the most important fact is that it just works better this way. Hard to describe. But I searched for years to find a gate that worked for my taste.

Yup, but when I set the threshold on my noise gate (as per the operation manual)  I set the threshold until the noise I don't want to hear disappears.  Isn't that the normal way?  So if I set one gate to get rid of noise I have no idea what to set the other one two as the noise is already gone.

If you don't have a lot of noise before you'r MP1 i don't really see why you (perhaps others may need it) would require the first noise gate?  Do you just use it because it's there?

It's got me thinking now perhaps two is the way to go?  As you know I play loud and with a lot of gain.  But in all honestly since I stopped relying on inbuilt MFX noise reduction my feedback issues that I used to have are gone (still like to get a bit of feedback for dramatic effect when I take hands of the string haha) since I started using the half rack NS-50.

If for example you wanted, could you run two seperate noise gate pedals that were single ended?  And place them before distortion and after distortion and that would work better than say a noise gate that has a tracking loop and then the gate that goes after the distortion?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MarshallJMP

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

Well I don't use "the until the noise disappears" method, I just play with the 2 threshold until it feels right. But even with 2 gates you can use that method if you like, you first start with the first gate and change the threshold until it cuts off the guitar noise and then set the 2nd one for the rest of the noise.

Also I use a gate for 2 things, one is noise and more important to me feedback and I set it so I have no noise and no feedback.
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Soloist

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

MJMP, how do you have your fx loop set on the MP1 with that configuration? Is it just set to 0db? I was thinking of running my NS2 in that 4 cable method.
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Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP1101
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
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Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Don't use the loop, the out A goes to the decimator.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

I don't get any noise from my guitar.perhaps I don't need to bother with this.
I get noise from single coils just with distortion. It also depends where I am, some venues just have awful wiring.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MarshallJMP

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

All pu's pick up noise, it just depends what's "floating" in the air. Just go stand next to your amps transformer, it will pick up it's magnetic field. Usually with clean sounds you will not hear noise but with  distortion you will.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

All pu's pick up noise, it just depends what's "floating" in the air. Just go stand next to your amps transformer, it will pick up it's magnetic field. Usually with clean sounds you will not hear noise but with  distortion you will.

Yes I agree that pickups make noise, but you surely know what I am getting at here?  My pickups don't make anymore noise by themselves that I would require a second gate before distortion.  This to me implies you get noise loud enough to be heard before going into a distortion unit.  Where as I am saying I don't have this issue.

I turn the distortion off and the majority of noise is gone with a properly shielded guitar of course.

For me both live and in studio you can only hear noise it when the distortion or compressor is amplifying it and then that's why there is a noise gate after that device to cut that out.

About standing next to an amp, this isn't a normal thing to do in my opinion, not when performing anyways, and if I am close enough to get noise, I take one step away and the noise is gone with a single noise gate switched on.  I can actually adjust things if I need to at arms length without getting all that hum.  I don't usually need to but if I do at gigs I never hear it.  In our practice room, I might get it when I'm like 6-12" away, but again that wont be where I am standing to play songs so it's not an issue.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Soloist

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Ok, so I hooked up my NS2 like MJMP has his pro G wired and the boss does not cut it that way. Totally smothers the tone. Oh well,  the way I have it routed seems to be the best option I have at the moment. It was worth a shot, you never know!
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Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP1101
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
Pre Effects -Boss NS 2-Boss GE 7-Radial Engineering Hot British-Ibanez TS9-MXR M108-Boss SD1
Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

@Gerry, I don't have much noise from the PU's but that's not so important, it just works a lot better with 2 gates, I guess it's hard to explain  ;D ,you need to try it and feel it, play it. I messed around with different gates for years until I finally found what I was looking for.

Years ago when I had the NS-2 I wired it up like that and it worked but yes it took away some tone.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

I'm totally fine using the NS-50 which is a bit like an NS2.

I have the threshold around 45-50% (about 11-12 o clock).  This is totally adequate I find.  No noise and feedback is under control.  I still have more to play with as well with the threshold should I ever need it.  I run into the NS-50, the guitar in, then the output comes out and runs into the FX unit input.
Like this:
 
                                                                                      FX Send > Preamp In > Preamp Out 
                                                                                    /                                                      \
 Guitar > ns50 Guitar IN > ns50 Guitar Out > FX Input >                                              ns50 Input
                                                                                                                                             /
                                                  Cabs < Power Amp < FX Output < FX Return < ns50 Output           
                                         
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Soloist

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

Very similar Gerry. I run guitar> NS2 input. NS2 send> od's and eq pedals. Last pedal> NS2 return. NS2 output to amp input. Using the gate in my G Force after the preamp. Threshold on NS2 about 60% and the decay about 20%. All settings are very low on the g gforce gate. All quiet before it hits the front of the amp and all quiet after.
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Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP1101
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
Pre Effects -Boss NS 2-Boss GE 7-Radial Engineering Hot British-Ibanez TS9-MXR M108-Boss SD1
Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
Cabs -4 2x12 ADA Split Stacks

rabidgerry

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Re: Rack grounding?
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

There are a number of other ways to hook mine up but honestly, my tone isn't being affected that much by the NS-50, and on the threshold I'm way above the point where light playing will suffer with the chitter MJMP mentioned in this thread earlier.

The two gates thing I have a theory might be beneficial in regards to guitar resonance that can sometime keep your normal single gate open long enough to allow feedback, where as if you have a gate before distortion also it's going to snub that lagging resonance on the head before it gets a chance to develop into something nasty.  Just a theory.

Hey Soloist, yeah that is similar my man, my rack noise gate is like the rack version of the ns-2,  couldn't say if it was better, I do rate it highly though.  Since my GX700 has built in noise reduction I suppose I could stick that on lightly somewhere, perhaps before the loop where my preamp is.

I also have a hush IICX I guess I could in theory use this like two gates since that is what it is  :lol:  Go into channel 1 and have that cover before any distortion then use channel II like normal.  I really like this Hush unit.  It's from 1989 or something but sounds awesome in my opinion.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
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