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Temp "Time Format" issue Fix in Discussions

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Author Topic: Gallien Krueger  (Read 540 times)

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rabidgerry

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Gallien Krueger
« on: Time Format »

Well, I've mentioned Gallien Krueger a few times at the depot, and once I came real close to bagging one of their late 80's guitar units.  Well finally I have.

I bagged a 2000cpl.  This is the preamp version of the SEL which Iron Maiden famously used on the Seventh Son of a Seventh Son tour.  It's capable of nailing the tones from the Somewhere In Time Seventh Son era.  I've been chasing one a long time and I finally nailed a mint condition example.

Fingers crossed it is everything I hoped for.  I shall get testing in a day or so, so watch this space.


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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, I'm more familiar with their bass units, fantastic bits of kit, I'm sure it will be awesome  :thumb-up: .
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McLeanAB

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Any more updates?

I loved mine while I had it... I've got a couple of Rockman units now (the X100 and Ultralight) and it's VERY similar... I think the 2000cpl has more gain on tap, especially with the internal trim pots... the Rockman has that as well, just not as much.

Any sound clips?
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rabidgerry

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

It's sitting in a box beside me in work.  I take it home tonight.

I'm not clear as to how to run the CPL.  I know rockman gear is designed to be run through flat response speakers (monitors or PA), as it has been designed in such a way that speaker sound has been built in.  However I think the GK stuff needs a proper cab or speaker simulation of some kind.  I shall try it this way first.  No idea what the GK cabs Maiden used are like, I assume they are not flat response.

McLeanAB any info on how to run this?  Am I thinking right?  Just the traditional poweramp and cab?  Or if DI in use a speaker sim (I use a pedal loaded with impulses)?

I shall be testing it tonight.  I shall make some recordings and post up when I'm done.

The guy who sold it to me said it has only ever been used in his studio so it's pretty clean looking.  He used it through 

"I primarily used it as a preamp in my recording studio with a Palmer speaker simulator. However, it has been put through a Boogie 295 valve power amp, but only a few times. It’s never been removed from the studio and gigged."

So hopefully get something recorded later on.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

McLeanAB

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey man!

When I had my 2000cpl, I ran direct.  ESPECIALLY for the cleans... straight to the board, through studio monitors.  To my ears, even the hi-gain dirty sounds were still pretty damn good... just turn down the treble a bit.  BUT, I do remember running it through the ADA Microcab and getting a great sound through the monitors as well.

I did run it through a traditional poweramp and cab too... it all sounded good... if you don't have a cab sim and are dying to run it through monitors, the ADA GCS cab sim is a great box, you could probably find a Microcab for cheap on ebay, or if you don't mind dealing with computers, run some IR's through a program (I personally hate this, as I like to play guitar WITHOUT a damn computer).
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bunkyloo

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

I had a GK 250-RL rackmount when I was in high school I believe that unit was an 86 or so I traded a Randall 100 watt head for it.
 It sounded great for what I was doing at the time. The funny part people always mentioned was I had a Hartke guitar 4X12 all the while a complete coincidence a bass focused  company as well.  It all sounded good I was happy at 15 years old. This was like 1994 I believe so still a strong unit. :headbanger:
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McLeanAB

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

So how's it going with the 2000cpl?  :)
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rabidgerry

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

I'm struggling with it to be honest.

It doesn't sound like Iron Maiden Somewhere in Time or Seventh Son of a Seventh Son as soon as you plug in.

It works perfectly but I aint got it working how I want.  Perhaps it's my weird playing style or something?  I dunno.  Feels kinda strange to me.  And I can't make up my mind where the mid's and highs should be.  Is it fizzy?  Is it not?  I dunno?

The best sound I got, was right out of the units head phone jack, no speaker impulse, no nothing.  Just me, headphones, and the GK.  Dialed the 10khz and 5 kHz down a little from what I had had them at and turned the chorus on and I got a lot closer to the Maiden sounds I was expecting.

I'm starting to think the GK cabs were fairly flat response.  I dunno though, no one owns this gear anymore to ask what it was like and how it was designed to run.  So so far headphones output is best with treble dialled back a little.  It also had a better mix with the chorus.  Out of the direct main outputs turning chorus on is way to much in the mix and there is not mix control so that's not good for me.

I might need to do those internal trimp pots for gain.  Maxed out it's good, but I need more I don't want to keep striking the strings as hard all the time.  It's very dynamic to touch.  If I chug pick lightly it sounds much to clean.

The cleans (which I never use) are actually incredible.  Unbelievable actually.  Feels and sounds amazing.

But that's not what I want!  I want distortion just like off those Maiden albums.  What cabs where they using?  Who knows?
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rabidgerry

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Ok so I found a good setting on the eq with my usual cab impulse.

10khz - 2 o clock
5khz - 2 o clock
500hz - 10 o clock
80hz - 1 o clock

Gain - Max
Compressor - On


I still can't get a good mix with the chorus.

I also discovered that there is a mono and stereo switch on the back for line outs and xlr outs (a switch each).  Mine was originally switched to mono for the unbalanced line outs.  Well I switched it to stereo, it sounds much better now.  I just wish I had a better control for the chorus mix god dammit!  I can actually see me using this now at some point,  which is the god dam idea  :lol:

It feels so weird to play,  you have to play as light as possible.  I am not used with that.  I was blessed with the worst heavy touch any guitarist has ever had so this feels mega weird to me.  Thankfully I am starting to dig it,  Noise gate works great, but it's still got a bit of noise.  Caps probably need replacing.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

McLeanAB

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Yeah, keep fiddling with it!

Like the Rockman units I have, my memory of them is FAR superior to the actual unit... especially after hearing Alex Lifeson use one on POWER WINDOWS (in addition to the GK 250ml/rl).  I'm not a huge fan of Maiden, but they might have used a slight boost in front?  Not sure...

I know Fates Warning used the GK 250ml/rl on PERFECT SYMMETRY... a very strange sound, but unique at that moment in time (as did Ritchie Sambora?  But not sure which Bon Jovi album)...

It's been so long since I had mine... I do miss it, and the Rockman is close, but lacks the gain... the Rockman, however, does have stellar cleans as well...
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rabidgerry

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

It would be awesome if I could send the wet chorus to a mixer and blend to my own taste using the dry signal.

I’m not so much a massive Maiden fan either, but I do love the albums that they used GK stuff on.  Those two albums I’d be a fan off rather than the band.  I’m a selective fan I guess as I love their first two albums also.

Boost in front you say?  Would that work? I dunno if they did or were just using the unit with those internal trim pots cranked up a bit.  Their tone on the 86’ album does sound a little more mid rangey to me, may be they have an EQ in front with a mid boost??  I might try that.  I would be interested in tweaking those trim pots but I have no clue which ones I would need to adjust. Saw a photo of them on an old ad on reverb where someone was selling one and for some reason they included a photo of the internal trim pots.

I also found a 250ml on ebay like two weeks ago that someone had drilled holes in the front, and installed two VR’s to control the trim pots for extra gain on each channel.  On that unit it makes sense since to have a mod like that as they only have preset values that can either be switched on or off.  Good idea to be honest.

My only issue with the Sustainor I own is not enough drive for me.  Not sure if that can be adjusted or not.  The rockman tone was there though.  I still like it.

As for other people using GK on albums etc, man who knows how many people had it on there.  I heard Queensryche had them and a few others, I’ve also heard the rockman pop up even just for solo’s on some bands records,  I know Satriani used rockman stuff at one point.  Good enough for those guy’s good enough for me (not even a Satriani fan either lol)
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

Congrats on the GK preamp. Just plugging in and dialing in a good distortion tone won’t get you that Maiden SIT/SSOASS guitar tone though.
Both Dave’s and Adrian’s tones on these albums are the most lush Maiden guitar tones ever for sure. But especially on SIT they achieved that by layering multiple guitar tracks with lots of chorus and reverb (plus the guitar synths)....but hey, that was the mid 80s trademark.
Adrian stated in an old Guitar Player Mag Interview that they used the GK in combination with TC2290 Chorus/Delay and Lexicon PCM reverb units. I’m pretty sure that the Chorus is coming from the 2290, not the GK built-in.
But you can pretty easily replicate that with your GX700 or Intellipitch.
The gain on tap from the GK also might have ever so slightly been juiced from up front by whatever Pete Cornish built into their racks (a TS or one of the virtual stomps in the GX700 will get you there)
For the rhythm parts add some lush Chorus followed by Delay with somewhere between 7-17ms, at least 40% wet plus some Reverb (Hall or Stadium, Levels to taste).
Run full stereo with the FX, the Poweramp and your cabs and you’ll get pretty close.
FWIW, Maiden England 88 is my top favorite Maiden live tone ever.
Just listen to Adrian’s intro lick in The Evil That Men Do......THAT is juicy
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

My buddy used a 250ML for a long time back in the early 90's juiced with an original ProCo Rat in front of it. Sounded great.
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Dante

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

I've never used the GK preamps, but there is a 2x12 GK Cabinet for sale nearby. I've never seen them since the late 80s...strange coincidence. I have to agree with Adam, sometimes my memory of old gear is better than the actual gear. I call it 'the wanting' which is not always as great as 'the having'

case in point; I picked up a Digtech Twin-Tube GFX1 about a year ago. I remembered my unit sounded so great when my MP-2 was sick. Whelp, it's okay...but I had forgotten the limitations of the ol' gear. One effect at a time. That's all you get. Match it with an FX unit, and it'll work as a gain box, but it's no all-in-one unit like I thought. My memory is not so good looking sometimes

I hope you get that thing sorted RG - sounds like SC has some good advice (as usual). You'll get to use that unit yet!
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rabidgerry

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Re: Gallien Krueger
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

My buddy used a 250ML for a long time back in the early 90's juiced with an original ProCo Rat in front of it. Sounded great.

I'm going to try a boost, it sounds to me like what I am missing from the tonal of the Maiden SOS is the raunchy mid range, the kind you get from mid (treble) treble boost.  I reckon I could stick an EQ in front and get it.  However quick update on the status.  I like the tone, it's great.  Feels like nothing else I've played before,  this is definitely for the light touch players in the house.  I got a good usable tone using my setup and basically looked at online pics of other peoples units online to get some ideas. 

I noticed a few had this on the EQ as I stated in previous post:

10khz - 2 o clock
5khz - 2 o clock
500hz - 10 o clock
80hz - 1 o clock

Gain - Max

Compressor - On

I can't see if they have the compressor on in photos but I had it on for more dirt.


There is play with these settings though, so it's not a one trick pony as such.  Can't use the chorus, not without a mix control which is a dam shame as I like it.  But it fundamentally lacks a mix control and fundamentally NEEDS one!  You can mess around with it on I guess and could record using it and then blend in a dry signal but you get what I mean, you can't just throw it on and keep it on like I do with my regular setups. 

I've never used the GK preamps, but there is a 2x12 GK Cabinet for sale nearby. I've never seen them since the late 80s...strange coincidence. I have to agree with Adam, sometimes my memory of old gear is better than the actual gear. I call it 'the wanting' which is not always as great as 'the having'

case in point; I picked up a Digtech Twin-Tube GFX1 about a year ago. I remembered my unit sounded so great when my MP-2 was sick. Whelp, it's okay...but I had forgotten the limitations of the ol' gear. One effect at a time. That's all you get. Match it with an FX unit, and it'll work as a gain box, but it's no all-in-one unit like I thought. My memory is not so good looking sometimes

I hope you get that thing sorted RG - sounds like SC has some good advice (as usual). You'll get to use that unit yet!


You are forgetting I never had one of these before  :lol: so I don't have the romantic view of what it "used to be like".  However I get the point you guy's are making  :thumb-up:

I think the GK is a keeper, it will have it's uses.  And it's a unique beast.  Just might need to use it with my regular FX units.  It's also in great condition for it's age.

BTW GAS attack!  Bought a Rockman Distortion Generator as it was going at a low price and I knew by the listing no one else was going to bid so I figured what the hell!

Hey Gerry,

Congrats on the GK preamp. Just plugging in and dialing in a good distortion tone won’t get you that Maiden SIT/SSOASS guitar tone though.
Both Dave’s and Adrian’s tones on these albums are the most lush Maiden guitar tones ever for sure. But especially on SIT they achieved that by layering multiple guitar tracks with lots of chorus and reverb (plus the guitar synths)....but hey, that was the mid 80s trademark.
Adrian stated in an old Guitar Player Mag Interview that they used the GK in combination with TC2290 Chorus/Delay and Lexicon PCM reverb units. I’m pretty sure that the Chorus is coming from the 2290, not the GK built-in.
But you can pretty easily replicate that with your GX700 or Intellipitch.
The gain on tap from the GK also might have ever so slightly been juiced from up front by whatever Pete Cornish built into their racks (a TS or one of the virtual stomps in the GX700 will get you there)
For the rhythm parts add some lush Chorus followed by Delay with somewhere between 7-17ms, at least 40% wet plus some Reverb (Hall or Stadium, Levels to taste).
Run full stereo with the FX, the Poweramp and your cabs and you’ll get pretty close.
FWIW, Maiden England 88 is my top favorite Maiden live tone ever.
Just listen to Adrian’s intro lick in The Evil That Men Do......THAT is juicy

I wish I  had known that before.  That's night widely public knowledge on the internet, you only here debate about which GK they had.  But I shall take your word on that.  You're right though I can nail the FX with my other units.  Important thing is I got a piece of history and it sounds good.  Sounds more amp like for sure.  I'm sure if GK stuck at it they'd have produced even more viable SS amps with good usable distortion.  Shame they stopped.

I wish I knew which trim pots did what in the GK.  I say a nice EQ or OD could provide a nice boost in front of it though.  I shall make some clips hopefully.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
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