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Author Topic: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?  (Read 581 times)

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rabidgerry

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Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« on: Time Format »

Some of you may or may not know recently I was unable to play a few shows with my band due the fact I accepted a new job through the year which lead to me not having as much time off as I had in my old job.  Anyways, it was a big deal to accept the job for me, as jobs pay, being in bands do not.  So it was my decision to suggest to the guys in my band that we try get a stand in guitarist for those dates I could not play.  I thought that was the right thing to do to keep momentum going with all the touring we have done recently.

Anyways so we pick a guy to stand in, who we know as he used to be in a few bands locally and who we think is a good guy and we know seems to like us (as he bought our album and has come to our shows).  I take the time to train him up at rehearsals and he also works on stuff at home listening to our album.  Everything seems cool.  He seems to have a good enough grasp on the songs.  Then comes the shows.  He play's three shows and also does the last rehearsal before these shows without me to see how he fairs playing with the rest of the band in my absence.  I'm all for the guys having great shows, I wish them luck.  Then the short run of gigs comes to and end, and some video footage emerges.

What do I see?

The guy totally outplaying me any opportunity he got, embellishing every solo to the max, and changing how lots of the main parts of the music are played.

Needless to say I'm furious, and feel the guy deliberately has done this to upstage me.  Sure my ego is damaged, this guy tried copying me when I was present and then once I was gone went way off the script.
 
Am I wrong to be angry at this?  Should I treat this situation like an attempt has been made to steal my spot in the band by his over selling of the material and unwillingness to tow the line?  Or am I being paranoid?

I know how I feel and why, but I'd be interested in hearing from others to see what they thought. 

I trusted this guy to be "me" for a few nights and instead I got "check out how fancy I can play" now that Gerry is not around.

Seems like a s :poop:t thing to do in my case.  What's more, this guy has failed with his own band attempts, and only has a part time cover band to play in, so I figured he would be quite good at copying me..........I guess I misjudged that.

Feeling lots of anger and ego bruising right now, and I don't think I should, but there you go.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

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Dante

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hmmm...drama...

Gerry, I don't know about this guy, but I do know that I tend to overcompensate when I don't know the material as well as I should. I play extra notes in solos, become much busier with fills where there were never any fills, over sing, and jump around a lot. The jumping around part is the only one I recommend, none of the others are conducive to a group performance.

I don't do it consciously, it's nerves. Could be what's going on with your friend, or not.  :dunno: Sumpin to think about

Even if that's not it, people are going to do what they want to do, until they can't. So, try not to get yourself in a lather over other people's actions. Remember, your reaction is not a reflection of them, but you. I had to remind myself of that today. If it were me, I'd ask him, straight up.

Hey man, I appreciate the extra flare, but can we play the song the way it was written next time? Simple as that. His answer(s) will tell you what you want to know. Just keep your cool, the guy who loses his cool first, has already lost the argument. Yer not lookin' for trouble, just answers. Keep it professional - tact and diplomacy - you get more bees with honey. (I don't need to tell you all this, but ....I feel like somebody out there should see it)

lettuce all know how it goes  :thumb-up:
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bunkyloo

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

I totally agree with Dante on this.
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van Sinn

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Yeah, it's possible the new guy is simply very eager and/or is overdoing it, but... he could just as well be going for your job..  And given how the music(k) scene operates, how many would not give it a go when a chance pops-up?

I think angry emotions won't do you any good.
You now have more busy times, job-wise, you arranged for a stand-in.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand your emotions, but letting partly go of a position is asking for potential trouble.  It's the jungle law ruling.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Over compensate?  Well this may be, but it’s certainly not how I would respond myself.  If it’s over compensating he’s over compensated a lot.  He also didn’t over compensate when we rehearsed together.

As for giving up my spot is asking for potential trouble, that’s BS with all due respect.  I want my band to keep the rollin’ and not cancelling shows for what ever reason, and these shows were in another two countries so really important to spread our name to these places.  So I see my stepping aside as the right thing to do for the good of the band.

I think I need to state that this guy isn’t joining the band or in the band, he was asked to help us complete 3 shows.  I expected the guy to play the songs the way he did in rehearsal, but he didn’t, and to me that’s a sly.  So my main thing is, he played them close enough to me in rehearsal.  However in his last rehearsal before the shows (without me present) and in the actual gigs he went way over the top.  So that’s obvious to me that he was doing what he felt was a better way to play things, and for all I know trying to earn my spot in the band………………….all of which was done behind my back.  I don’t need to speak to him about this and say “please stick to the script” as he likely will never be needed again, but if I did need him again I would full on ask him to play things properly.  Funny for a guy with such ability he couldn’t quite grasp some simple rhythms, never mind sticking in sweep appregios in my solos.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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rnolan

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, you feel how you feel about it, if you asked him to just be you for the couple of gigs, he should have done his "professional" best to do just that so I would be pissed about that aspect.  As for you ego, let it go, your a good guitarist and it's your music, from what you say he overplayed which, to me, detracts from his professionalism and as a person.  That he maybe thought elements in the songs could/should be different, that's not what he was "payed" to do, and he shouldn't have done that.  If he was trying to get your spot in the band, well as you say that's not happening so no need to feel threatened there.  If he was just trying to maximize his time "in the sun" and show case himself, understandable I spose but again very unprofessional. I assume this is the most exposure he's ever had ? so he was out to impress while he had a chance.  That you wanted the band to do the gigs is sensible, cancelling gigs is a severe career limiting move (unless you are a huge star).  Not that I've seen/heard him play but "such ability" isn't something I'd credit him with.  Grasping and delivering the rhythms and the essence and energy of the song is ability, chucking in sweep arpeggios, while sounding impressive, isn't ability, he's just rattling off stuff he's practiced over and over (look at me, look at me  :facepalm: , aren't I great).  Don't stay angry, his actions were puerile IMO, he hasn't got a patch on you, you care about the whole, he just cares about himself and what he can get out of it (which is unfortunate for him as he had the chance to do something really decent).  If I were you I'd never use him again, he had his chance.  But if you did (and you've done some work to get him up to speed) don't "ask" him to play things properly, tell him to.  You are paying him to stand in, so he should just do his job.  Anyway, my 2 cents worth.  :wave:
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Soloist

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

I agree with Richard.  I dont think the stand in was trying to show you up, or steal your slot in the band. However I do think he wanted to show off a bit, maybe to use some of that video footage as a "resume'" of sorts to land another gig, maybe his ego got in the way. Either way it was very uncool of him to do so. As Richard said that wasn't what he was paid to do. Your the man in your band, he was a temporary  stand in. I wouldn't waste the energy being upset. Piss on him, he just screwed himself out of any future fill ins for you.
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Dante

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Richard brings up a good point; the Golden rule. The man with the gold, makes the rules. You are paying HIM. Tell him to play the songs right (or, never use him again).
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

May be he wasn’t trying to show me up or steal my spot, but it sure as hell felt like it, simply because he gave me the impression he was going to play things as close to me as possible.  I even think he extended a solo just so he could show off even more at one point.  I couldn’t believe that!

But I guess You are both right, not worth wasting my energy being angry at him.  I just didn’t think he would have done that, really trusted him.

And yes, I myself put money in to pay for this guy’s expenses, so yeah he’s takin advantage of the situation.  Perhaps he was trying to maximize his moment in the sun, but he didn’t focus on playing the songs the way they were supposed to be played and he played things differently in a way that made it seem like he could do a better job.

Hopefully I do not need another stand in, however in future if I do need one, I will not be asking him again so yeah this guy has burnt that bridge with me and it is a shame because he put the effort in initially.

I STILL reckon, he was trying to get us to expand to a four piece, I got hints of it at rehearsals when he would start playing stuff to whatever I was playing and it sounded good, but that aint happening for a number of reasons.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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Kim

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

That's a rough spot, mate.  I was wondering what was going on over there....

My take is that it does sound like he wants to try to convince someone that he needs to be a permanent member.  Blame him?  RBOTN is touring most of UK and getting worldwide recognition and a great band too.  Who wouldn't want a legit chance to get in on that?

But anyway....he was hired to do a job and do it properly. 

The singer in one of my old bands called me to ask if his new guitarist could talk to me about how stuff was played.  I said sure because it was the right thing to do. He later called and asked about how should he play the solos.  I told him he was free to be himself with them as long as they somewhat resembled the original because that's what I would have done in the same situation.  No egos to stroke, no egos to crush.  It's this reason I could never be in a hard rock/metal cover band.  I won't do the solos note for note but I won't add too much either. 
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

So yeah I contributed payment to this dude, again for the good of the band as some members are in a real tight spot at the moment, and this is what happens.  So I helped pay for a guy who went in to try and one up me.

Now it could be he couldn't quite crack the material, and then did his own thing, but I doubt that as I don't think much of it is that difficult.  Although he did seem to not quite get some rhythms or riffs for what ever reason.

The whole thing has rubbed me the wrong way, but I guess I'll just have to live with this and forget it happened.

What happened with your old singer Kim and the new guitarist was very honourable, now that is precisely the attitude I got from my stand in when we were together.  But as I saw for myself, he did his own versions.

Kim I know you follow our FB page, check out some of the footage if you get a chance.  Totally infuriating from my perspective.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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Samuraipanda

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

If he ignored the "mainstay" parts of your solos then he's a d*ck. There's nothing wrong with "seasoning" the parts of a solo that are more freeform but the melody of a known solo should always stand if you're filling in. Perfect example of this is Reb Beach when he played for a while in Dokken. Check out the live concert. He blazes on it and his tone is incredible, BUT you recognize the Just Got Lucky and In My Dreams solo melodies right away.

Sounds like you've got Jannick Gers filling in for you.... all flash, no substance. I'll check out the videos tonight and chime in more.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Sounds like you've got Jannick Gers filling in for you.... all flash, no substance. I'll check out the videos tonight and chime in more.

I can't actually bring myself to check out all of it, but from the short clips I saw he looked like he was making the most of it.  Bastard!

No way I like Janick Gers lol no one seems to ever say anything nice about him  :lol:  poor Janick.  It's funny you mention him, Maiden played Belfast not long back, and the stand in guy mentioned how terrible he thought Janick was.  That's kinda a weird coincidence. Anyways Samuraipanda if you know where to find the vids do check them out.

The guy might have better chops than me, but that's not the point.  I do my own thing and that's what sets me apart (I hope).
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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herbyguitar

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

I think it's all about priorities. If the band is 'all' important, then find a way to play the gigs, otherwise expect the unexpected.

If you 'have' to get a job or you'll be out on the street then I can understand not meeting the band obligation. If you're looking for a better job than you have but don't require it to make ends meet then the obligation to the other members would be to play the gigs. Which is more important? The new job or the band?
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Kim

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Re: Stabbed in the back? Or Not?
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

If he ignored the "mainstay" parts of your solos then he's a d*ck. There's nothing wrong with "seasoning" the parts of a solo that are more freeform but the melody of a known solo should always stand if you're filling in.

100% agree.  There's the "meat and potatoes" part of any good solo, and there's the "seasoning".   All seasoning and no meat n taters isn't a meal.

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