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Author Topic: Brown sound is kinda light tan  (Read 6781 times)

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Dante

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Brown sound is kinda light tan
« on: Time Format »

My Brown sound on my Classic is not what it was on my previous Classic (RIP). I have experienced identical preamps sounding different before, maybe this is another example.

Is there a way to get my Brown sound a tad more gainy without effecting the Distortion or Clean tones? I have my Brown channel on 9.0/9.0/8.0 and it's still lacking the sizzle and punch and plexi-esque qualities that I had with my ol' Classic before. It is also a bit noisy when everything is at eleven...so I'd rather not run them that hot if I don't have to.

Questions; Would tubes make this difference? They look new but...
Is there any way I can adjust that voicing inside the unit?
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

MarshallJMP

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

I would start with the tubes.
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rnolan

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey Dante, tubes will make a difference, eg the difference between Mullard long plate reissues and Boogie SPAx 7's (mostly JJs) in a MP2 is (to me) huge, (I'm sure it's more subtle but I "really" notice).  While 12AX7s are electrically equivalent/compatible, they all sounds very different, and some suit some circuits better than others.  So short story long (sorry  :facepalm: ), the right tubes will help (grab the tubes from your dead unit and try them ?)

Adjusting the voicing(s) is theoretically possible as the voices are controlled by various circuits/components, but you'd have to modify the circuit (well minimum the components). As far as I know  :dunno: there's no trim pots to change the voicing parameters (well, not entirely, there's the od1/2 trim pots, they control aspects of the gain parameters).So what makes an ADA Voice ?  What are the parameters/variables ?  Helicopter view/understanding is:There are 2 twin triodes (tubes), each triode is a gain stage (so you have 4 gain stages), each triode is individually fed (input) from the circuit which feeds the output of each stage to the input of the next triode, so from one triode to the next, you can change aspects of the signal (eg gain, eq), the gain is about how hard you push the next triode, the eq helps shape the voice (eg emphasis mids).  This is achieved electronically by circuit design and choice of components.  The 10 tube voices in the MP2 are ADA's pinnacle of this idea.
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Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

The tubes in there now are Mesa, probably rebranded Chinese (not that it's a bad thing). I'll try the tubes from my older unit when I get it back from Kim. I have other tubes in my TV Repairman box that I can try.

I was wondering about the trimpots, but as Richard says, those affect EVERYTHING. Which is what I was afraid of.

Thanks fellas
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Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Soloist

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey Dante, I had a similar issue with my MP2. I put some mesa tubes in it and it sounded meh on the higher gain patches. Swapped those out for some Tong Sols and WOW!! what a difference! :headbanger:
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Systematic Chaos

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Newer Mesa Tubes are JJ ECC83, older ones (R1 and R2) are Russian EHX. Throw in a pair of TAD RT001 12AXA-C and you’re golden-brown
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bunkyloo

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

TV repair box super funnyDante
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Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

I should mention that the Distortion voicing is fine. In fact, with it at 5.0/5.0/5.0, it's a little dirtier than I usually run my Distortion. Which means, it's got GOBs of gain.

I'll try rolling tubes, I've only written one bank of patches so far anyway. Now's the time.

Magnus; I have a TAD 12AX7 (something) that I'll try, thanks!

Soloist; I used a TAD and a Tung Sol in my MP-2 (Still do!) and I may have to try one. The MP-2 is a strange animal tho, it took a LOT of tries just to get it to sound different at all. With most tubes, it sounds the same - really good.

In case you thought I was joking about the TV repair case; here are some pix. It was a TV repairman case, with a latching door that says "Tube Caddy" on it!! Got it for $3 at a garage sale. that's not a typo....Three Dollars
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

I played around a bit with some toobs tonight. I don't know which is v1 and v2 in the Classic, so I'm going to reference them this way; front and back. If you're looking at the front of the unit, there's a preamp toob in front, and another in back. There, that's what I'll do.

I'm not sure why I did this, but I left the "back" toob the same the entire time, and rotated the "front" toob. Here's what I tried, and how it worked out;

Front: Chinese Nationals
Back: Sovtek 12AX7WXT
Outcome: Gains are great, ZERO bottom end

Front: JAN Phillips 12AX7
Back: Sovtek 12AX7WXT
Outcome: Better. Great gains, medium bottom end

Front: Groove Tubes 12AX7-R2
Back: Sovtek 12AX7WXT
Outcome: Great gains, medium bottom end. Meh

In hindsight, the Sovtek may have been the culprit sucking out the bottom end. Next, I'll try the JAN and the Groove Tube together, swapping their positions to see whassup. Tomorrow

* I also have a Mullard LP and a JJ HiFi waiting for me in the shopping cart of TubeDepot....getting paid tomorrow....
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

Systematic Chaos

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

The Groove Tubes 12AX7-R2 is a Sovtek 12AX7LPS.....good in a PI slot but more than *meh* in preamp stages
« Last Edit: Time Format by Systematic Chaos »
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Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

The Groove Tubes 12AX7-R2 is a Sovtek 12AX7LPS.....good in a PI slot but more than *meh* in preamp stages

Funny thing, I have two of those because...they came in my MicroTube 200 years ago. I never liked them in that amp


I ordered a Mullard and a JJ (both long plate versions) from Tube Depot today, should have them in a few days.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

rnolan

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Hey Dante, that should be a nice combination, try them both in each position, the order will make a difference
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Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Y'know, I didn't think of that...you're right.

I put the JAN and the GT in this morning, that'll work for now. I tried the JAN up front with the GT in back, and hated it. Ended up going with the GT up front and the JAN in the back (for now). Sounds pretty good, and oddly, a bit bright. My 4x12 cab has always sounded dark, but not with these tubes. I can't wait to see if I get a bigger bottom end with either of the long plate tubes I ordered.

For now, I can totally get the bottom I need without maxing out the Bass, which is nice. I have it at +6 on my ModRock and +8 on the Metal. Mids are scooped -8 on the Metal (I think) and -4 with the ModRock. I believe the Treble is at Zero on both and the Presence is on +2.

In short, I have a lot of wiggle room with each parameter  :thumb-up:

BTW: the MP-2 does NOT change this drastically with different tubes.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.

rnolan

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Cool, it's good that combo is working out. My guess is having the JJ up front followed by the Mullard will be they way to go but  :dunno: .
With the MP2 was subtle, more about the 3D the long plates bring, it responded differently to my fretting.  I also found the Boogie STRs (JJ I suspect) broke up on the bottom E in a not so good way.  Though I put in pairs of the same tube, I should try mixing them up in another unit.
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Dante

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Re: Brown sound is kinda light tan
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

TOOB ROLL DAY!!

I received a package in the mail today, from Dougs Tubes. It contained a lot of packing material and two tiny 12ax7 tubes; one a Mullard long plate and one JJ Long plate, gold pin. I also tried the following;

Sovtek 12AX7-WXT
JAN Phillips 12AX7
Mesa STR-12AX7-A
Chinese Nationals
Groove Tubes 12ax7r2

Here's what I got, again, using the Front/Back analogy with regards to position;

FRONT: JAN Phillips
BACK: Groove Tube (GT)
Result; Gains are really good, but need a bit of bottom end. More than enough distortion, articulate cleans.

FRONT: JJ Gold Pin
BACK: Mullard LP
Result; Wooly, Dark, cleans up really NICE with picking attack or volume knob. More bottom end and more gain than the JAN/GT combo.

FRONT: JAN
Back: JJ Gold Pin
Result; Great picking attack, a bit bright overall.

FRONT: Mullard
Back: JJ Gold Pin
Result; YUK. Low gain, lifeless, low volume, no tone...weird. This happened whenever the Mullard was in front, regardless of the rear tube.

FRONT: GrooveTube
Back: Mullard
Result; Sounds really nice. Medium gain, very dynamic, Metal sound's bottom is a bit flabby tho. Gains are smooth and buttery, but that loose bottom.

FRONT: GrooveTube
Back: JJ Gold Pin
Result; Metal bottom is TIGHT. Plexi-ish brown tone that is really responsive to picking attack. Gains are a wall of sound, yet articulate. Very nice.


Disclaimer:
These are my results and are dependent on a great many factors, including (but not limited to) guitar construction, pickups, strings, speakers, speaker cabinet variances, effects devices, barometric pressure, UV rays, and my shitty hearing. This is what sounded good TO ME. Your mileage may vary, tone is subjective.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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ADA Gear: MP-1 Classic | MP-2 | Viper Combo | MicroTube 200 | MicroFet | MXC w/Quad Switch
Current Live Rig (wait 10 min., it'll change): Carvin V3m head into my Viper combo as a speaker cab, using my TCE G-System via 4CM.
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