ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Board added for "Routing & Patching" in Lets Get Technical

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Rack Development  (Read 1914 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4901
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #15 on: Time Format »

Hey RG good news  :thumb-up:
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

van Sinn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 575
  • Know Thy Law
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #16 on: Time Format »

Hehe, that's what Harley (IIRC) wrote about years ago - isolating all devices from the rack rails (as I reproduced above).
Hum is damn annoying; good for you it's gone.
WRT lights possibly causing hum.. this will only happen if something in the rack is subject to receiving the electro-magnetic radiation/interference produced by those lights. Again, ground loops, incorrect shielding, unbalanced cables...

Joke: Audiophiles are unbalanced, single-minded people, because they're using single-ended, rather than balanced, cables..  :facepalm:
Logged

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #17 on: Time Format »

Now bare in mind I did not isolate everything.

So items that were not isolated where my Furman PC, and my Peavey Rockmaster preamp.  I think I noticed on observation that the preamp and furman don't seem to touch although could be easily isolated if they were.  Regardless if they are touching via top and bottom panels is irrelevant anyway as I didn't put tape around the rack ears, so for what ever reason, those two units don't seem to have an issue, where as the GX700 and NS-50 which both use separate walwarts do have an issue.

I will send a few pics and also post how I have wired everything up.  I had an idea about how to run things a bit differently (by not using the ns-50 loop for tracking the guitar) and hopefully reduce the hum but in practice, when I tried this in London the noise I was getting from lights/poor wiring was so bad I just continued with my original method of

Guitar > Ns-50 Guitar in > Ns-50 Guitar Out > GX700 In > GX700 Send > Rockmaster In > Rockmaster Out >

Ns-50 In > Ns-50 Out > GX700 Return >  GX700 Stereo Out > Rocktron Velocity
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #18 on: Time Format »

diagram
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4901
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #19 on: Time Format »

Hey RG it seems (my guess) the wall warts caused issues because they don't have an earth, so the unit will earth other ways ie connectors/jacks and rack rails. So when you isolated them from the rails they now earth through the jacks only. 
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #20 on: Time Format »

Now I don't know exactly the details, but what you are suggesting Richard, makes sense.

And to think when I was running my rig using a floor FX unit I had to use the ground loop isolation box to get rid of the hum  :lol: and of course I had those really long cable runs.  My set up time is a lot quicker now as most of the cabling is contained in my rack cases and I only really have to plug a few things in now and run a guitar cable, speaker cables and midi cable (using the FCB1010 controller which initially I thought was broke but turned out it was a conflict in my programming of the expression pedal A).

I don't know whether to isolate any of the other units,  should I or should I just leave it?

I played a show last night (night my best performance) in Belfast and noticed no hum what so ever.  Bare in mind this hum I'm talking about wasn't blatantly coming through as I have the noise gate, but you would catch a bit of it before the noise gate would shut off the sound or when the strings where un muted.  Now I detect none of that.  Where I noticed the hum most was in our practice room, so I can be sure this has really worked once I get my rig back into that room.

Looking forward to that test.  This is my first fully rack mounted setup.  Sure I can't take it abroad with me but it's nice to do all the uk shows with this setup.

See pics attached.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/imziqlmyo01ag6t/WP_20180826_12_34_29_Pro.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/10h95dg97xs3x86/WP_20180826_12_34_55_Pro.jpg?dl=0

sorry I cannot rotate these pics in shit dropbox!
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4901
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #21 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, unless you get hum when you do the practice room test, then I suspect you've got it nailed for now  :thumb-up: .  I don't get any hum in my rack and nothing is isolated at the rails (SKB 8 RU rack).  I have one long power board (velcroed vertically to the rear right hand side) which just has one overall on/off switch.  Everything plugs into it.  The Quadverb and Midiverb 4 both have Alesis power adapters, wall wart for MXC foot switch phantom power, MP2, MB1, Carvin DCM 200L and mixer all plug in directly.  Like you, I just plug in 2 speaker cables, the 7 pin midi cable and a guitar lead... nice easy setup.  And mostly I just use 1 ADA Slant split stack wired stereo.I have a small wheely case (aka plane carry on style) which I carry the MXC, expression pedal, Quad switch, leads (guitar, speaker, midi, power extension), tuner, sweat bands, capo, slide, towel and small triangle guitar stand, and sometimes a few mic leads.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rnolan »
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #22 on: Time Format »

Not sure I added this part in about programming the FCB1010 the way I liked, but here goes.

So I had the issue of not being able to get things to switch on and off like I wanted without having to create separate patches for everything due to the limits of the FCB1010.  Well it turns out I was able to get what I wanted to happen by having FX controlled by the same CC message.

So for example, I thought I would need three separate CC’s to do what I wanted, which was to turn an effect on whilst turning another effect off and also boosting the volume.  However I was wrong.  I didn’t realise that I actually just needed assign the same CC to the three assignable parameter changes.

So by having (for example)  CC1 programmed into turning Chorus module off, also to turn Delay Module on, also boost Output a little I was able to get the three functions all to happen via the press of one switch.  Then to reverse the changes, press the switch again to turn the Chorus back on, Delay off, and lower Output.  This is totally perfect for my needs.  Now some of you guys may have thought of that already but to me it took a little time for the penny to drop on how to achieve my goals.  So if any of you ever need to do more than one thing at once with the press of one midi switch and haven’t thought about it before, remember, if you can program in one of your patches effects to come on and off or parameters to change using the same CC message, you can pull this off.  Apologies to anyone of you who have already thought of this and think it’s plainly obvious to do that.

Hopefully this can help someone in the future.

Now my FCB1010 is programmed how I like and my GX700 is programmed how I like I have a fully functioning rack set up that has already completed two and a half mini tours.


Mikeb, do you know how to use the Switch 1 and Switch 2 outputs on the FCB1010?  I was thinking it would be cool to implement these as well.  Any advice would be very welcome.  Cheers.
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4901
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #23 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, Glad you got it working the way you wanted it  :whoohoo!: . And good info for those playing around with their FCBs or similar.  The main thing is working out what you want to happen (requirements) and then how to implement them.  Different gear has different capabilities and possibilities and there are generally a number of ways to achieve the outcome (requirement).  ADAs implantation of CC was early days and various units have limitations compared to more recent bits of kit.  Your FCB can do so much more than my MXC but a MP1 ignores everything except patch changes, so you have to map what you've got to the other stuff you've got.  Often that involves multiple patches to achieve the result (one way to go), what one can do with one CC toggle message depends on what the receiving gear can respond to, or what it has to be set to as a starting point.  E.g. the MB1 has to have some on/off parameters (like chorus on/off) on in the patch so then you can toggle it.My "limited" understanding of the FCB from chats with Mike is pressing 1 button can do a bunch of stuff (good news for modern man) and you can program it from a PC interface, the main thing though is working out exactly what you want (which you've done  :thumb-up: ) which is the plainly obvious bit to me.  How you achieve it then depends on what you have and understanding what it can or can't do.  E.g. like Mike having a FCB, MP1 & GMaj2.  So the MP1 is just going to respond to patch changes, the GMaj2 however, will respond to lots of stuff from the FCB including various CC messages including 2 expression pedals.Anyway it's never really plainly obvious (well maybe sometimes if it's really simple), while what you can do may be obvious if you know the gear well, what someone else wants is what they want.
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Chip Roberts

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
  • Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
    • Chip Roberts Official
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #24 on: Time Format »

Sort of co-opting the topic of foot controllers and continuous control, does anyone know a good resource to go to for programming this stuff?  I'm trying to get my ART unit to talk to the pedals on the ART X15 controller and the manual is very cryptic.
Logged
Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

MikeB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #25 on: Time Format »

Mikeb, do you know how to use the Switch 1 and Switch 2 outputs on the FCB1010?  I was thinking it would be cool to implement these as well.  Any advice would be very welcome.  Cheers.

Hi Gerry,
The switch outputs are intended to interact with gear that uses a simple switch to change settings rather than midi. For example, if you had a midi effects unit and an amp head,  the fcb can be switching your amp channels as well as sending midi stuff to your effects unit at the same time without you having to tap dance. All my gear is midi, so I have never used them. The tc g-major 2 has an output like this as well,  so I could control three switched devices at once if I had them and if I wanted to.
Just realised that I'm telling a lie. I have a Marshall combo that I could control like this if I ever used it.
Hope that helps.
Cheers.
Mike
Logged
I don't feel tardy!

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #26 on: Time Format »

I get ya now Mike.  Perhaps I could wangle it so I could change channels on my Peavey Rockmaster, it has a three channel, one foot switch input socket and using the right kind of pedal you can switch between clean, crunch and ultra.  A stereo lead does the trick.

Mike do you know how to programme the FCB so that pressing a preset patch will also send 2 CC messages and two different values, but then pressing the same preset will send alternating CC values?  I feel like I have managed this myself but it's not doing what I want on my unit.  It does nothing at all actually.

It's in a section on the Uno manual called "CC toggling".  Any ideas how to pull this off would be great.
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MikeB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 242
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #27 on: Time Format »

I'll have a play around. I know you can send multiple cc messages, but I haven't explored all there is to it.
Logged
I don't feel tardy!

rabidgerry

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1707
  • HEAVY METAL
    • Rabid Bitch of the North band facebook
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #28 on: Time Format »

thanks man that would be great.

I have my unit set up as I want, however, I think if I could utilize the feature of pressing the preset/patch switch again to act as my control for solo boost/effect on/effect off then that would free up the stomp box switch that I currently have programmed to do this.  So basically I could hit preset 1 to switch to a patch.  Then hit it again to turn an effect on, an another effect off, and also boost the output volume.

Can't seem to crack it though.
Logged
"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4901
Re: Rack Development
« Reply #29 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, my understanding is when you press a button it sends a number of messages which you can program, I seem to recall Mike saying 5 per switch.  What those 5 are you can program e.g. 1 = patch, 2 = toggle, 3 = CC etc.  Pressing the same switch again will send the same messages again, so if say 2 of the messages are toggle, the 2nd press would reverse the toggle sent in the first press (well not really reverse as it is just a simple toggle message and the result will depend on the parameters state in the unit you are changing), e.g. if chorus was on to start with and delay was off and you sent them both a toggle, the chorus should go off and the delay on, probably send a 1 for on and 0 for off  :dunno: .  CC messages are a little different and you need to consider "latching", once the assigned CC is latched with its target it operates and sometimes (depending on the receiving unit) the target needs to be on to begin so the patch in the unit needs to have the target on (e.g. chorus on, loop in etc, the MB1 is like this) for the latch to work.  Similar with expression pedals, if say you are sweeping unit (not patch) master volume (as I do with MP2), I have to perform an initial sweep that at least equals what the unit is currently set to to get it to latch, after that it controls the parameter.  So each time I turn on my MP2 I have to sweep the pedal once to latch it, so I sweep full up then full off and it's then good to go. But this is MP2, other units may respond differently depending on their age as CC has evolved.I posted some detailed explanations for using CC with the MB1 and MP2 a while ago, they both respond a bit differently.  I had my head around it back then, it's a bit of a mind f@ck at first.  The later MB1 manual (or was it in the later EPROM upgrade notes ?) and the MP2 manual have detailed explanations which I tried to summarise and explain.
To get your Rocktron to play, you will need to send it what it wants to hear (probably a 2 bit binary number 00, 01, 10 or 11  :dunno: depends how it works).
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up