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Author Topic: MP-2 and Multi-FX  (Read 573 times)

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Griphook

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MP-2 and Multi-FX
« on: Time Format »

Hey Folks,

how do you use your Multi-FX Units on your MP-2?
I do not use the FX-Loop, nor do I have a stereo Rig :/

I want to rebuild my sound and I wonder, what the best way is to connect my "GMajor 2" to my MP-2.

Currently my signal-flow is:

Guitar --> Line 6 G50 --> Vox v847 WAH (Modded to true Bypass) --> Modded FCB1010 MIDI-Controller --> MP-2 -->(serial connection Mono) TC Electronic G-Major 2(Mono) --> Brunetti RockIt (PowerAmp)(Mono)


How does using the FX-Loop affect my FX? Am I correct, that the FX-Loop is parallel? I never used a parallel Loop before.

I modded my FCB1010:
The Controller uses a UnO-Chip fpr better programming and controllability.
Originally, the FCB has 2 jacks for changing Presets on a Rackhead. I used the relais to create my own controllabe 2-channel Looper. In the 1. channel I got a few Drives (JPTR FX Tesla Wolf --> Nano Muff --> DIY Friedman BE-OD). Channel 2 is for my Vox TimeMachine Delay.
So I can activate each channel separately for each preset I use and every effect is Before the MP-2

Thank you for your responses :)

Greetings from Germany
Grip
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey Grip, greetings from Australia  :wave: :beer: . As you may have read in other posts, I use a small desk, always run it in stereo (hard to go back to mono once you try it) and run my rig much the same as I would a stereo PA.  I've never used the MP2 loops, but that's because I can do it all at the desk and it's easier.  I don't use anything in front of the MP2, particularly delay, I'd rather delay the distorted guitar tone than distort the delays, sounds better IMHO.  In the MP2 signal chain, the wah and compressor are before the tubes, so if anything you "might" use these Fx pedals before the MP2.  But I use very little Fx these days.The MP2 loop is indeed parallel (so it's like a mini mixer in a way).  The returns are mixed back in with the dry signal, you set the mix level in the patch.  So the easy option for you is to put the GMaj2 in the loop, set it's dry/wet mix to full wet and adjust the overall dry/wet mix with the return levels. Then stereo out to poweramp > 2 x cabs.  Thus you have full analogue MP2 signal mixed with GMaj2 "digitised" signal.  Using the loop for the GMaj2 is a "slightly" better sounding option than putting the GMaj2 after the MP2 (eg MP2 > Gmaj2 > poweramp > cabs).  This is because the GM2 converts its inputs to digital, does its stuff, converts it back to analogue at its outputs (so no direct analogue signal).  Using the MP2 loop preserves the analogue signal and mixes in some Fx to it.  Mike and I tested this with his MP1 and GM2, it does sound slightly better, but as SC will tell you, there's not much in it (and he's right).
But you can patch all the stuff you have in a variety of ways.But I'd start with GM2 in the loop and go STEREO  >:D
So my rig, I use a Yamaha AM802 8 ch mixer (it has 3 Fx sends) Guit > MP2 A/B > ch1 & 2 (pan L/R), Cab sim out A/B > ch3 & 4, Mixer send 1 turned up on ch 1 & 3 (ie L) and send 2 up on ch 2 & 4 (ie R), send 1 & 2 master outs > Quadverb L/R, Quadverb > ch 5 & 6, Mixer send 3 turned up a bit on ch 1,2,3&4 > L (mono) of Alesis Midiverb 4, MV4 outs L/R > ch 7 & 8 send 1 on ch7 and send 2 on ch8 turned up (so MV4 return also goes to Quadverb), main mix outs > poweramp > cabs or main mix outs to recording input (turn ch1 & 2 down, 3 & 4 up ie signal in the desk is cab simmed for recording, for amp cab set up turn ch 1 & 2 up and 3 & 4 down (off).  So Fx wise I run the QV as mild stereo delay and some chamber reverb as an overall setting for all patches.  Both QV and MV4 set to full wet. The MV4 I worked in in case I want some special Fx eg flange, a big delay etc but I haven't bothered, it's there if I need it but I keep things so simple these days.
 
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Hanneman213

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

I connect my TC Electronics G Major 2 as serial to mp2 in order to use, modulation, pitch, eq effects properly. I don't consider that a ''parallel'' connection is necessary for delay or reverb. I just connect my Noise Supressor Pedal through its own loop, with 4 cable method.
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Griphook

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Thanks for your Input, but my problem is, that I can only go Mono through my Power Amp. I am using the Power Amp for both guitars, so i go to the right channel and our 2nd Guitarist goes to the left channel with his MP1. So 2 Guitars, one Power Amp.

Does the MP2 downmix the channels to mono, when only One Output is plugged in, or can I pan the Loop to one side only?
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Hey Hanneman213, whatever works for you is what you want  :thumb-up: .  MikeB went back to using his GMaj2 after his MP1 (4 CM) to pick up some CC benefits, particularly stereo volume control.  However with MP2, we have that already (ie midi stereo vol control).  A parallel connection isn't necessary for delay/reverb, just (IMHO) sounds better (depending on Fx unit, this view is TC specific as they convert to digital on input, some older units don't) and is allot easier to get your gain structure right, and the  added benefit is direct analogue MP2 signal to amp > cabs as opposed to AD converted, Fx applied, DA converted (analogue lost  :facepalm: ), but hey I can hear the difference, and I care about that.  The difference isn't huge, but it's there (and I'm an analogue die hard LoL).
I understand why you'd want to chain through the TC so mod, pitch, eq does what you want as you may want them to totally control/influence the sound rather than just blend in a bit (or a bit more).  So as you do, chain through it and mix within the TC, although you can do the same using a parallel set up, as apart from eq, you always need some direct signal (except if you want "just" pitch shifted and no original pitch/note) and there's heaps of eq control in the MP2.  My QV has eq, I just never use it, never had the need (and it's digital, MP2 eq is analogue, again, my preference/predilection).
Noise suppression is an interesting topic, I've always found the NR in the MP2 sufficient and only required for the highest gain voices, but then I come from the era when you cranked your Marshall up full (no master vol back then) and controlled the beast (and squeals/feedback etc) with your fingers/hands.  Then again the MP2 has allot of gain  >:D .  Also noise suppression is sometimes required/applied because of bad gain structure, parallel will always give you better/easier gain structure (otherwise why bother  :dunno: apart from the analogue aspects I elude to above (which are enough for me on their own)).  But then, mixing all the wet/dry levels etc in a TC is the same as using a desk, just harder, not quite as versatile and all in digital.
At the end of the day, there's a bunch of ways you can patch all the thingys, the main thing is it get the tone YOU want and are happy with. So if it's working for you, excellent, all power to you (and I like you clips  :whoohoo!: , but I said that before  :wave: )
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Griphook

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Hey R,
I think I'll just try it out. Maybe I can get cool sounds with the GMajor2 in the Loop.Is the Loop before the Chorus or after?
Greets
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Kim

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Is the Loop before the Chorus or after?

The MP-2 Loop is after the Chorus and before the Tremolo fx. 
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Thanks for your Input, but my problem is, that I can only go Mono through my Power Amp. I am using the Power Amp for both guitars, so i go to the right channel and our 2nd Guitarist goes to the left channel with his MP1. So 2 Guitars, one Power Amp.

Does the MP2 downmix the channels to mono, when only One Output is plugged in, or can I pan the Loop to one side only?
Hey Grip, Another approach would use a small desk and mix the 2 guitars (MP2 & MP1) in stereo and run stereo into the poweramp > cabs.  Control how much L/R each preamp has with the channel pans (eg pan 1 MP2 ch hard L and the other just past centre (a bit to the right) and the opposite for the MP1.  So you'll both have a bit of each other in your individual cab (control how much with the fader/channel that's panned just past centre).  The MP2 doesn't downmix to mono, taking just 1 out gives you half the stereo signal (it's really sudo stereo though, one channel gets inverted at the chorus stage (chorus on/off makes no difference to this), MP1 works much the same).  You can't pan the MP2 loops L/R within the MP2, each one is dedicated to one side of the stereo signal.  The GMaj2 will work well in the MP2 loop but if you just use 1 MP2 out you'll also loose half of the GMaj2s stereo signal Fx (eg a stereo delay will be just one side of it).

As Kim said, MP2 loop is after chorus, after loop (in stereo) comes Tremolo, then Stereo Master (MIDI controlled only) then cab sims and main outs.  There's a really good signal flow diagram in the front of the MP2 manual (page 3 I think).  The MP1 chorus comes after its loop (which is serial/mono) then headphone out (slightly cab simmed) and main outs.
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Dante

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hiya Grip, Just found this thread and wanted to chime in...

I use a multi effects in the loop of my MP2. I run it mono, using the 4CM (four cable method). The dang PA is mono anyway, it does me no good to run stereo...I'm the only one that hears it. Tone is subjective, do what you want, you will anyway  :thumb-up: Here's what I do, just in case some of it is relevant for you;

I use the EQ in my multi FX as a solo boost, just pump the overall volume and EQ as you wish for a solo (I add a bit more thump). I toggle the EQ on/off with my Quad switch (or any CC controlling foot switch will work). My multi FX allows 4 CC controls, perfect for the Quad switch, so I got that goin' for me - GUNGA GALUNGA.*

I toggle 4 FX in the unit with that and it gets me through a 4-hour set of cover tunes. (rock songs from the 50s to today). We have older metal heads out there...I gotta cover the whole gamut from clean to classic crunch to modern heavy guitar to metal. So, I have a patch for each 'era' of guitar and switch the FX to the special songs. I get a lot of mileage out of my ADA gear, it's really versatile. I get pretty far with just a few basic tones. Each bank is for each guitar, so the patches all match too...just varying for the 'voice' of the instrument. That way, patch X2 is always Classic (plexi) crunch, and X3 is Modern Heavy stuff, X4 is METAL, X0 is clean/dry. So...

Guitar One: Bank 3; patch 32 is Classic rock, 33 is modern heavy stuff, 34 is metal etc.
Guitar Two: Bank 7; patch 72 is Classic rock, 73 is modern heavy stuff, 74 is metal etc.

Sorry, I get wordy  :cheers:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Gunga Galunga; Caddyshack Reference. Meaning; On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.
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Griphook

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hey Folks,
thanks for your Input!
Dante, how do you use the 4CM to get a mono signal?
I use a multi effects in the loop of my MP2. I run it mono, using the 4CM (four cable method). The dang PA is mono anyway, it does me no good to run stereo...I'm the only one that hears it. Tone is
I want to implement the same system. So I always know, which kind of "Voice" I'm using by just looking at the number. Currently I just use 3 different Patches of my MP-2 and 5 different FX-Patches of the GMaj2.

The manual says:
Quote
Settings: On/OffWe always recommend using G-Major 2 in aserial or loop setup as this will allow you tobenefit from all the unit’s effects and features.If, however, you intend to use G-Major 2 in aparallel setup or a parallel loop, its Kill Dryfunction will come in handy.With Kill Dry activated, no direct signal ispassed to the outputs of G-Major 2.
Maybe I will try this and get a Miniature Sum, to Sum Up the Stereo Output to Mono.

@R:It is not me, who uses both, MP-2 and MP-1.Our rythm Guitarist uses the MP-1 and left Channel of the Power-AmpI am using the MP-2 and the Right channel of the Power-Amp.
To keep the Rack "kinda" compact (has already 8 RU), I cant really use a Rack-Mixer or something like that for Live-Usage.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Griphook »
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MarshallJMP

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

You sometimes have to be careful with summing stereo signals to mono. Like with a chorus, the way they make a stereo chorus is by keeping the original signal in phase at both the left and right output but the chorus signal on the left (or right) has been 180 degrees phase shifted, so what will happen I think is that both the chorus signals will be cancelled out so you will hear no or very little chorus effect. Best is always to use one out (left or right) when going mono. My 2 cents.
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Hey Grip, no worries,  I understand how you are doing it, ideally you'd both have your own stereo rigs, your options are run just 1 channel (MP1 & MP2) each (as you are) and not gain any of the stereo advantages (and as MJMP says, trying to sum the channels can/will cause problems), do something along the lines I suggested (just sit a desk on top of the rack) OR have separate racks and 2 cabs each (or cabs wired stereo).  As with my band, I run my 8RU rack (MP2, Quadverb, Desk, Amp (DCM200L), stereo cab) and Mike runs his MP1 in 4RU rack with Gmaj2 and B200s into stereo cab.  The best way is to have your own rigs as Mike and I do, however, my suggestion is a middle ground where what you currently have will sound allot better as it will pick up all the stereo(ness) with what you currently have by just adding 1 desk and changing patching a little.
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Feki

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Hello, I have a question about FX. standard input works well with my G-Major, but there's a big loss on the ADA Gain signal.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11uV5qNJwedi_Zog8J-TrpRQywRBCN688/view?usp=sharing
If the setting is up to 20% it's ok, the effects in G-Major have to be 100% to be heard. Is there any other solution?
When setting G-Major after preamps it is O (image).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Th_vSj0wmb1ArbkdZk1dzeZYDcIw7fpq/view?usp=sharing
Images of all types of connections are here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17PTxGFXFTRGr_N2q7XWptIG51muLhrDR?usp=sharing
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rnolan

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Hey Feki, you can run it either way, GMaj in the MP2 loop or chain through the GMaj into the power amp.  The approach to dry/wet balance if quite different depending which way you go.  My preference is use the GMaj in the MP2 loop as then you maintain the analogue MP2 signal all the way to poweramp.  The first thing the GMaj does on input is convert it to digital, so if you chain through it (after MP2) the dry MP2 signal is converted to digital then back to analogue on output.  The difference isn't huge but it is there.So if you use the loop, the MP2 loop is parallel (not series like most loops) so you are mixing in the FX with the dry MP2 signal.  So as you have done ie select line level for both send and return on MP2, use/adjust GMaj Input and output for best gain, set GMaj dry/wet mix to 100%, then use the loop return levels in the MP2 patch to adjust dry/wet (they default to 20% wet (loop) return).  The loop return levels are adjusted/set for each patch so if you want lots of FX on a patch, turn them up for that patch.  This is much the same as you would use an external FX with a PA using FX sends and returns or return down 2 channels in the desk and blending/mixing some FX into the dry mix (which is how I run my MP2, with a small desk).The MP2 FX sends are after the OD1/2 & master, both eqs and chorus (see signal chain in the front of MP2 manual).  MP2 main output volume is set by front level knob (and/or stereo master vol controlled by CC pedal).

If you opt for chaining through GMaj, then you need to adjust the dry/wet mix in the GMaj.  This makes more sense with the MP1 as it's loop is mono and series and it also doesn't have midi CC control like the MP2 has.
A very useful feature of the MP2 is using a CC expression pedal to control the overall output volume (a global setting that can only be used this way).  The GMaj also has this option, another reason to chain through it with MP1 but not MP2.
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Feki

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Re: MP-2 and Multi-FX
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

Hi, thank you for the answer. I've tried ADA> GMAJ> POWERAMP. The result is good, but there is a large latency for switching between presets. My, GSP1101 in 4cable setup works perfect for ADA, but I need it for other equipment, another rack.
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