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Author Topic: Latency with SPX90  (Read 2482 times)

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Chip Roberts

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Latency with SPX90
« on: Time Format »

I recently completed my Rack of Back with an SPX90II (new battery), but at rehearsal I noticed about a half second of latency between patches when using it with my footswitch.  Any idea what might be causing this?

I have it going MP1 - MIDI Thru - SPX90 - MIDI In
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

rnolan

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Hey Chip, a bit of a guess  :dunno: , I remember a time (and it's from the era of the SPX90)when you sometimes had to program some midi latency to get certain devices to play (behave) with each other (this is back in the Atari sequencing days using Quebase or Notator and Alesis drum machines and Korg MOne Keyboards etc. recording analog was still using tape with a SMPTE track on the tape to lock them together).  Now I have an original SPX90 and never midi'd it up, just changed programs on the front.  However, yours is a later variant and "may" (pure guess here BTW) have midi latency options in the menu some where (worth a look).  Otherwise, it should change ~instantly given you are feeding it from midi through (unless the MP-1 has latency options for the midi through which I don't recall it does).
Then again, it may just be that gadgets from that era didn't react as fast ?? but half a second is allot.  That said, the original MP-2 had quite a lag between program changes which ADA fixed with a firmware upgrade.

It may also be program dependent, i.e. if you change from a big reverb/delay whatever, the SPX may delay the change until the tail of the signal/effect is finished so you don't get a glitch (smoothness)??
« Last Edit: Time Format by rnolan »
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

vansinn

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

The MP-1 has no programmable options for MIDI-through; it's purely MIDI-in with an analog buffer.
To my memory, the SPX90 doesn't delay midi switching based on effects, but don't take my word for it..
Sounds fair that it could be a matter programed latency for matching other gear; interesting..
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MikeB

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

When I first patched in my gmajor2 i went to its midi in and through to the mp1.  There was a lag so I changed it to go into the mp1 and through to the gmajor2. Now it's fine. I don't think your problem is in the mp1.
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Chip Roberts

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Mike,

So if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying just plug my footswitch into the Yamaha and then that'll talk to the MP1 versus the other way around?
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

MikeB

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

No,  I  go footswitch - > mp1 midi in - > mp1 midi through - > gmajor2 midi in
I believe that's the way around that you have it. When I had it the reverse, I noticed some latency. I was only trying to say that I don't think the issue is in the mp1.
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Chip Roberts

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Thanks for clearing that up, Mike.  I'll give that a shot when I get back to The Pleasuredome.

I don't think it's an issue with the MP1 either because I had it in my main rig for several months and never had any latency trouble, though that was with my Midiverb, so who knows  :dunno:
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

Chip Roberts

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Hey all, sorry to resurrect a dead post, but I bought a new SPX90II and this one has the exact same problem.  Any insight as to what this might be?  I've tried patching the MIDI cables just about every witch way and none of them seem to be fixing the latency issue.
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

rnolan

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hey Chip, what happens if you just plug from the foot switch to the SPX (and nothing else)?
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Chip Roberts

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

If I take a 1/4" from the X15 out to the Memory Trigger input on the SPX90, no MIDI thru on the back, nothing happens. 

If I plug the MIDI cable from the X15 into the MIDI in on the SPX90, nothing else hooked up anywhere, it will switch patches like it's supposed to, but still with the bit of latency/lag and dropoff in sound when switching.

I guess I should've been more specific and noted that, when switching patches, there's the drop in sound where everything goes silent for half a second before coming back.  I've never had this issue with any other piece of gear.
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

rnolan

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Like I said in a previous post, I think it was just how it was (way) back then.  The SPX90 was one of the first "affordable" digital reverbs, they weren't cheap but digital reverbs back then were many thousands of $s (Yamaha 1000, Lexicon Lark 224X etc) and the SPX was sub $1000.  I used one in PA rigs, mostly for drums (snare) and I'd change programs manually and probably only use 1 or 2 presets.  So maybe it was just the early technology or, with the drop in vol between patches to stop glitches or cymbal spill  :dunno: .  The only people using them via midi changes were probably using Atari sequencer stuff (Notator, early QBase etc) and tape for analog stuff.  No one (that I new) was using them in a guitar rig like we do these days.  Midi pedal switchers didn't exist.  So you'd select the patch and use it for the whole song (mostly).  In the PA I'd have a separate digital delay (or a Roland space echo) for vocals.  Things changed a bit when the Alesis Quadverb came out.  It was the first digital Fx that did 4 Fx at once.  The SPX can do delay + reverb but that's it and IIRC you had to use the reverb pre-delay to do that.  So it's not like any piece of modern gear.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MarshallJMP

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

R could be right, these old units aren't so fast when it comes to switching, even my lexicon MPX-1 has it.
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Chip Roberts

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Well shoot, that's a bummer!  I was wanting to use the SPX90II because it uses one effect at a time.  The Quadraverb is way harder to program in that sense that it doesn't let you turn things off.  I've looked at the LXP15 as an alternative for a "better" sound to the QV.  Has anyone had any experience with that unit?
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Rack of Death:
MP1 v1.38/Alesis Midiverb II/Marshall Valvestate 8004

Rack of Back:
MP1 v2.01/ART SGE Mach II/MosValve 1160

Pedalboard:
Boss TU2, Mooer Pitchbox, Boss BF2, Boss CE5, MXR EVH Phase 90, Behringer HB01 Wah/ART X15 Ultrafoot/

Cabinet:
Custom 2X12 with WGS Retro 30/HM75

rnolan

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Re: Latency with SPX90
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

The SPX was much more designed to be changed manually on the go as it was designed to use in PAs.  So if you wanted a different patch, you'd scroll to it and the number would flash but wouldn't change until you pressed the button (IIRC recall ?) it would then change to the new program.... very handrolic.The QV isn't hard to get just one effect, pick the right combo (there's a bunch of them, I spose we'd call it routing these days) and then use the mix buttons to adjust how much of the previous effect or direct input goes into that stage, where it's output goes and how much is output (from each effect/stage).  I have mine set to do just light stereo delay and chamber reverb but I could have just one of them easily.  It's actually one of the easiest Fx I've ever used as it has a button to select the parameters of each effect.  Also the manual has probably one of the best explanations I've seen of how each effect works (worth a read even if you don't have one).  Slight downside is if you want a long delay you have to use the mono delay as the stereo delay is limited as it uses up double the available delay resources so you are limited to half the total possible delay time for each channel.  Another option is to leave the SPX set on what you want, say flange, and turn it on and off with the Fx loop.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s
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