ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Let us never forget our beloved founder - RIP Jurrie, we all miss you very much

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11   Go Down

Author Topic: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod  (Read 15699 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4928
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #135 on: Time Format »

Hey Herbyguitar, so to be clear that you know what 4 cable method is.. it just means connecting a stero multi effects in between the MP1 and power amp in series, ie MP 1 A/B out > Fx L/R input, Fx L/R outputs > amp L/R inputs > 2 x cabs.  So four patch cables used to connect MP1 to Fx and Fx to amp = 4 CM.

What Soloist was saying to me was, ok if you have to radically turn down your MP1 outs (because of the issues we are discussing, and not what you would normaly need to do BTW), you can compensate for the gain differences with the TC GMaj / GMaj2 (as for both he and Mike they have that Fx unit in between 4CM to amp) by making the GMaj/2 input sensitivity set to consumer rather than pro.  Consumer is more sensitive (excpects a lower level than pro gear which oprates on a higher voltage input signal). So by doing this change, the TC GMaj/2 adds gain so it can take the "radically reduced" MP1 signal and boost it for the rest of the chain.

However, while this approach works (given the oselation issues etc) it's bad gain structure.  But as an asside, Mike has been able to run his ODs' really high (inherant instability, squeals, wild feedback etc and how I learnt to play (and to the extent you can, contol) many years ago, 101 rock guitar IMHO).

But we still havn't solved the MP1 issues.. :facepalm:
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

herbyguitar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #136 on: Time Format »

Well. No more squeal. My only problem now is hiss (white noise). It's pretty substantial. It increases with volume and gain. With these mods I was expecting it to be quieter but it's not. There's more hiss now than there was before the mods, but all other noise and hum are gone. I have all new tubes. What will cause this 'hiss' and how do I get it down to an acceptable level?
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
Logged
Jack of all trades. Master of none.
Gear List: Hell, it changes too fast to keep up with.

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4928
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #137 on: Time Format »

Hey Herby, well hiss can be caused by lots of things, given all the mods you've done it's unlikely to be the MP1  :dunno: but hard to say for sure.. You play a strat ?, with single coil PUs ?? they pick up allot of noise eg from fluorescent lights, even your wifi (if it's on and in range), and power can also be an issue..  When you go high gain it also boosts the noise.  But it may be as simple as your guitar output jack or a lead(s).  Go back to really simple eg Guitar > MP1 > poweramp > cabs, get that sorted so the hiss isn't an issue and then bring in Fx etc if all is good.
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Soloist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 498
  • Take No Prisoners...Take No Sh!t
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #138 on: Time Format »

Hey Herbie, like Richard was saying the hiss could be from alot of different stuff. Are you using a power conditioner?  It could be something as simple as a poorly shielded instrument cable or patch cable.

Could also be an issue with the 50/50. Mine was introducing a constant crackle, had it gone thru, replaced a few resistors and it's like new. :whoohoo!:

Usually the pickups are the culprit. Some are just noisey some are just that sensative. Pick up a used noise gate for cheap. I use one after guitar before any thing else just for noisey/sensative pick ups. :thumb-up:
Logged
Live Rig:
Preamps -ADA MP1-ADA MP2-Marshall JMP1-Digitech GSP1101
Post Effects -TC Electronic G Major2-TC Electronics G Force-BBE 482i
Pre Effects -Boss NS 2-Boss GE 7-Radial Engineering Hot British-Ibanez TS9-MXR M108-Boss SD1
Mixing/Switching -Alesis Multimix8-Voodoo Lab GCP-Voodoo Lab Amp Selector- Radial Engineering Big Shot I/O v2
Power - ADA MT200-Mesa 50/50-Voodoo Lab ISO5 Pedal Power-Furman RP8-Livewire PC1100
Axes - Charvel So Cal Pro Mod-Jackson DK2MQ Pro-Jackson USA Soloist-Ibanez RG3XXV
Cabs -4 2x12 ADA Split Stacks

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #139 on: Time Format »

Did you measure this noise with the guitar plugged in?
Logged

herbyguitar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #140 on: Time Format »

I'm running simple. MP1 to amp. All chords are good and top quality. Guitar is good with no problems. Have 2 other amp setups to compare with. Have several other guitars to compare with. Some are SC, some have HBs. With signal I get a loud hiss. Without signal I get a midrange hum.
« Last Edit: Time Format by herbyguitar »
Logged
Jack of all trades. Master of none.
Gear List: Hell, it changes too fast to keep up with.

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4928
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #141 on: Time Format »

Have you tried just MP1 on its own with headphones from the MP1s headphone out ? Every thing else turned off.
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MarshallJMP

  • Superhero Member
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #142 on: Time Format »

To measure the noise generated by the MP-1 itself you need to unplug the input.
Logged

herbyguitar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #143 on: Time Format »

I'm trying to reach MarshallJMP about looking at my MP1. Is the offer still good or did you change your mind?
Logged
Jack of all trades. Master of none.
Gear List: Hell, it changes too fast to keep up with.

Iperfungus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
  • Methodical killers do good jobs!
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #144 on: Time Format »

Hi folks! How are you guys? It's being a while, uh???

I'm back to revive this thread because...I found a possible solution to the squeal issue.

This evening I was talking to a dear friend who's a guitar player and a smart DIYer and electronic tech.
I don't remember how, we ended up talking about my modified MP-1 and I said that I still have to swap R17 to a 560K resistor as MJMP suggested a while ago (yes, I'm lazy...  :homer:).
The conversation took an interesting turn when I mentioned the MDRT mod and the new 190V (EDIT: it's 240V) voltage now going to the tubes.
Ricky made an interesting hypothesis about high radio frequencies coming from external environment, going into ADA through the guitar's pickups and being now amplified by 190V (EDIT: it's 240V) powered tubes (this could explain why there were no squeal before mods).
That made sense to me, because:

1) when no guitar is plugged: no squeal
2) when guitar is plugged with volume turned to 0: no squeal
3) when guitar is plugged and volume's fully open: squeal

So, Ricky suggested something from a video he watched: an input filter placed among cable's jack and MP-1 input.
A 68K resistor placed between signal wire and cable jack and 1M resistor placed among signal and ground wires.
I said "ok, I'll do an attempt ASAP".

Then, an idea came to my brain.
I just took my Boss DS-1 (powered and off) and placed it between guitar and MP-1's input: the squeal is gone!
I can now turn Output Volume to max with OD1 = OD2 = 10.0 and set my preferred eq and there's no squeal at all.
Simply no squeal anymore.

The Boss has some magic inside: a buffer.
Simply putting a buffer among guitar and MP-1 is enough to get rid of that squeal: signal is less sensitive to external noise.
No noise is going into ADA through pickups, no noise to be amplified.

I've done this with another pedal (a Klon Centaur clone) that has a good buffer and result is the same: the squeal is 100% gone.

When I remove the buffer, the squeal is there again unmodified.

So, I'll do another attempt with the filter Ricky suggested, I think this is the way.
I didn't change anything inside my MP-1 yet (R17, some caps...) and I'm not going to do that now: if it's external noise, a filter will kill it.

@MJMP: Phil, if this would be the point...do you think that MDRT mod would require to add an input filter (or a better one, if a filter is there already) inside MP-1 as a permanent mod?
Does all this make sense to you, mate?

@MikeB: can you do a similar test, man?

Of course, if that were the problem...then environment can be its origin and different environments can produce different effects...in some cases, I assume that the squeal could change (or disappear) just by moving the MP-1 to another place.
A filter like that should manage a good range of high radio frequencies, by the way.

I should take my MP-1 to another place, to be sure about that...but I'm happy enough with that buffer, so far!  :lol: :lol: :lol:

« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
Logged
On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Rocktron Intellifex->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1990 Frudua GFK Carved Pro-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2006 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Joy-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

herbyguitar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #145 on: Time Format »

I haven't sent my MP1 to MJMP yet. I checked the cost of freight a couple of month ago and it was $80.00 one way. Meanwhile I got hammered by taxes and work slowed way down so another hindrance. Now with this new development I'm going to have to rethink sending it off. It's been in a box all packed up for a few months now...

I'm going to have to unpack it and try this fix   :thumb-up:
Logged
Jack of all trades. Master of none.
Gear List: Hell, it changes too fast to keep up with.

Iperfungus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
  • Methodical killers do good jobs!
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #146 on: Time Format »

I haven't sent my MP1 to MJMP yet. I checked the cost of freight a couple of month ago and it was $80.00 one way. Meanwhile I got hammered by taxes and work slowed way down so another hindrance. Now with this new development I'm going to have to rethink sending it off. It's been in a box all packed up for a few months now...

I'm going to have to unpack it and try this fix   :thumb-up:

Yep!
It would be interesting to see if a buffer or a filter will help with your MP-1 as well.
I'm curious to hear from MikeB as well, as soon as he will read and find some time to do an attempt.

A Boss DS-1 is very easy to find used and not expensive at all. :lol:
Logged
On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Rocktron Intellifex->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1990 Frudua GFK Carved Pro-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2006 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Joy-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

MikeB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 246
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #147 on: Time Format »

Hi. Very interesting. I'll have a go. May not happen this week. Very busy.
Thanks for revisiting this.
Logged
I don't feel tardy!

Iperfungus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
  • Methodical killers do good jobs!
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #148 on: Time Format »

Hi. Very interesting. I'll have a go. May not happen this week. Very busy.
Thanks for revisiting this.

When you've time, Mike. We're not in a hurry.  :lol:

I've done more testing with other pedals in front and when a buffer is there, the squeal is out: just 100% pure SS Ultra+ MP-1's unique tone.
Ricky downloaded MP-1 schematics and he's doing some calculation to see if there's a particular resistor's value that can fine tune the "low pass filter". But, to be honest, if just a buffer can solve this issue, I'm not sure if we need something more.

Then, it will be interesting to see what MJMP thinks about this and directions this investigation will take.
Seen from my side, now it looks the issue is not from MP-1's inside but coming from the outside (this is the reason why I do not want to change a thing inside my MP-1 now).

Just a question about MDRT, because I don't remember: 190V is the voltage MDRT applies to tubes or is it the voltage from the original transformer? In the last case, what's the voltage from MDRT?
As far as I remember, the main reason to use a MDRT is the higher voltage sent to tubes and the increased dynamic range, with less compression and a more open sound (and this is what my ears can confirm).
Can this make tubes more sensitive and amplify noise or radio frequencies coming from the outside through guitar cable?
Is there any way to add a mod to MP-1's input stage, if this would be the reason for the squeal? A filter? A buffer? Is there any of those circuits inside MP-1?
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
Logged
On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Rocktron Intellifex->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1990 Frudua GFK Carved Pro-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2006 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Joy-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

Iperfungus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 638
  • Methodical killers do good jobs!
Re: Herby's attemt @ SS Mod, Noise Mod, MDRT Mod
« Reply #149 on: Time Format »

Ok, found the answer to my question about MDRT:

"The MDRT is a 24VA transformer which can deliver 12.6V to the heaters.The high voltage has gone up to 240Vdc / 8mA.
The original is only a 12VA transformer,only deliver between 8 and 9 V to the heaters and the high voltage is 190Vdc / 4mA.
So the MDRT will enhance the sound,better low end,less noise and the sound will sound less compressed."

And yes...this is how it works!

Note: seriously consider to use a Boss DS-1 as a buffer in front of a Ultra+ MP-1. Compared to other "more transparent" buffers, it adds a slight smoothness to overall sound that's absolutely lovely. It's something very light...but I can get the "no compression" MDRT tone with a bit of original MP-1's "creamy" smoothness I loved a lot before mods.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
Logged
On the run again!

Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

Marshall JMP1->Alesis Quadraverb GT->Rocktron Intellifex->Advance Tube Technologies TA '70 tube power amp

Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1990 Frudua GFK Carved Pro-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2006 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Joy-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11   Go Up