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Author Topic: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery  (Read 13870 times)

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Dante

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Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« on: Time Format »

I love when people don't give something a chance because it doesn't have a high priced brand name on it. For example, I play mid-range guitars most of the time, almost exclusively Ibanez, because I can get them for cheap and the necks play like butter. What cracks me up is people comment on my tone as if it's the guitar that is responsible for it "you sure got some nice tones outta that guitar" never giving the rack gear credit.

Another example was when I bought my H&K cabinet from a "boogie" guy. Here's how it went:

He says, "I'm kind of a Boogie purist, nothing else will do". He had a nice Mark V head, and a Lonestar combo in his living room.

I went on to explain that I have a DC-5, so I know what you're talking about, but I can easily get those tones out of my old ADA preamp.

He looked at me like I was lying or crazy, or both. Totally skeptical.

So, I plugged my rack into the H&K cab and pulled up my "metal" patch (super scooped mids). I could tell right away he was surprised by the way he came around the front of the rig to get a better look, but he was trying really hard not to let on.

He asked if I had modified the preamp. Nope.

He asked how many tubes were in there. Two, I said.

What about the power amp? It's got a couple 12ax7s in it, but it's kind of a hybrid power amp (MT-200).

He says...well, it sounds good, but I'll keep my Boogies.

Good for you, I said. (knowing that I have a Boogie, a Fender, and a hot rodded Marshall in my rack at the push of a button) Thanks for the cabinet, have a nice day.

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Iperfungus

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

I know a lot of worst people.

I spent so much time discussing about obvious things and I've lost so much time whit some idiots that, at the end, I gave up.
Keep up your bullshit and leave me alone.

There is people who's absolutely convinced that wax potting a pickup will make it sound different.  :facepalm:
Some others are sure the tailpiece's studs made of steel instead of any other metal alloy can actually change the overall tone of a Les Paul.  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
When you try to explain why this is total bullshit from electrical, electromagnetic and physical points of view, they answer "ok, but my ears tell me something different".
The problem are not your ears but what should be among them and that's missing: a brain.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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rnolan

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Hey Max, come on, wax potting a PU will make it sound different, it will be a heap less microphonic and not make crazy horrible noises as much LoL.  I do take your point though.
@RG you've done a bit of the potting thing, what do you recon ? IIRC from some of your (very old) posts it's a bit of an art.

Brass tail piece and studs will give a bit more sustain, although the string break angle over the saddles (and nut) (supported by good physics  :thumb-up: ) makes the most difference.

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Rawk777

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

I have an Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus that have a pair of Gibson USA '57 Classic in iit. This guitar had a lot of feedback issues, even at low volume. Really unpleasant feedback issues. Since I wax potted it, it plays like a charm. Did the tone change after wax potting it? Maybe... it's a bit less bright, it's hard to say, but now it's playable :p
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Dante

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Some others are sure the tailpiece's studs made of steel instead of any other metal alloy can actually change the overall tone of a Les Paul.  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
When you try to explain why this is total bullshit from electrical, electromagnetic and physical points of view, they answer "ok, but my ears tell me something different".
The problem are not your ears but what should be among them and that's missing: a brain.

This is pretty funny, thanks  :lol:

FWIW, I have several guitars with chrome hardware and a matching one with brass. I can tell no difference. If one of those bridges is made of crappy pot metal, of course a brass one would sound better. Just from a sustain perspective. 
« Last Edit: Time Format by Dante »
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Iperfungus

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't get me wrong, guys.
I had my personal experience with pickups wax potting.
I owned a couple of MIJ Fernandes/Burny Les Pauls from the '80s, one of them with original VH-1 pickups.
Those guitars were awesome and VH-1 pickups are more than decent ones, good old LP tones...but they're not wax potted.
I've always been a sort of "good amount of gain" guy...I love hard rock, metal, heavy stuff...last band I played with was a Kiss tribute band...so I think you can figure out the sounds I like more.
Well...with VH-1 pickups I had those tones but also a lot of noise and feedback, so I made them wax potted.
Every feedback issue was fixed and the pickups tone was 100% untouched...and I know that because I could compare the situation before and after wax potting.  :banana:

With studs is the same...they can modify something about sustain, maybe...but your guitar's overall tone would remain the same.
I've owned 4-5 LPs in the past years (including a Custom Shop Goldtop '54 Reissue with P-90s) and I was used to change everything but wood...  :lol:
I used alu tailpieces, steel studs, wraparounds and stuff so on...Today I'm not sure anymore this could change things so much that it worth the price you pay to aftermarket.
I own a Standard 2013 Gibson SG with '57 pickups (very good Gibson pickups! Factory wax potted, as far as I know. The best to me!) where I didn't change a screw...when I bought her, I compared with a Custom Shop Reissue SG with Custombuckers, alu tailpiece and ABR-1 bridge...Custombuckers where just more midrangy and I loved '57s more...after that, the guitar is an SG...
What Gibson seems not able anymore to do is a good f**king NUT.
They use corian everywhere and that makes more difference: I swapped original nut wit a TUSQ with correct strings spacing and this fixed some tuning and tone issues (higher strings where a little weak).
And no more wraparound: just lifted the tailpiece a litte to get correct strings angle...
That guitar KILLS! 100% Angus tone.   :metal:

Now I'm going to receive a very kind gift from a friend: a 199x Studio Les Paul.
That guitar was owned by her father who passed away last December and she wants me to keep that guitar.
I will and I will not modify anything there: I bet that Les Paul will have perfect tones!


By the way, as I wrote, I'm outside this kind of discussion since many years and I do not want to start again here.
What I want to point out is that's a matter of approach: if someone has something to suggest you, give him/her a chance...and power off what your ears keep repeating.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've a very good friend...we're friends since very long time now (more than 25 years for sure) and he's a very talented guitar player and a very good guy.
Is also a GAS guy as we are...but, coming to such arguments, he's more like "I don't understand about physics or electronic, but my ears..."......... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.................. :nono: :nono: :nono:
One of these days, I will cut his ears off!  :wave:

 :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

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Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
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Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

Dante

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

+1 on Burney guitars  :thumb-up:  If you find one, or an Orville, get it, you won't be disappointed.

Also, Gibson is not exclusive in using crappy nut material. I have replaced all of mine with TUSQ nuts (except for the brass nut, of course).
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Iperfungus

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

+1 on Burney guitars  :thumb-up:  If you find one, or an Orville, get it, you won't be disappointed.

Also, Gibson is not exclusive in using crappy nut material. I have replaced all of mine with TUSQ nuts (except for the brass nut, of course).

Amen, mate.  :bow:

MIJ guitars are still awesome instruments.
Greco, Aria, Yamaha, Fernandes, Tokai, Orville or first Epiphone, old Squiers...all the Fuji-Gen made guitars worth a try.

About TUSQ...it's the best material to build perfect nuts!  :thumb-up:
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Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

rnolan

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hey Max, I put Gibson 57 re-issues in my epiphone SG, I love them, great PUs.  I liked the epiphone PUs but they were a bit microphonic.  I tried the standard swap of SD JB Bridge and SD Alnico neck, they were ok, but nothing special, didn't float my boat.  Then went for the 57s  :whoohoo!: . expensive here though $300 AUD a piece..  My custom shop (2006) JPLP has a 59 PAF in the neck (nice PU mmmm), and a jimmy page burst bucker in the bridge (it's ok, I'd rather a 57 but do I modify such a collectable  :dunno: ).

When you get the LP pls post pics  :thumb-up: , nice gift (and IMHO to the right person , someone who will play and cherish it).
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rabidgerry

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hey RN, yeah I have wax potted pickups.  Now I honestly cannot say I noticed much difference tonally, but of course it made a difference in regards to microphonics.

I've potted and repotted pickups.

In regards to the original subject of lesser branded equipment/intruments.  Well I'm an example of someone who truly doesn't believe a £1500 guitar is going to be better than a £250 guitar with some upgrades.  The difference in price certainly does not justify the difference (if any) sound differences.

All my guitars (well a lot) are Squiers.  And even better than that they were all second hand so even cheaper again.  I know these guitars are good quality and I know a few upgrades later puts them in an even better category.

Something crazy I have even found though is that some of the steel upgrades I have made to my guitars have not always been better sonically.  And I decided with one guitar I own (yes the pink one) to leave it with it's original small sustain block.  Why?  Because it sounds just the way I want it and the change it has made to some of my other guitars I'm not sure I actually want to happen with this guitar so there ya go!!  Uprgrades might not actually make your guitar better either.


PS had my hands on a Godin strat the other week.  Fixing a pot on it for a friend.  As far as I know it cost more than some of my axes, yet it felt (to me anyways), like a cheapo piece of crap.  My Chinese, and Korean guitars felt a lot more solid and durable and just dam right better quality.
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Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

Iperfungus

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Hey RN, yeah I have wax potted pickups.  Now I honestly cannot say I noticed much difference tonally, but of course it made a difference in regards to microphonics.

I've potted and repotted pickups.

In regards to the original subject of lesser branded equipment/intruments.  Well I'm an example of someone who truly doesn't believe a £1500 guitar is going to be better than a £250 guitar with some upgrades.  The difference in price certainly does not justify the difference (if any) sound differences.

All my guitars (well a lot) are Squiers.  And even better than that they were all second hand so even cheaper again.  I know these guitars are good quality and I know a few upgrades later puts them in an even better category.

Something crazy I have even found though is that some of the steel upgrades I have made to my guitars have not always been better sonically.  And I decided with one guitar I own (yes the pink one) to leave it with it's original small sustain block.  Why?  Because it sounds just the way I want it and the change it has made to some of my other guitars I'm not sure I actually want to happen with this guitar so there ya go!!  Uprgrades might not actually make your guitar better either.


PS had my hands on a Godin strat the other week.  Fixing a pot on it for a friend.  As far as I know it cost more than some of my axes, yet it felt (to me anyways), like a cheapo piece of crap.  My Chinese, and Korean guitars felt a lot more solid and durable and just dam right better quality.

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

I've a chinese Modern Player Strat that makes a good job.
I love that guitar.
With stock pickups and electronic, is very good (I suspect PUs are non branded Tonerider stuff....).
I did an upgrade with some PUs I bought from StewMac (not expensive stuff) and the guitar overall tone improved.
Great neck and fingerboard.
A very good Strat with more quality than many MIM Strats sold at a double price.

I own different guitars...one of them is an over the top 1987 PRS Custom, 100% original (the only valuable guitar I own, even if I love them all!)....so I can do comparison among different instruments and I agree with you.

About '57 Classic pickups...I remembered right, they are wax potted already:

http://store.gibson.com/57-classic-pickup/

Maybe early 2-wires models were not?  :dunno:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

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Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

rabidgerry

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

I do upgrade my pickups also, mostly because I do not get the balls and guts I need from the standard pups that come supplied with the likes of my Squiers.  If I played country music or something else, I'd probably have stuck with the stock pups.

Also I generally use a Dimarzio Super D also because that is an element to my sound that I want to here specifically (even anyone can actually tell.....and they probably cannot).

I seem to recall another thread on guitars on here where I perhaps ranted a little about big brand axes and gear and how I wasn't so crazy about the price justification etc etc and somebody took exception to it and called my attitude bad lol and tried to make an example of me   :facepalm:
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Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

(and somebody took exception to it and called my attitude bad lol and tried to make an example of me)
Well I hope that wasn't me  :facepalm: , I have a bunch of "enhanced" cheaper guitars. But I would say buying the JPLP and then the Alembic SC Brown bass though reignited in me the difference between (some) very expensive instruments and others.
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Iperfungus

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

(and somebody took exception to it and called my attitude bad lol and tried to make an example of me)
Well I hope that wasn't me  :facepalm: , I have a bunch of "enhanced" cheaper guitars. But I would say buying the JPLP and then the Alembic SC Brown bass though reignited in me the difference between (some) very expensive instruments and others.

Yes, I agree...but sometimes a good setup, made as it should be done, could make more miracles than 1500-2000 dollars.  :green-banana-smiley-emoticon:
« Last Edit: Time Format by Iperfungus »
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Rack stuff from Hell:

ADA MP-1 (modified by MJMP)->TC Electronic G Major->Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp

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Zoom 9150->Marshall Valvestate 8004 power amp
Zoom 8050 MIDI Controller
Zoom FP01 Expression pedal

Behringer FCB1010 MIDI controller

Blackstar HTV 212 stereo cabinet with 70/80 Celestion speakers

Amps:

Rivera Pubster 25
Blackstar Fly 3 amp + external speaker

Stomps, stomps, stomps...and stomps (Bogner rules!):

TC Helix phaser, Xotic RC Booster, TC Sentry noise gate, Bogner Ecstasy Blue, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Mad Professor Royal Blue Overdrive, Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Flashback delay

Guitars:

2018 Arrogantia Pandora Vendetta 24 HH Trem-1987 PRS Custom-1988 Fender Strat Plus-2016 Custom assembled Fender Strat-2013 Gibson SG Standard-1995 Gibson Les Paul Studio-1991 MIJ Ibanez RG570FM TB-2016 MIJ Ibanez RG655M SPM-2002 Bruno Traverso Custom "Tommy" Silky-2017 Kramer Baretta Special-2010 Simon & Patrick Woodland CW acoustic

rnolan

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Re: Story time: Brand Name Snobbery
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

Absolutely  :thumb-up:
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