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Author Topic: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016  (Read 3870 times)

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Kim

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Ran across this interesting interview.  See what's in the rack in the background of the cover pic?  He brings up a few real good points, and perhaps even one controversial one.  I also didn't realize the Lake Geneva, WI connection either....that's like an hour or so drive from me! :o
Michael Wagener 2016
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Is it an MP-1 I see there  ;D

Great interview. :thumb-up:
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Interesting interview Kim,

   I have seen another interview with Micheal where he raves about the Kemper Profiler. He's hung up on those things and for that reason, I don't believe he and I would see eye to eye. He is a purist when it comes to recording drums, and does it the old fashioned way, with microphones, but now he insists on recording guitars direct with the Kemper, with the occaissional punch-in.
  Maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways, but I am a firm believer that the electric guitar is three components basically; Guitar>Amp>Speakers. If you take away any one of those three things, you are missing a part of the instrument.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Good article.  I was surprised about the Kemper also.  Perhaps a little disappointed actually that he uses it.

I know I use speaker impulses which is similar to amp profiling, but this is more so to do with convenience and practicality for me.  It sounds good yes, but I think if I had all the shit Wagener had and a studio I'd probably stick with the old fashioned way.  In fact I know I would  :thumb-up:

Thought it was interesting he had been using digital tape since like 1981!  That was an incredible revelation.

I have not heard the album of which he name drops the band often within this interview, but I bet it does not sound like an 80's record at all!  It probably has 80's signatures on it, but I'm almost sure it will not sound like one of my beloved albums from the 80's that I whorship so dearly.  I've heard modern take on the 80's records before.....................never enough reverb and still stuck through mastering limiter and blasted to bits until the wav files are square as the twin towers used to be!
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

I have to agree with Gerry here.

 Modern takes on the 80's music really falls short of the mark IMHO. Although there is one point which I would change about it on many of the 80's albums, and that is the reverb. I used to think back then, and still do in the case of many albums, that there was an excess of processing used in the production. While some artists benefit from a bit more reverb, others gad too much which I think took some of the gonads away from their music.

  That's just my opinion though
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rabidgerry

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Well I like a lot of the stuff from back then, some dripping with processing and some not so much.

I like reverb as I like the impression it can give of dimensional quality.  I drop stuff in like this on my own recording and I'm sure people do frown and think "disgustingly 80's", but that's what I like and think is best.  If I am honest though I'm still not where I want to be hence only using some stuff minimal, it's difficult to manage lots of reverb as it can sound like to much, wash stuff out, or else sound unrelated to other elements in the song.  It's taken me a long time to get tom where I am even right now!

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

    Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stuff which I hear reverbs used creatively, and it really sounds good. It enhances a song, which is what effects are for. There is a song from Rush, on one of their earlier albums, I can't remember the song or album right now, but I remember the way the reverb was used vividly. The song begins with the volume swelling gradually, and there is a rich reverb effect on the whole band, the depth and mix is very wet, then as the volume builds, the depth and mix of the reverb effect is cut back until the music reaches it's performance level, and the effect is completely gone by then.
 This gives the listener the impression that the band is approaching from a great distance until it's right in your face.

   I agree with you on the point of different reverbs, it is difficult. This brings up another band from the 80's to my mind, Bon Jovi. I'm not exactly sure, but the overall sound of their recordings is WAY over processed, and I think it's too many different reverbs clashing against each other. I could be wrong, or there could be even more on top of that. If you listen to "Bad Medicine" it's a great tune, but it sounds like it surrealistic, very unnatural. I could put on a Skid Row album after that and that band sounds more like a live band than Bon Jovi did.

   Micheal Wagener also did Extreme's first two albums, and even though the reverb is very up front in those albums, it didn't take anything away from the band's performance.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Another great album was Whitesnake 's 1987 album, great songs but way too much processing.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

I guess I agree with ya Harley, but then I might offer up some examples that you think are too processed also.

Here are tWO examples of very 80's heavy metal production - if you do not like the music or band try and think of the production objectively  :) to me this is pure f**king genius and I love how it sounds, I wouldn't want to hear the songs any other way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=206m_H8GzmY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtu20Ejv3SI

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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

    Actually, I like Priest, and I agree there is a lot of processing in those two examples, but I don't feel it's over processed. It's actually very tastefully done IMHO, and here is why I think so:

     I can hear the guitars are heavily chorused, but the effect is on the guitar amps, not on the tracks. Now here is something I learned in a studio back in the 80's, when using a thick, or heavy chorus effect to essentially double the sound it's added to, there are two ways to do it. One way is time shift modulation, the other is pitch shift modulation. If you want to combine Chorus and Reverb without it getting muddy, then the best way is to use pitch shift modulation for the Chorus, because Reverb involves time shifting. This way, the time shifts do not clash with each other.
    This is also true when two guitars are chorused. I believe I am hearing this on the 1st link. The guitars are heavily Chorused with no Reverb, but both are very distinct. I hear the Reverb applied to the Vocals, and to the Drums. The Vocals have a Hall Reverb while the Drums have a rich Plate Reverb that is placed after the Compression and EQ effects, and I believe I am picking up a very short Delay on the Snare Drum, almost inaudible.
   In all, I believe this is how you can use heavy processing, yet still keep it sounding like a live band, just with an enhanced sound.


@MJMP, Yes, there is a lot of processing on that album, but like the above, it's not so much that it works against the band. It actually makes the band sound more exciting.

    Just my humble opinion according to my personal tastes.
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rnolan

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

Wow, 2 totally different mixes, and go Harley picking all those nuances out  :thumb-up: , I didn't feel either were over processed (for me).  My take, the midrage layers (guitars and vox) where better on the first link but the drums were buried and I couldn't hear them enough. Sonically the 2nd link mix was much better, more open, less compressed and you can hear the drums  :thumb-up: , but the first mix really worked in the mids (had a nice homely feel, warm IYGWIMean).

Another aspect worth considering with Fx are the del/rev times (and this is along the lines of what Harley was saying), delay times, reverb times etc are important to get right and preferably (in the studio context) as a ratio/related to the song speed (beets per min/millisecons).  You have to make the same holes in the music (what you don't play is more important than what you do..) the spaces are paramount and you don't want to swamp them with Fx set to the wrong del/rev times. So really, when you run up Fx for a song on your guit rig, you should make variations for each song speed to get the holes right. And thus sound really tight. Now in the studio, there is no real excuse for not doing this.  Live, well that is what it is, I go for an average but still concentrate on only playing what I should, (watch out for slurpy slurpy) when I should.
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

@Harley, the 1987 album had one of the best guitar tones of the day, and they sound good without much processing, but for me the drums and vocals have too much reverb on them.But for the rest one hell of an album.

As for Judas Priest, for me personally I find Screaming for vengeance and British Steel soundwise the best albums. I'm more fund of raw sounds, like it would be live or in a rehearsal room.

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rabidgerry

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

Good glad no one thought those songs (4 years apart btw) where over compressed.  Because for me they sound awesome.  I know what Richard means about the drums being a little buried on the first track (free wheel burning) but hell it's hardly ruined.

I can't say I like two eras like MJMP of this band as I love everything to much, but I do have a slight favour for the juicier more processed records.  I also like that thy managed to replicate it on tour as opposed to having the nice processed records and then turned up to arena concerts sounding like a garage band!  No, no, not Priest, the replicated to a great degree the extra polish and juicey modulated sounds.

MJMP Screaming for Vengeance has lot's of polish on there, Point of Entry is a little more "band in a room sound" part from "Desert plains" and "Solar Angels"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vny2TR8NNPk  This is defo more a band in a room

than this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUCRFMZ-hiY

Anyways, I'm glad there was some love for this processed stuff as it's something I want to explore at some point when I'm good enough to get it to work.

@Harley I shall send you a little something and see what you think.  Probably hate it lol  :facepalm:

PS Happy new year everyone
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

Well G you're right about this, and point of entry sounds a bit like british steel IMO.
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Harley Hexxe

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Re: Michael Wagener interview/Reverb 2016
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

Hey Gerry,

   I can see why you feel that the 1st example is more of a "band in the room" kind of thing, and that's because the vocals are buried in the mix. They should have been more to the front. Just imagine the song with the voice out in front, and that would change everything.
   I'm very familiar with the 2nd example, as I used to play that song many years ago. The vocals are more up front in that song, but there is a modulation effect on the voice too, and I think it's a Phasing effect but I can't be sure. It's there because of the lyrics he's singing, and meant to enhance the point he's driving home. "I'm electric in an electric sky, I'm electric, the electric eye."
   It's an old studio trick made famous by Joe Walsh. Joe never liked his singing voice so he put a Phaser on his vocal tracks and it took off. Think "Rocky Mountain Way."

@ MJMP,
    Yes, I agree that the vocals and drums had a lot of reverb to them. If you recall back in the day, that was something that was getting quite popular to do. The excessive reverb on the drums was to make them sound more cavernous and booming, and delay on the snare drum was also becoming more commonplace, but many drummers were having difficulty with that because when the the echoes were coming back through their headphone mix, it would throw a lot of them off :lol:
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