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Temp "Time Format" issue Fix in Discussions

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Author Topic: Cabinet Simulators  (Read 50570 times)

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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #90 on: Time Format »

I would only use a mic and a cab if I had a studio to begin with, and a controlled enviroment in which I could record perfectly and a slave to move the mic about for me.

I'm not going to get into which is better quality because it will turn out like the tape vs digital arguement.  But all I can say is I'm not sure if I had both in front of me what I would choose.  It would be a toss up between manually moving a mic and recording vs the twist of one knob to get any speaker with any mic in any position I wanted.

And for the record I'm not saying anyones way is the right or wrong way.  All I'm saying is I think using an impulse is the method I prefer because it sounds amazing and it's ridiculously conveniant and I see no reason to ever return to trying to records using a mic on a guitar cab.

For live recordings, I mic up my live rig.  This is entirely different approach and style of recording I aim for when I do this.  I would probably not record for our album using my actual cabs. Might do if I had a studio, but I never will have a studio, well not a proper one.  I have a room in my house I call a studio, the EPSI goes well in this room  :thumb-up:
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #91 on: Time Format »

Totally understand  :thumb-up: I like to make the impulses for you to use, I've never had a chance to try them but they seem a very good idea.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #92 on: Time Format »

It's actually an amazing thing, I mean send a sine wav through a rig and get its "Flavour"?

f**king hell yeah!

If you ever do make an impulse for me I'll try it and let you hear what I sound like going through it.

I have nearly considered making my own, I will get round to it some time.  I have the software for it.

I'm not finished getting speakers for my cabs though.  They are so expensive it's taking me a while to afford another two Eminence CV-75's.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #93 on: Time Format »

Can you send me the software for it ?, I could do MP2 for you.
I know what you mean re speakers, I reconed 2 blown up EV 15s a few years ago, $400 each Ouch, apparently I got the last 2 recone kits in Aus (and postage kills you on speakers as they weigh so much).
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #94 on: Time Format »

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

El Chiguete

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #95 on: Time Format »

If I could use a IR to add my poweramp, my speakers and my mic "flavor" then I would have no problem to go out the PA System with just my preamp and effects rig.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #96 on: Time Format »

If I could use a IR to add my poweramp, my speakers and my mic "flavor" then I would have no problem to go out the PA System with just my preamp and effects rig.

You could El  :thumb-up:  if you have the capability try it.

I think I have now be inspired to try and make one myself.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #97 on: Time Format »

I think it's very difficult to capture a "sound".Don't forget you just taking 1 point.Amps speakers and mics are usually not linear so you will be missing like 100 other points.It will sound different at lower and higher volumes,it will sound different when you play with a lot of dynamics etc....

I've been playing around with a lot of plugins lately,my last one was positive grid.Now it sounds not bad when you're playing around with it but if i go back to my "real" rig then it's WTF,the real deal sounds a lot better every time.It's nice for recording maybe since you will do a lot of processing but live i would never use it.My 2 cents.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #98 on: Time Format »

I think it's very difficult to capture a "sound".Don't forget you just taking 1 point.Amps speakers and mics are usually not linear so you will be missing like 100 other points.It will sound different at lower and higher volumes,it will sound different when you play with a lot of dynamics etc....

I've been playing around with a lot of plugins lately,my last one was positive grid.Now it sounds not bad when you're playing around with it but if i go back to my "real" rig then it's WTF,the real deal sounds a lot better every time.It's nice for recording maybe since you will do a lot of processing but live i would never use it.My 2 cents.

It doesn't seem that hard from what I have read.  I'll give it a go and let you know.  Are going to try it Richard?  I imagine if you are only after the speaker sim in your MP2 then you will need to send a sign WAV through the input with all other effects off, and basically only the speaker sim engaged.

I can't comment on your experiences MJ but I find the sounds I have with my IR device sound great with nothing done to them.  Best sounds I have ever got.  The processing I used while making the bands single for example was minimal and was purely to get it to fit in the mix.  I used IR's on that project.  But is this not a normal thing to do?  It seems to be otherwise all the information I have read about mixing music is wrong.  So for example I stripped a lot of lo end off and hi end with Hi and Lo pass filters.  Had I recorded my speakers for real I'd have done the same thing.  In fact I may have done more to the real mic and speakers recording because I can't adjust as easily as I can with speaker IR where I can surf through hundreds of speakers and mic positions if I want to.

Yes I can see that if you made a speaker impulse you would get different results at different volumes.  Not sure I understand what you mean about the 1 point but missing 100 other points.

The way I see it is, set the volume to a volume you normally play at, send the sine wav through your rig exactly as it is when you normally play and record.  Make a few recordings with the mic moved and a few other variations if you want to and then create the IR's.  If the commercial IR's I use only take 1 point then I'm very happy with those one point IR's.  End of the day it sounds like I'm playing through speakers to me and that's all I want to hear.

I'll record my live rig at my normal at the weekend and see if my results equal my impulses.  Live righ sounding good these days but I think the IR's sound more "pro".  I use these mic's ES-57 on the guitar cabs http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/product/37-206.html

and before anyone thinks "he's using a cheapo rip off SM57" do your research on the mic.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #99 on: Time Format »

Well different points i mean a mic or cab will sound different at different volume levels.Even if you put the wave through it at your usual level there will be no dynamics involved since it's a freq sweep at the same level.Pff hard to explain what i mean i guess.Hope you understand. :facepalm:
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #100 on: Time Format »

sort off understand.  How do they make commercial impulses then do you know?

Essentially I view cab sim speaker sim as a filter, to filter out crap and shape the sound to my pallete.

Will still post some of my real speakers sound after I rehearse on Saturday just for the hell off it.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #101 on: Time Format »

I think they use different points since with two notes you can move the mic around so you get different sounds.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #102 on: Time Format »

Move the mic around?  Sounds like an algorithym in what ever software it if you're using to me as opposed to one impulse that contains various points, I'm pretty sure impulses are made up of single points as opposed to multiple and that works fine from my experience as no one moves my mic about at gigs.

If I want a different mic sound I pic say the IR of celestion GT75 - sm75 centre 2 inches from grill or pic celestion GT75 - sm75 centre 3 inches

I don't have impulses made up of multiples impulses, this seems like an odd concept to me.  I'm pretty sure it's impossible actually unless you brough IR's into a daw and over lapped them but I have no idea why you would do this.  I know red wirez impulses are all individual impulses and any other IR i have used is the same, they contain one set of information for what the tone will be like at that moment.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Koch ATR4502 - Peavey Classic 50/50
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"
Midi Controller: Behringer FCB1010

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #103 on: Time Format »

Could be,i actually don't know how they do it.
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rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #104 on: Time Format »

Well MJMP that's probably the important aspect... how do/are the IRs made. It's a form of sampling basically (has to be), so you feed a sine wave through a rig and create some sample designed such that it can be used (how is it interpreted ?). RG MJMP raises very salient points, At the sampling end of town, one point isn't usually enough, (ie one sound one vol etc) there are just so many variables (with "real" sound). Hey I'm not saying using IR's is wrong.. Just trying to get my head around it to help those that want to do this (and happy to help BTW), I don't particularly want to do this (for me), I definitely prefer to just make the real sounds, but hey that's my way... as you all know I'm very old school.
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Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
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