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Author Topic: Cabinet Simulators  (Read 42812 times)

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MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #75 on: Time Format »

Well i'm looking for a plugin cab sim,Two notes has it and also redwirez.Any comments which i should get?
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El Chiguete

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #76 on: Time Format »

Radbidgerry correct me if Im wrong but to answer the question of Marshall I would say this:

- Two Notes ($495): lets you use use multiple IRs at the same time and lets you have a bit more manipulation on your overal sound (poweramp simulation, etc)

- ESPi ($125 + $9 per IR or $125 for 49 IRs + $49 for pluggin software): one IR at a time and fix options to customize your sound... Question: do you use this software to mix multiple mics settings in to one IR and use it in the ESPi unit?

Pros:
If this is true maybe the ESPi is well worth but not sure how you combine the options of speaker/cab, mic, position, etc in to one IR that you save in the memory card.

Cons:
The ONLY thing that the Two Notes makes a real difference to me over the ESPi is that it has MIDI connection so you can change your cab simulations with different patches of your rig connections.

Wishlist:
I would just preffer if the ESPi  had a built in memory so you coulds store IRs straight in to it and use the memory card just to add aditional ones or be a quick way to test IRs of other people.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #77 on: Time Format »

El it can take home made impulses.  They just have to be the correct format.  I think 44.1khz sample rate and 24bit is the maximum.  You can make your own impulses if you have the software etc and ability to send a sine wav through your rig etc.

Radbidgerry correct me if Im wrong but to answer the question of Marshall I would say this:

- Two Notes ($495): lets you use use multiple IRs at the same time and lets you have a bit more manipulation on your overal sound (poweramp simulation, etc)

- ESPi ($125 + $9 per IR or $125 for 49 IRs + $49 for pluggin software): one IR at a time and fix options to customize your sound... Question: do you use this software to mix multiple mics settings in to one IR and use it in the ESPi unit?

How do I answer this?

First of all let me address the two notes.  Personally I have no need for the extra functionality it has and sure that makes it great but honestly simplicity of the EPSI for me is the winner.  So everytime I will save myself some money and buy an EPSI if I was starting from scratch.  I don't actually know why I would want two impulses at a time, I would record one, then record another if I wanted to hear two types together.  May be I'm old fashioned but one take and one sound at a time is best for me.  It never seems to work out trying to get more than one sound that blends perfectly at the same time.  I believe mixing should be done elsewhere and good old trial and error to find out what make the best combos is the most effective way.  Sure I could make an IR that combined two good impulses that sounded great together, but I would rather record one take using one IR, then another take using the other IR, sounds best for me.

Ok to actual question El, I have made my own impulses? actually sorry I'll say that correctly, spliced my own impulses together using two different kinds of IR in a DAW programme such as one with the mic in one place one with the mic type different and different distance etc.  Yes I have and it worked fine after a bit of jigging about.

However, I quit all this f**king about because I realised it's nit picking and you spend hours and hours wasting time doing all this stuff and forget about playing and recording the actual songs properly.  It's two distracting.  The red wirez suite I got (I'll not say how I got it........for free) has so many options it's just insane.  I never got through probably 2/3rds of the impulses as there is so many.

For me I found a few I liked and stuck with them.  I use it like I use my live rig, so the same few cabs over and over, not constantly changing shit around.

If you want more distracting options to sit and pay with for hours on end go with the Two notes.
If you want to turn your rig on, and go through a selected IR - hit record - get a good take - then move onto the next take - and may be use a different impulse so as you can mix later in DAW, then EPSI is what you want.

EPSI has an EQ on it to adjust the IR's futher which is useful and you know what?  It's pointless if you have a billions IR's to choose from like in RedWirez, because you can just pick a different impulse with the mic a little close or further away or in different position.  Why bother with the extra EQing when you could twist the dial and be on a new different umpulse in a matter of seconds?

Ok I'll will admit the biggest con for the EPSI is not display that tells you what impulse you are on!!!!!!

You know what?  I can live without that, why?  Because I just flick through and use my ears until I get the right one.  I basically use the EPSI as a substitute for my FX units onboard speaker sims.  I very rarely adjust it now I've found IR's I like.  I should really delete off those I don't use so I can flick to the ones I like a lot quicker.


It's depends on what you want to do with your time, spend hours messing about, or plug in, pick an impulse you like and play and hit record!!!

Epsi is also awesome to play live without cabs!  I nearly thought about taking it on tour with me!  As it's just a little pedal! 

But I confess, nothing like a wall of cabs behind you making your intestines shake!!!!!     :metal:  However if I was pushed I would take it on tour.


PLEASE NOTE: I have the redwirez.  If you guys need it...........................PM me  :thumb-up:
« Last Edit: Time Format by rabidgerry »
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

El Chiguete

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #78 on: Time Format »

I don't actually know why I would want two impulses at a time, I would record one, then record another if I wanted to hear two types together.  May be I'm old fashioned but one take and one sound at a time is best for me.

Well all I'm saying is that some people use different mics on a recording (either by recording at the same time or at diferent times) and if you did that on the recording maybe you want to recreat it live too... so that would be the reason why I would see the use of two types together. Also the beauty of saving stuff in to presets is that once you set it up correctly you just have to open that preset and you will have the sound you wanted. Anyway its not for everyone but some people might use it.

For me I don't really need the screen to see what I'm using since probably I would only use a couple of different ones and that I could easily remember what number they are on. What bothers me more is that there isnt a MIDI conection to have let you change those sounds at the same time you change your entire presets of you rig in a LIVE situation.

Still I would probably use one if I was doing home recordings or playing live more often.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #79 on: Time Format »

Oh I get what you mean for sure  :thumb-up:, I just wouldn't do that.  I prefer the layering approach.  I have not had much success to be honest mixing and matching different IRs to sound like two different speakers or mics or mic postions and I don't have the time to sit and play about with the stuff for ever.  Songs don't write themselves  :facepalm:.

Well if you where to use it live and you really needed to switch cabs sims the absence of midi I guess would be a bummer.  But then I don't think in the live world it is common for anyone to do this either with actual cabs so it's no loss to me.  The flexibility of having it at the end of your chain and hooking up to the desk at a gig is still very much real.  I'm sure some person somewhere likes to switch cabs mid set but for the vast majority of people one cab and one mic position per show usually is the case.

I only use mine for recording so I don't really think of it's live potential, it just sets there, ready to go, no hassles no fuss, turn it on and away I go.  For the price compared to the Two Notes it's a bargain.

El I may have imagined this, but you have the Two Notes right?

What surprises me is the EPSI has not done as well well as it perhaps should have. I mean it's a much cheaper alternative and equally effective.  They'll probably quit them in a couple of years.  Shame as a Mark II might have been nice.

I got mine second hand of a polish guy who dare I say didn't really use it to it's full potential.  So I got mine even cheaper than what they are (about £50 less    :lol:)

It changed the way I record and the quality.  The danger of getting lost in IR hell exists though and is very real!  I had to stop looking through them all and splicing two IR's together like DR Frankenstein hahahhahaa!

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

El Chiguete

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #80 on: Time Format »

Jaja no I dont have the Two Notes unit, I do have their pluggin software and bought 1 additional cab to try it out once. It was cool but I havent used it again becaus I want to actually have a sound that I can replicate like LIVE instead of having an EXCELENT tone in a recording and then sounding like shit because the rig used in the recording is not what I'm playing live. So I focused on buying better gear and improving my "live" sound even tho I dont play live that often.

PS:
There is a need for people to change cabs in a live situation, if there wherent then you wouldnt have products like this http://www.tonebone.com/cabbone.php. Also the other way to do it is to have different amps and cabinets all set up on the stage and change thru them... I'm sure you've seen people with multiple different amps and cabinets on stage no?

Check out Aerosmith live rig http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Rig_Rundown_Aerosmiths_Joe_Perry_and_Brad_Whitford

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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #81 on: Time Format »



PS:
There is a need for people to change cabs in a live situation, if there wherent then you wouldnt have products like this http://www.tonebone.com/cabbone.php. Also the other way to do it is to have different amps and cabinets all set up on the stage and change thru them... I'm sure you've seen people with multiple different amps and cabinets on stage no?


Oh yeah, Tonebone man like that is A MASSIVLEY used product.  You're joking right?

How many bands have you ever watched change cabs per show?  You're just looking to validate your point about the two notes capability.  And that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, so because they make a product that can do this (which is nice if you really need it) you're saying to me that it's the regular done thing or at least implying it is?  No way mate.  Some people might do this but it's not common to do it.

Put it this way, have you ever saw your beloved Iron Maiden switch cabs in a show? Well I sure as hell haven't and no live shows I watched of them did they ever switch cabs.  Amps yes, in the early days though, same amp whole show.

I've saw more than one amp on stage and preamps and pedals but I've never ever saw anyone switch to an alternative cab during a show.  I've played with many big bands and I've yet to see one change to another cab during a song.  Not even an acoustic amp!  When I see one switch cabs, I'll tell you about it.

And at the level I play it, no one does it because it's overkill and not practical. 

Does your band switch cabs all over the shop mid set? :???:

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #82 on: Time Format »

Me personally i would never use a cabsim live,i never had problems with getting a good live sound with my amps and cabs.
But it is very interesting to use for recordings,so i'm only after software plugins,no hardware needed.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #83 on: Time Format »

No nor do I have issues with using real cabs

however getting on a plane with 4 guitar cabinets is an issue, getting on a plane with a stomp box is not.  So what I'm saying is that it would be a viable alternative without any shortcomings.  This is why I would consider it not because I have problems with real cabs. 

But then all my backline will be provided at the gigs I'm playing this year in Europe although I would really consider this or certainly always have it as another possibility.

If you would use it (a cabism) for recording but would never do so live is almost contradictory is it not?  Imagine you could just turn up to a gig without guitar cabs, it would be amazingly convenient.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

Superficially I like the idea of cabs behind me though  ^-^  buts that’s down to the image I have imprinted in my mind of bands with wall of cabs behind them,  I can't erase that.



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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #84 on: Time Format »

A few including Dante went down this route combined with in ear monitors. I play regularly through my studio setup using the MP2 cab sims (as does Mike with his MP1 and GCS3), it works fine, and I've done it through a small PA in a bookshop cafe.... I've not doe it at volume but there's no reason it wouldn't work fine.  But there are 2 aspects that come to mind, it does sound different through amp/cabs (and I like being surrounded by it  >:D ) and the way the guitar interacts with the volume etc, the other is adequate monitors, I wouldn't use the in ear, I like to be surrounded by it. While decent monitors are possible, the guitarist is usually last on the list...  IIRC Dante also found that he needed an amp to have some stage sound for the people up front.
So it's really going to depend on the gig IMO, you could go out with a 2RU setup (MP2 and MultiFX in its loop & midi pedal), nice and compact, add poweramp and cabs as required or go direct with cab sims if the monitors are up to it. But I'm tailoring this to your needs RG coz you fly to lots of gigs, personally, I'd rather take poweramp and cabs of my own choosing, but they have to get there (and back)
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #85 on: Time Format »

OK Richard I hear ya.

You've assumed a few things here though from what I would I have said.  To begin, I am not thinking about doing this.  But the main thing you mention is the in ear monitors.  If I was going to do this I would not use in ear monitors.  I would use a few powered stage monitors.

One time I nearly considered going FRFR.  For this I was going to buy 4x powered stage monitors.  So if I was personally going to try this I would have monitors to give me my sound.  I pretty much did go half FRFR, by using amp modeler but with real cabs.  And now I've replaced the amp modeler with external pres hence arriving at this depot.

If I was going to try this abroad so as I had no need to take any form of speaker with me I would also rely on the in house monitors at the venus we are playing.

Two compare the old cab sims of MP2 or even the GCS3 to the impulse cab sims is a little bit unfair in my opinion.  These units to me are light years in the past when it comes to how real the impulse cab sims are.  So if you think those analogue sims sound good (and I don't doubt this) then you'd only be even more convinced by a Two Notes Torpedo or by the EPSI unit I use.  I mean I could have any cab any speaker any mic postion I desired in an impulse.  It's insane the possibilities.

But there you go I'm not going to do it just yet.  I'll wait till I can no longer carry my back line.
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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #86 on: Time Format »

Hey RG, I love the sound of the MP2 cab sim and Mikes MP1 GCS3 sim into studio monitors. If I could replicate that live, I wouldn't be unhappy (and with decent PA gear I could)). From what you say there are even better options available cab sim wise (I hear you), in the end it comes down to the PA and monitors (or in ear monitors) for how it will sound for you.
My fav mix was doing a Yass Bachelor and Spinster gig (lots of bands, drinks are free after entry...). Anyway the Monitor guy is a mate of mine, we're on the back of 2 semis, I get stereo monitors (each 2 x 15 & horn) and side fill, and what's more important 40 mins + to tune it.  So I've got stereo guitar behind me from my cabs and stereo monitors (incl guit in front), and side fills (more guitar). Melt me...

In the end though, nothing quite like cranking up some cabs... >:D
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MarshallJMP

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #87 on: Time Format »

Well i like to use both analog cabsims mixed with the two notes plugin.But they just can't replace real cabs.
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rabidgerry

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #88 on: Time Format »

Ok that's fair enough, but how can they not replace them when you are willing to use them on a recording............in place of them?

I personally think they could, sorry not replace them but substitute (is a better word) them in the situations I have mentioned above.  They could not replace them because without them there would be no impulses to begin with.

I've used a lot of analogue speaker sims in my time, and while some were good and totally usable none sounded anything remotely close to the mic'd speakers sound of impulse sounds.  Nowhere remotely close.  Basically analogue versions are a lot of EQing and how I would say "2d"  whereas impulse files for me feel more "3d" if that makes sense.

On a record I'm sure like you MJMP you could mix both, and hell people (like Judas Priest) have mixed direct signal (no speaker EQ cabs  or anything to tame harshness) to good effect with mic's sounds blended alongside so I can see a use for them if you really wanted to.

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"whadda ya want? we want Heavy Metal"

Guitars:1986 Westone Dimension IV, 1989 Korean Squier Fat Strat Silver Series, 1998 Korean Squier Fat Strat, MIM Fender Fat Strat - FR, Squier Stagemaster Deluxe - Thru Neck x 2, Squier Stagemaster 22 Fret - 1st Gen, 1999 Squier Showmaster - Anniversary Edition, Squier Showmaster, Tokai FV40 Flying V

Effects:  Ada Mp1, Peavey Rockmaster, Boss GX700 Boss SX700 * Amps:   Rocktron Velocity 300 - Harley Benton GPA400
Cabs: 4 x Bugera 2 x 12"

rnolan

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Re: Cabinet Simulators
« Reply #89 on: Time Format »

Given the choice, I'd still use cabs in the studio and go to the same trouble as drums to mic them up. But then you need a studio with enough space etc, not so easy at home.
In the end it's whatever makes the sound you want. And mix and match is one way to go.
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