ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Let us never forget our beloved founder - RIP Jurrie, we all miss you very much

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise  (Read 2905 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MRob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile

Hi all I'm glad this forum is back up and running.    I'm brand new to rack stuff, have always used heads and combos.

About 2 yrs ago I bought an ADA MP2, MosValve Power Amp and a ProVerb FX unit.  Received it, left it in the box and NEVER messed with it!  I recently got a steal on a Rocktron Hush (newer version) so I have that now and I also have a Furman Power Conditioner.  I have a Mesa Ported 1x12 cab, a Genz Benz Gflex 2x12, a Carvin 4x12 and a few others, so I have cabs.  Wow... So, now it's time to build this thing and see what I can get out of it!

Any suggestions to start with?

What kind of cables should I use to hook it all up?  HOW do I hook all this stuff up???  Should I get a shallow rack or a regular 19" rack.  6RU or 8RU?

Looking for your expertise advice.   I know there may be better units to buy with what I have here, but I've never even hooked this up, so I want to try this to start with. 

I'm an 80's guy and am dying to get something near the good old 80's rock sound..

Looking forward to your thoughts and advice!

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Time Format by MRob »
Logged

van Sinn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 464
  • Know Thy Law
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #1 on: Time Format »

Not really much to say other than go get a 19" box and start loading it with what you have now.
If one of your devices are a Bit shallow, perhaps the Furman can be rear mounted, resulting in a mere 4u box.
I see a nice rig coming out of it; not'n to be ashamed about..

You may have an issue with not having identical cabs for each side, but no one says stereo cannot be stacked vertically.
You might want to try stacking the 2x12 on top of the 4x12 and run this as 'vertical stereo'; will still give you a nice ambient sound scape.

Oh, and welcome in here - I seem to forget this these days ;)
Logged

MarshallJMP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3362
    • View Profile
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #2 on: Time Format »

Maybe go for an 8 RU rack case, I know from experience you get more stuff in the future  ::) I also started out with a 4 RU and I have an 18 RU now. Also the MP-2 gets quite hot after a few hours of use so it would be best to leave one space open above so it gets some cool air.
I would not go for a shallow rack, might be too small for the MP-2.And I don't know how deep that mosvalve is. Maybe others can give some advise here.

As for connections, you will need some patch cables too hook it all up. And you can either use the loop of the MP-2 to put the effects in or you can connect them after the MP-2.Never used the stereo loop of the MP-2 so don't know if it's good or not.

Then some midi? Do you have a midi foot controller ? In can see something that looks like a ADA midi controller in the pic, correct? If so which model is it? The ART has midi, does the hush also have midi (some models do ,some don't)

So let us know and I'm sure others will chime in too, so you'll have that rack up and running soon.
Logged

Kim

  • Bringer of Doom
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
  • Circle in the night, a fire within.
    • View Profile
    • Ov Moros
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #3 on: Time Format »

Hi and Welcome!  :wave:

I have my fx unit in the MP-2 Loop, no problems there that I'm aware of as long as you aren't driving that Loop too hard...as always, pay mind to the Gain Structures when combining rack units and set the levels appropriately.

You might find that your Hush unit isn't really needed as well.  The MP-2 has a pretty good Noise Reduction/Gate, just takes a little tweaking to set to your liking but then you can also have it set differently for every patch you program/use.

Logged
RIG OF FIRE:  ADA MP-2, Rocktron Xpression, Peavey Classic 60/60, Gator GPB-BAK-1 pedalboard, Korg DTR1000, Rolls MidiBuddy, Morley Tremonti wah, Saturnworks buffered splitter.
Mellotron/organ section:  Boss CS-3, EHX Mel9, EHX C9, Morley Volume, Crate Powerblock.
Pair of 4x12 cabs:  each custom wired for both 2x12 guitar and 2x12 Mel9. diagram
HOME/STUDIO/COMBOS/STUFF:  ADA Quad Tube 150m, Crate G60XL, Saturnworks Saturn Fuzz, Boss LS-2, Boss BF-3.
GUITARS:  Jackson KE3-DiMarzio Breed/PAF Pro, Jackson KE3-DiMarzio Breed/PAF Pro, Silvertone P-bass, '70s Gretsch Dorado acoustic.

Harley Hexxe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1169
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #4 on: Time Format »

Welcome to the Depot MRob!

   A standard size rack would be a good idea since I know the Furman and ADA's are the same depth. You always want to have room for your connections in the back without bending your connections at the jacks. I'm not sure how deep the power amp is though, so you may want to take that into consideration. Also, if the power amp is a tube amp, leaving a space between units is a good idea, or else you can use a small clip on fan in back of the rack to move air around your tube equipment. That will help prevent problems caused by heat.
   When you mount your gear in the rack case, as you are looking at the rack from the back, run all your power cables on the left side, and all your audio cables on the right. Send your control cables, (Midi, foot switches) up the center. As for audio cables, try to use only the length you need for your connections. If your soldering skills are good, you can make your own cables to length, and all audio cables are shielded, speaker cables are NEVER shielded. You always want to make cables that have enough length to plug in without stressing, (no sharp bends at the jacks), and I prefer Switchcraft jacks.
   I never used the ART unit, but it looks like the standard DSP processor of the day, so it will be fine in the effects loop of the MP-2, especially if you are going to use time based effects like delay and reverb. The MP-2 loops have a mix control for each loop, but I've found that if I leave the mix at 100% wet in the MP-2, and adjust the effects level on the unit to a lower, more useable mix, that the MP-2 tone is more satisfying to my ears. Of course with certain effects processors, the opposite is true. You'll have to use your ears for that.
   The MP-2 is a very complicated unit in terms of programming and editing, just don't give up on it. There is plenty of help here at the Depot, and we'll get you going with it. If you are going to use the Hush unit instead of the built-in noise gate, I would recommend putting that in the signal chain between the output of the preamp and the input of the power amp instead of in the effects loop. You may want to get all your connections together and hook up everything on your desktop and audition it that way before mounting everything in the rack. That way, you'll know how everything will be connected and how it will sound when it's all in the case.
   If you are going to run a stereo rig, and your 4x12 cab has the ability to run in stereo, then that would be the ideal way to audition your rack rig. Just be sure the impedance of the power amp and the cab are matched. You never want the speaker impedance to be lower than the power amp impedance or you'll cook the power amp.

    That should get you started.

     Harley 8)
Logged
Cool is a rule, and Creativity is KING!

MRob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #5 on: Time Format »

Wow!  Thank you to everyone here!  You guys are great!! 

A lot of info here, looks like I have a lot more to think about than I had expected.  I'm off all next week, so will get started with things and keep you all posted here.

I greatly appreciate the time and dedication you all put into helping us newbies!   :headbanger:
Logged

MarshallJMP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3362
    • View Profile
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #6 on: Time Format »

The hush does need to be put before any time based effects like a delay and reverb, else the tail of the delay or reverb could be cut off to early when it goes below the threshold of the hush.
Logged

Harley Hexxe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1169
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #7 on: Time Format »

Wow!  Thank you to everyone here!  You guys are great!! 

A lot of info here, looks like I have a lot more to think about than I had expected.  I'm off all next week, so will get started with things and keep you all posted here.

I greatly appreciate the time and dedication you all put into helping us newbies!   :headbanger:

   That's why we're here :thumb-up:

   *MJMP is absolutely correct about the Hush unit, but you may find you don't really need it, (until you get bitten by the bug and get a MP-1).
Logged
Cool is a rule, and Creativity is KING!

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4270
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #8 on: Time Format »

Hey MRob, welcome to the depot, some good advice already coming your way I see  :thumb-up: .  And you have the makings of one of the best analogue guitar racks available on the planet IMHO.
I'll be a little more opinionated (as your rack will be very similar to mine), forget the hush, sell it you don't need it, the MP2 noise gate will work just fine for really high gain settings, for middle to lower gain (MP2 voices 6 or less) you don't need a gate (or your gain structure is not good).  Run the FX in the MP2 stereo loop as this will let you use the cab sim outputs for recording and still have FXs on it (should you want to).  You need minimum 4 RU rack but as MJMP says good to have more space to add to (he's got 18RU  :facepalm: ).  My rack is 8RU but I have a small mixer velcroed to the bottom of it.  6 RU is a good in between and will still fit in your car boot, 8RU fits in some boots but not all (a bit of practicality).  Mount the MP2 at the top of the rack, this gives it a bit of "breathing space" between top of the rack and MP2, they do get hot, ideally leaving a 1/2 to 1 RU gap is a good idea for cooling but not essential, I've run my MP2 like this for years with no problem (and I'm in Australia, not known for being a cold place LoL).  Unless you have power issues in your area or where you intend to use this rig you also don't need the furman, I've never needed one or similar unless I play off a generator (which are sometimes dodgy) and then a $200 computer UPS works better and is heaps cheaper (others here may disagree but this is my extended experience with MP2 rigs) and the only time you'd really need power conditioning.  If you do want to use the furman, mount it at the bottom so your MP2 is the top unit and can breathe. Put you FX under the MP2 (as doesn't get as hot) followed by poweramp.  Connect cabs in stereo (like already suggested), ADA rigs just melt you when in stereo, even if the cabs aren't perfectly the same (obviously make sure the speaker power ratings (watts) and impedance (ohms) matches the power amp.

The main commercially available racks (SKB, Gator etc) seem to come in 3 depths, shallow, in-between and deep.  The in-between racks suit ADA rigs the best as the ADA units are 10.5 inches deep (e.g. SKB ATA rack, these are the older style SKB racks and are harder to find but they are perfect).  The shallow racks can work (e.g. SKB Roto rack) but you'll need to have right angled jack patch leads and there's less room for MP2 to cool/breathe.  The deep racks are a bit too deep but have more room for a powerboard etc (or as suggested to mount the furman from the back). Though I'd suggest sell the hush and the furman and use the $s to buy the rack.
From the little bit in the corner of your pic (as MJMP noted) it seems you have the ADA MXC midi pedal ?? If you got the standard MP2 pedal pack it should also have a 7 pin midi lead, 1 x expression pedal, a quad switch and a wall wart to phantom power the pedal via the back of the MP2.
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

MRob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #9 on: Time Format »

Wow! You guys are GREAT!  Thanks so much once again. 

Ok, so I have the units together now, but not hooked up.  I have "some clue" where to start from reading here, but looking at the back I have no clue how to get these all hooked up! 

I am posting another pic or two so you can better see the rig in full.  And yes, as some have mentioned, I have these two foot switches... Not sure what the small one is for, but they are in the pics below.

I just got the Hush... it's a newer model and I picked it up for $49.00!  I'm sure I could sell it as mentioned, but I would like to hook it up in my system and see what it does or doesn't do for me.  If not needed, I will sell it.

Also, I was just planning on running this through my 1x12 ported Mesa cab for simplicity.   It sounds like most recommend using two cabs and running stereo?   Will the 1x12 alone not sound good?
IF I do use two cabs should they be set apart from each other?   (I've never ran anything stereo before)

IF stereo is that much better then I will consider getting another Mesa 1x12 cab to match.

I've been chasing the 80s sound for a long time and have had many amps to include a Mark V that I sold!  (sellers regret)  BUT it was a pain to tweak and was also noisy and I just couldn't get what I wanted with it.   When I hear the MP2 on youtube I "hear it!"  I hear the sound that I've been looking for!  And that's on freakin Youtube!  I'm sure it's gonna sound great!
« Last Edit: Time Format by MRob »
Logged

MarshallJMP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3362
    • View Profile
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #10 on: Time Format »

I attached a pic with the connections.

I would put the mosvalve below in the case, then the ART,Hush and on top the MP-2.

Not on the pic are the connections to the speaker(s) ,but that speaks for it self. I would go stereo since the whole rig is stereo.

Also not on the pic is the midi pedal, seems you have an MXC with the quad switch and pedal. Hook the pedal and quad switch to the MXC (use stereo leads !).You can find all info in the MXC manual.Then use a 7 pin midi cable and go from the MXC midi out to the MP-2 midi in.The only thing left to do is hook up the wall adapter of the pedal to the phantom power in plug on the back of the MP-2 (next to the midi in jack).This way the power for the pedal goes through the midi cable.

Next is to do the programming, but first hook it up.
Logged

rnolan

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4270
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #11 on: Time Format »

Hey MRob, There are a few ways you can plug it together.  What MJMP has posted uses the Hush in the FX loop, I wouldn't put it there as it a noise gate thing (but he obviously has reasons for this thinking).  I've not used a Hush and maintain it is  totally superfluous to your needs.  However, if you insist on bothering with it, I'd put it between the MP2 A/B out puts and the poweramp (MP2 A/B out > Hush L/R inputs, Hush L/R out puts > power amp chn1/2 inputs).  (However, I suggest you start without using the Hush and include it later if you want to).  So then MP2 FX send 1/2 to FX unit L/R inputs, FX L/R output to MP2 FX 1/2 returns.  To hear the FXs you will need to turn on the FX loop for each patch (that you want FX for) and adjust the wet/dry mix on the MP 2 patch loop (default is 25%  (ie 75% dry sound, 25% wet sound) and a good place to start) and adjust the FX units wet/dry mix to be Full Wet. Also set MP2 FX loop buttons to line level. If you haven't read the MP2 manual, please read it now, it will help you understand how it works and also make better sense of our suggestions and then, make your own choices (for now don't worry about the real time midi stuff). Then read the MXC pedal manual.  Initially you can leave the expression pedal and Quad switch alone (they use real time midi continuous control) and work them in later when you understand  how they work and what they do.

For Cabs, you can use your 1 x 12 Messa on one poweramp output (channel) and use your 2 x12 cab on the other (this is easiest for now I suspect (or use 2 x12 and 4 x12)).  But better would probably be use your Carvin 4 x 12 cab but rewire it to run stereo  as then each channel has the same speakers (now some 4 x 12 cabs have stereo mono wiring built in already). If yours does (BTW which carvin 4 x 12 is it ?  they make quite a few different cabs) then just select the stereo option and plug 2 speaker leads into it Poweramp out 1/2 > cab L/R in.
Ideally the distance/gap between cabs (if you use 2 cabs) is at least the width of the widest cab (usually the same width as you would generally use 2 identical cabs).  With 4 x 12 cabs wired stereo, you get some modulation inside the cab but lets go there later...
Logged
Studio Rig: MP2/MB1 > Eurorack UB2442FX-Pro > TC M-One XL > Behringer Truths (with Truth Sub) / QUAD ESL 63s
Live Rig: MP2/MB1 > Alesis Quadverb > Alesis Midiverb 4 > Yamaha AM802 > B200s/Carvin TS100/DCM200L > ADA Split Stacks/Mesa P112s

Rawk777

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #12 on: Time Format »

I think MarshallJMP diagram makes a lot of sense, and is the right way to do it, but requires a strong unerstanding on how to program everything.

If you want a shortcut to test your rig without having to program everything, you could skip the effect loop and midi link between mp2 and art to make it simpler to use.

MP2 stage output > Hush > Art > MosValve

Once you can use this simpler setup and have some fun with it, you could then try using it like MarshallJMP suggest it.
Logged

MarshallJMP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3362
    • View Profile
    • marshalljmpmodshop.net
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #13 on: Time Format »

MP2 stage output > Hush > Art > MosValve



That would be the way I would do it personnaly
Logged

Kim

  • Bringer of Doom
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
  • Circle in the night, a fire within.
    • View Profile
    • Ov Moros
Re: NEW To Racks - Have ADA Gear - please advise
« Reply #14 on: Time Format »

MP2 stage output > Hush > Art > MosValve



That would be the way I would do it personnaly

 ^  Except for the Hush.  I've always had my rack hooked up in series like this, but I changed it about a year ago.  Now I have my fx in the Loop in order to take advantage of using the MP-2 XLR Recording Outs should I ever need to for any reason.   If the units are in Series, then any external fx would not be present at the Recording Outs. 

No Hush needed with the MP-2.  (MP-1 based racks will need one, but in Series....never in Loop.)

That said, I recommend to anyone new to racks to hook it up in series; the easiest way first.  Then, after becoming familiar with everything they can decide if a change needs to be made.
« Last Edit: Time Format by Kim »
Logged
RIG OF FIRE:  ADA MP-2, Rocktron Xpression, Peavey Classic 60/60, Gator GPB-BAK-1 pedalboard, Korg DTR1000, Rolls MidiBuddy, Morley Tremonti wah, Saturnworks buffered splitter.
Mellotron/organ section:  Boss CS-3, EHX Mel9, EHX C9, Morley Volume, Crate Powerblock.
Pair of 4x12 cabs:  each custom wired for both 2x12 guitar and 2x12 Mel9. diagram
HOME/STUDIO/COMBOS/STUFF:  ADA Quad Tube 150m, Crate G60XL, Saturnworks Saturn Fuzz, Boss LS-2, Boss BF-3.
GUITARS:  Jackson KE3-DiMarzio Breed/PAF Pro, Jackson KE3-DiMarzio Breed/PAF Pro, Silvertone P-bass, '70s Gretsch Dorado acoustic.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up