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Non ADA Gear => Rack Gear => Topic started by: Dante on March 06, 2014, 04:09:48 PM

Title: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 06, 2014, 04:09:48 PM
I'm not looking for more rack gear, but I did run across an Eleven Rack nearby at a reasonable price (which is rare in itself) so I'm considering it. Especially after reading all the reviews about running it directly into the PA (we use IEMs, which is nice).

IIRC, the big drag about these is that the mono (Left) output is on the front, while the second output (for stereo) is on the back (wtf?). Also, it appears to only work with ProTools, I use LOGIC. Hmmm...

Any other opinions?
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 06, 2014, 10:06:57 PM
That's always been the issue with Avid (digidesign), only works with their hardware/software.  Although the latest versions >=10 of ProTools (finally) support other I/O hardware.  So now you pay the big bucks for the software where as before you paid big for the hardware and they threw in the software.
I just realised someone I know has the Eleven Rack in his ProTools set up.  He seemed pretty happy with it.  It seems the AxeFX is the top dog in cloning at the moment, but not cheap. I'm happy with my MP2 set up but then I'm not trying to copy other tones these days (or ever really).
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 07, 2014, 10:13:50 AM
As appealing as it sounds to bring a single unit to a gig and run it direct, I can do the same thing with my MP-2 + Quadraverb in a 2u rack (which I have). So, I kinda talked myself out of it.

The MP-2 cab sims do a respectable job, so I could see myself plugging straight into the snake and leaving the amp/cabs at home. I am not overly fond of the direct signal from the Classic though...maybe an ADA Cab Sim would help
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 08, 2014, 05:43:48 AM
Hey Dante, reducing/consolidating is always nice but don't sacrifice the sound (no clones... real tubes mmmm...). I've not played a Classic (for me MP1 and now MP2) but I do miss some aspects of the MP1 sound (which I assume is encapsulated in the Classic with some of the best later to be MP2 features, and the brown? classic users allude to).  In the end, I find I can do all I want with the MP2 (I've very much found "my" sound (with it/and previously the MP1, albeit different)) and a decent effect (my MP-2 + Quadraverb in a 2u rack (which I have)), is a kick ass rig which can go anywhere.  To me nothing beats cranking up with a good amp/cab(s), but I've not used IEMs.
Are the cab sims in the MP2 different from the Classic ? (I wouldn't have thought so) Anyway the cab sims in my MP2 do a great job.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 08, 2014, 10:20:02 AM
The IEMs make all the difference in the world. My ears no longer ring, and I haven't touched my vocal monitor in over a year, which makes for a very clear stage surface. I have to turn my amp up to 'gig levels' to get accurate tone, but running direct works fine.

The only noise on the stage itself is the drum set and the bass player's cab, which he also doesn't need, but we all like to feel it.

I have no idea if the cab sims are different between the MP-2 and the Classic, but they sound different and the inputs are different. One is xlr and the other is 1/4" - not sure if the Classic has balanced outputs with the 1/4" jacks, but as I said before, I am not overly fond of the Classic's direct out tone. Also, there is no switch on the Classic for different cab sims, as the MP-2 has the 2x12/4x12 options...you just get what you get with the Classic.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 08, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
I must try IEMs sometime.
From what you say it seems the MP2 cab sims are different to Classic.  I an idea you could try, plug the Classic main outs (careful with volume) into the MP2 loop returns as this bypasses pretty much everything everything except tremolo (so turn off), room eq and output level which then feed the MP2 cab sims, if the loop returns work like this (can't see why they wouldn't although need to adjust loop mix settings to full wet), you could use this idea to plug a variety of things via the MP2 cab sims (obviously one gadget at a time although probably 2 mono signals would work) anyway, food for thought.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 09, 2014, 04:27:05 PM
Quote
I am not overly fond of the Classic's direct out tone. Also, there is no switch on the Classic for different cab sims, as the MP-2 has the 2x12/4x12 options...you just get what you get with the Classic.
Wait - I stand corrected - there is indeed a cab sim switch on the Classic to select between a 'single or array' and by running the direct outs at line levels instead of instrument levels, I am getting some pretty good tones outta the Classic.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 10, 2014, 03:00:18 AM
Cool, I'm going to try the MP2 loop idea with my mates MP1 a soon as I get a chance, if it works how I think it should, we should be able to plug a range of preamps into it.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: RobbHell on June 28, 2014, 06:48:01 PM
Just a heads up to all Modeling Users Avid..Line6...AxeFx.  For one digital and fake. Two every digital preamp has A/D/A convertor and shitty ones at that. But to go from Analog to Digital and Back you need solid state opamps and and Audio pad. Well take a look inside you unit and youll gladly find Cheap op and quad amps shitty Cap and Not One Tone Cap. Where the Hell is the tone coming from these Companies boast their units contain. It not there lol.  Your are much better off using a Descent interface and Lou Poulins amps Models. Hell I've even ran my ADA direct to the interface and ran a Metallica Impulse. That sounded better than any
of that Modeling bullshit because a Amp Impulses quite modeling at all. Hot tubes and good Caps is where Tone will always be produced not Digital. Digital isn't even close to Coloring the Sound a way a Tube Sat can.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: mike_mp-1 on July 21, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
Quote
Hot tubes and good Caps is where Tone will always be produced not Digital. Digital isn't even close to Coloring the Sound a way a Tube Sat can.

I agree.
How can a DIGITAL piece of equipment make sounds that are smooth and saturated like a real amp ?
It is digital is it not, so the sound is always going to be digital, so how can a digital piece of equipment create the tone of the caps, the heat, the coolness, the tubes at different temperatures and so on, not possible.

I understand not having to fiddle with the amps and tubes and replacing parts and what have you, I get that, your tone is always consistent, consistently digital that is, in your face same sound over and over.

I would use and AXE FX for overdubbing in recording, would be a good addition.

Every time I find a great tone through guitar rig or other impulses, they seem great at first, until I plug in the MP-2 or MP-1, and heck even the Sans Amp works great.

Eleven rack would be a good addition if you are going to record and overdub some parts.

I have tried to like the digital stuff, makes it so much more easier, but the tone sacrifice is not worth it for me.

Today, most musicians growing up they are in the era, and that is all they hear, is the digital reproduced stuff, so they are not accustomed to the older gear and what actual makes a tone happen, and of course, some to lazy to care, to each his own.

Would I buy an AXE FX if I had the money, only if I had a recording studio or even for the effects in it, supposed to be so transparent.

My 2 Cents
P.S: Stay away from Digital...lol j/k
If it is a really good deal, then yeah go for it.

M
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on July 22, 2014, 09:26:46 AM
Everything has its place, but personally, I love analogue guitar, preferably through tubes, at least the preamp stage, and keep it analogue, mix in the digital FX, much better....
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: trader144 on March 05, 2015, 09:26:49 PM
FWIW,
My G Major display went out the other day. I replaced the G major with an Avid 11 Rack.
The 11 Rack modelling is really good and there are tons of presets you can download for free--but the gain and distortion lacks in comparison to the good old MP-1.
I gave the 11 rack's distortion an honest try, but the MP-1's quality, clarity, sustain, etc. etc. clearly shines and modelling software seems to fizz out on long notes.

I am using the 11 Rack as my effects unit for the MP-1, which was my plan all along. I turn off the 11 rack amp sim and use the 11 rack cab simulation when not running thru a real amp.
The effects are really good and programmable/swappable.

For the first time the rear input jack of the MP-1 is a critical connection!!
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 05, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
Thanks for the review!

I use a Boss GX-700 for my FX because it is all swappable too, I can rearrange the fx chain easily. The gains are pretty respectable, but I only found 1-2 that I would ever use live. The MP-1 Classic has gobs of good voices, same with the MP-2. With that versatility, I too have disabled the preamps in the Boss.

So, using our beloved ADA gear for the hot-rodded tube amp tones and then picking your favorite FX box seems like a good approach.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on March 06, 2015, 12:03:10 AM
Nice!
The 11R is an awesome piece of gear, goes by "Poor Mans AxeFX" over here  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 06, 2015, 03:05:48 AM
Again I've yet to hear anything that seriously rivals MP1/2 for the gain/tone stage. And lots of good digital FX to pick from to mix in. If I had an AxeFX I'd just use the FX.
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on March 06, 2015, 03:11:03 AM
Again I've yet to hear anything that seriously rivals MP1/2 for the gain/tone stage. And lots of good digital FX to pick from to mix in. If I had an AxeFX I'd just use the FX.

I'll let you play my Triaxis/2:90 rig dry (FX bypassed) when you visit me in the land of the rising sun   ;D
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: rnolan on March 06, 2015, 03:23:49 AM
Cool look forward to it. Hey I may come to Europe and catch up, it's a while before your posting isn't it ? I've been wanting visit MJMP in Belgium, maybe even get Dante along. I played through one in a friends studio a while ago and wasn't particularly impressed but I didn't tweak it so it was subject to whatever had been programmed, I thought it should have (could have) sounded better. Also the guitar I was using is made by a New Zealand guy using ancient wood from the bottom of a lake almost petrified. Wood seemed fine (very interesting), the PUs weren't as good as he thinks they are (he makes his own..) and I could give him some tips on how to make a better guitar, it didn't play that well (my taste).
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: trader144 on March 06, 2015, 12:23:28 PM
Nice!
The 11R is an awesome piece of gear, goes by "Poor Mans AxeFX" over here  :thumb-up:

Great I now have the complete poor man's setup: 60's strat (my 62 reissue), triaxis (my MP-1), AxeFX (my 11 rack), Marshall cab (my ADA split stack), and probably others.

By the way, for anyone considering something like it,  here is something to be aware of:
The 11 rack has the ability to electronically change/redesignate the inputs and output jacks between dry wet in or out.  Had I not been able to get a dry signal out of the 11 rack "to amp" jack  to go into the MP-1 input and then back into the 11 rack via the FX loop it probably would have been returned. This was the only configuration I could find that gave me the MP-1 sound. All other configurations were unuseable due to poor sound (either digitally sounding or had a level mismatch). The level mismatch could not be compensated for and both the MP-1 and 11rack have more than adequate ways to compensate. All of the other configurations I tried didn't work.

Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: trader144 on March 06, 2015, 12:31:19 PM
I'm not looking for more rack gear, but I did run across an Eleven Rack nearby at a reasonable price (which is rare in itself) so I'm considering it. Especially after reading all the reviews about running it directly into the PA (we use IEMs, which is nice).

IIRC, the big drag about these is that the mono (Left) output is on the front, while the second output (for stereo) is on the back (wtf?). Also, it appears to only work with ProTools, I use LOGIC. Hmmm...

Any other opinions?


There is a free editor from Avid that I am using. I didn't buy protools. Not sure what I am missing.
On the front back plug, they were targeting studios who use XLR not live performances with 1/4 inch jacks, but...one more jack in the back would have been smart. You could always run a 90 degree plug from the front to the back and tell people the rig is a custom build.

Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on March 07, 2015, 12:25:33 AM
I'm not looking for more rack gear, but I did run across an Eleven Rack nearby at a reasonable price (which is rare in itself) so I'm considering it. Especially after reading all the reviews about running it directly into the PA (we use IEMs, which is nice).

IIRC, the big drag about these is that the mono (Left) output is on the front, while the second output (for stereo) is on the back (wtf?). Also, it appears to only work with ProTools, I use LOGIC. Hmmm...

Any other opinions?


There is a free editor from Avid that I am using. I didn't buy protools. Not sure what I am missing.
On the front back plug, they were targeting studios who use XLR not live performances with 1/4 inch jacks, but...one more jack in the back would have been smart. You could always run a 90 degree plug from the front to the back and tell people the rig is a custom build.
There is more than enough space directly next to the Output jack othe back. Just mod/drill a hole in there and put a second jack there, then hardwire it from the connections of the front Output jack to the back ... saw that kinda mod a couple of times on 11Rs
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on March 13, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
Can I just bludgeon a hole with a chisel?

Way cooler, more fun, and it leaves an interesting shape to the hole
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on March 14, 2015, 01:28:21 AM
Welding is fun, too....  :thumb-up: :thumb-up: :thumb-up:

For the above mentioned applications I generally use these though:
(http://www.trennscheiben-shop.de/images/product_images/original_images/stufenbohrer_3_tlg..jpg)
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: trader144 on June 09, 2015, 09:06:16 AM
Just a follow-up

The 11 rack has 2 xlr plugs in the back for output to amp or board.  This is what I use to connect to my power amp via an xlr to 1/4" cable. I do not use the amp-out jacks (one on front and one on back).

I really like what the True-z input does for the Mp-1, kind of increases articulation and clarity.

Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on June 09, 2015, 09:23:33 AM
Just pulled the trigger on an 11R myself, waiting for it to show up at my place....
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: trader144 on June 09, 2015, 05:32:52 PM
Cool.

Here is how I did my setup in case it helps--took me a while as there are so many ways to set it up that work and don't work:

ADA midi pedal into MP-1 and out to 11R midi in

Guitar into 11R True z input-->FX loop send (stomp box level) to Mp-1 rear input -->MP-1 A out -->11R FX return --> 11R XLR out --> ADA Micro tube input

MP1 volume knob at 9 O'clock (25%)

11rack (free) editor setup for live performances:
FX loop in first position all knobs 100%
Spring reverb
Tape delay
No cabs or amps


For a bluesy clean and Bonamassa sound midi patches I added some parametric EQ in the mix

You can go straight to computer from the headphone jack with amp and can sims.

Lots of free patches to download.

Let us know how it goes.




Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Systematic Chaos on June 09, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
In search for a bedroom/headphone amp/rig and simple recording solution I compared it against a Pod HD500X and a GT100 and the 11R won hands-down....
I was mainly looking for an affordable modeller with my "comfort zone" amp sounds (Boogie Mk)...
Got the 11R including ProTools for ~300€ so it was a no-brainer....
Not planning on building a big rig or anything else around it....my Triaxis/2:90 wrecking ball covers that ;)
Title: Re: AVID Eleven Rack Opinions
Post by: Dante on June 12, 2015, 05:46:27 PM
Awesome. I've been seeing them around here for about $350-$400 US. Sounds like a good practice rig, but as you say, why build around it when what you have is doing the trick? Tempting as it's been - one guy was looking to trade for a guitar....which I have a few of - I have not ventured forth.

I'm now more tempted by the little bluetooth floorboard thingy to work my iPod using the iRig app.