ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

Miscellaneous => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: bunkyloo on November 13, 2017, 04:11:14 PM

Title: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on November 13, 2017, 04:11:14 PM
and an extremely noisy pitchtraq
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on November 14, 2017, 01:37:41 AM
Hey bunkyloo, welcome to the depot  :wave: , I just replied to you other post re pitchtraq.  So, give us some details about what's wrong/needs fixing and we'll help as much s we can  :thumb-up:
So you have MP1 to fix,post questions in MP1 section,
MP2 to fix, post questions in MP2 section.
As for the pitchtraq, provide as much detail as you can (context) to help us narrow it down..
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: SAVANNAH on January 23, 2018, 02:08:29 AM
I think your idea is very good.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: Dante on January 23, 2018, 07:08:39 AM
Dang, Bunkyloo....you have a whole rig there, an MP-1, an MP-2 and a pitchraq? Welcome to the family!

Folks in here will help you sort things out, no worries  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 02, 2018, 06:20:22 PM
Thanks all for the welcoming. I did get the pitchtraq fixed it was broken cold solders at  capacitors. Now I love it Mp1 I upgraded eprom but now I think I need a battery.
As for the mp-2 I bought another that has zero issues and I added the pretty blue screen lol it sounds great but I need to research the effects loop more it seems it quieted 1 side when using loop a only I haven't tested when using b or without the eq. any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated also I just received the mxc kit with expression and quad switch with hopes of controlling the pitchtraq in midi thanks in advance. Tones for days with my ada's lol
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 03, 2018, 03:29:16 AM
Hey bunkyloo, great news about the pitchtraq  :thumb-up: , easiest way to do the MP1 battery is do the battery mod which you can get from MJMP or you can buy a battery holder (just make sure the lugs line up).  You can buy batteries with the lugs attached but finding the right one is a bit tricky, easier to install battery holder.  Although there is also a mod that doesn't need the battery, also an option.  With the latest MP1 EPROM you can dump and load programs from your PC (via midi (sysex)), handy particularly if you are changing the battery (depending how many patches you'll developed)  writing them down is also a good fail-safe.

Have a look at page 2 of the MP2 manual, there's a really good diagram of the signal flow, you can see where the loop is (after stereo chorus) and how it fits in.  If you are getting a channel vol drop it may relate to the Fx level switch (line/inst).  When loop is in/on the direct sound is fed to the loop mixer (mixes the amount of wet signal), when it's out/off the direct signal bypasses the loop and goes straight to the tremolo.  So a volume drop may be an issue with the ch A loop mixer  :dunno: as there "shouldn't" be a difference in direct sound level.  Try using loop B instead (but also use B main output, as the loops are separate on each ch (i.e. A loop is on A out signal chain, B is on B).  From a patch perspective, the loop is either in or out (both A & B) and you can vary the return mix of A & B (the wet signal) independently.  Set your Fx device mix (dry/wet) to be full wet (100% Fx) and use the return vols in the MP2 to balance it with the dry (well not completely dry, it could already have eq and chorus added at this point) signal.

The MXC is a great pedal (kit), I use the expression pedal assigned to Stereo Volume Control (see page 62) (so controls output vol of MP-2), you have to assign it to what you want it to control (e.g. wah).  The Quad switch defaults to chorus, tremolo, loop on/off and tuner mute (see MXC manual) but you can make the 4 buttons turn any CC controlable toggle.  Unfortunately, your pitchtraq isn't controlled that way and has no "midi" interface.  Now it can be controlled remotely (with it's foot switch) so you need a way of sending it the appropriate commands.  There are pedals that do this kind of thing (others here know more about them than me) but basically you have to be able to program a button(s) to send out the commands the pitchtraq responds to on it's footswitch input.

The pitchtraq is designed more for the MP1 loop (mono/serial), with MP2 (well I use a mixer to do this kind of stuff) but it is probably easier to run it before the MP2 and not in the loop as it will only affect one channel. Are you running your rig in stereo ?? if not you are missing out big time.

Anyway hope that helps
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 03, 2018, 03:30:46 AM
Manuals
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 03, 2018, 03:33:58 AM
I tried to attach the MP2 Manual but it's being problematic so grab it from the MP-2 section (if you haven't already), very good manual BTW.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 04, 2018, 02:20:04 PM
Thanks for the information I am running stereo with a b200s and 4 split stacks .I did tackle the battery replacement mod for the mp1 should be an easier battery change next time.as for the mp2 and my pitchtraq iset  it up with the regen using the ada s1000 delay unit with hopes of controlling portionally through the effects loop as it worked with mp1. the only footswitch I have is the 2 button I use for the delay unit. I believe the fs4 works with the pitchtraq but I cant find one I can possibly build one but my hopes were more on of through midi on a lead setting. as far as first before mp2 I would need the proper footswitch the mixer sounds interesting if you could explain thanks in advance for the help.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 05, 2018, 04:41:24 AM
Good to hear you are running stereo, and 4 x split stacks  :whoohoo!: , should sound awesome  :thumb-up: .
So there are 2 main sorts of Fx "loops":
Serial (as in MP1) where the Fx unit is inserted into the signal path, with MP1 there is always signal on the loop send, this signal is after the tubes/gain stages and eq, the loop return deeds into the stereo chorus and is then split into A and B (IIRC B is the A signal inverted so creates "pseudo" stereo), so the MP1 loop is a mono loop and predominantly what the pitchtraq was designed for (as it's a mono device).  When the loop is on, the direct signal goes through the loop only and you need to adjust the desired wet/dry mix in the Fx unit(s), you can chain other mono Fx units in the loop (e.g. delay) being careful to get their individual input/output signals the correct level and also their wet/dry mix settings.  This is fiddly but it does work. Also the pitchtraq lets you use a delay plugged into it for various cascading/arpeggio Fxs (another option with what you have.

Parallel loops work a bit differently, the direct signal isn't interrupted by turning on the loop, rather it is split so it also goes to the loop send (well it usually already goes to the send, turning the MP2 loop on turns on the A & B loop returns).  The loop return then feeds into an internal mixer stage that blends the amount of return signal with the original direct signal.  So with these kind of loops you adjust the Fx wet/dry mix to be 100% wet (Fx), no dry and then balance the amount of Fx you want with the return volume setting.  The MP2 has a stereo parallel Fx loop, again there is always signal at the sends (A & B) and when turned on, the return signals A & B are mixed back with the dry signal within the MP2, so you adjust how much Fx you desire with the A & B loop return volumes (set for each patch).  With MP2 the A and B loop returns are on the separate MP2 channels (A & B) as at this point in the MP2 the signal is already stereo.  So if you put a mono Fx unit on say loop A, it will only effect channel A, channel B will be just dry signal (so with pitchraq in this scenario ch A would be pitch shifted, B would not).

Using a small stereo mixer with a couple (4 is good) of Fx (aux) sends lets you control it all in the mixer and also compensate for stereo or mono Fx units. So you plug the preamp MP1 or MP2 A & B outs into say mixer channel 1 & 2, use the channel Fx(aux) sends to feed the Fx unit, plug the Fx unit output back into the mixer (say channel 3 if mono or 3 & 4 if stereo), adjust Fx unit to 100% wet, and mix the dry and Fx signals with the channel volumes (faders) and plug the mixer main outputs (L/R) into the B200s A & B inputs. Much like you'd set up a Band PA mix and set you L/R pan controls accordingly.

So how I used to run my rig (I've never used the MP1 or MP2 Fx loops) (initially with MP1 then later MP2):
I use a Yamaha AM802 desk, 8 inputs, 3 mono Fx(aux) sends (1, 2 & 3), stereo out.
MP1 or later, MP2 A/B outs > channel 1 & 2, ch 1 Fx send to Quadverb L input, ch 2 Fx send to Quadverb R input, ch 1 Fx send 3 & ch2 Fx send 3 to IPS33 smart shift input (as is mono in).  Quadverb L/R out into channels 3 & 4, IPS33 A & B outs into channels 5 & 6.  Main mixer outs to B200s A/B inputs, B200s outs > 2 x split stacks.
MP1 or MP2 > channel 1 & 2

 
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 05, 2018, 05:06:11 AM
Date posted some stuff about modifying his quad switch to switch his viper, this approach could work to switch the pitchtraq  :dunno: , the only way you can switch it with midi is to have a midi footswitch/translater device that accepts the quad switch CC signals (via midi in) and converts them into the correct pitchtraq switch signals.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on March 05, 2018, 05:27:43 AM
For the pitchraq you need a DS-4 foot pedal, you can find them on reverb and ebay sometimes.

A quad switch will definitely not work since it uses voltage levels, the pitchraq needs pulses.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 05, 2018, 10:34:19 AM
Thanks everyone for all the valuable information. It looks like I will have to run the pitchtraq first then into the mp_2 .It did work fine with the mp-2 like you stated but that's more of a backup to me these days the mp-2 has a lot more to offer nonetheless both are amazing.
I am having a hard time finding that DS-4 pedal. Does anyone have a schematic or drawing on how to clone one with or without leds.
Thanks in advanceGP
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 05, 2018, 10:35:36 AM
I meant it works fine with MP-1 sorry
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on March 05, 2018, 01:53:22 PM
I don't think it's a good idea to put the pitchraq in front of the mp-2, my guess is that it's going to be noisy.

See attachment for the DS-4 schematic.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 05, 2018, 03:50:18 PM
I suppose you are right and that diagram is a bit more than some switches but thank you. I guess I will look around for a stereo rackmount mixer and keep it in the circuit sounds easy enough.
Can anybody recommend one for my mp-2 and pitchtraq application thanks in advance.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 06, 2018, 04:47:17 AM
I'd recommend a Behringer Eurorack UB2442FX Pro, (I have 3 of these and they are great, not too expensive, well thought out and very (very) versatile). (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/behringer-eurorack-ub2442fx-pro).  It will do everything you need (and give you reverb) plus much more if e.g. you want to use it for recording.  You can use the 2 monitor sends as Fx sends (they are switchable pre/post fader (Fx sends are usually post fader (fader changes change send level), monitor sends are pre fader (fader changes don't change the send level).  You can rack mount these but they have a big (vertical) footprint. (see attached pic of studio rig)

However, if you want a rackmount mixer, while there are a few (1 RU) options they tend to lack enough FX sends.  I'm yet to spot one that has enough sends for the kit I have.

If you can find a Yamaha AM802 in reasonable condition (this is what I have in my live rack) it will work for you (but they are not rack mountable)  You can mount them on a rack shelf, I have mine velcroed to the bottom of my rack (see attached pic, it at the bottom of the rack, I have MP2 and MB1 in this rig, you could go MP2 and MP1  >:D )
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 06, 2018, 07:41:49 AM
Thanks for all the help from everyone. I well  let you know when I get it sorted out.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 07, 2018, 01:43:25 AM
Hey bunkyloo, as you research the options, maybe start a new thread/topic and let us know your thinking, there are many options and many members here have good ideas and experiences to share.  One idea I had worth a try with what you already have is (with MP2) put the pitchtraq in loop A and the ADA delay in loop B both 100% wet on the Fx units (sort/adjust gains on the Fx units input and output and loop & loop return mix levels). This should sound pretty awesome.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 07, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
That is An interesting thought I will at least try thanks for the idea.
In any event I need to find that DS-4 footswitch that would open the doors to a few otions.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 08, 2018, 04:18:18 AM
Yeah that's a harder one, not sure how you can switch it without the original pedal (or a clone thereof), MJMP may be able to help, I hadn't heard of "pulse" switching until he mentioned it.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 08, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
Yeah he did send the schematics and theres a lot more to it than some momentary switches and resistors.
I comb ebay,reverb,music go around and craigslist everyday went to six pawn shops yesterday after work something will turn up eventually.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 09, 2018, 05:14:24 AM
Hey MJMP, how much (and hard) would it be to build a pitchtraq switch ? (I know you "can" do it  :thumb-up: )
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on March 09, 2018, 03:22:30 PM
Depends on how many, making a pcb for one is expensive but the price drops for 5 pcb's etc...
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 09, 2018, 03:47:12 PM
I received a behringer  pro 1602 1 u today I got on ebay it says 1 send so I will try this one and see how it pans out no punt intended ;D.
However on my way home I stopped in a pawn shop and found a Yamaha mv802 2 u for 20 dollars and I think it has 2 or 3 sends I was unable to find the am802 as rnolan has in his live rig for similar situations.
We shall see I may not be able to test right away too many honey doos over the weekend but will let you all know Thanks.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 09, 2018, 07:44:30 PM
The 1602 is fine but only has 1 send, the Yamaha mv802 would be better as it had 2 sends (but 2 RU).  Also Yamaha desks typically sound very good. For $20 (if it works) it's an absolute bargain.  You could also combine the 2 of them (but chew 3 RU in your rack).  E.g. plug MP1 and MP2 into 1602, use pitchtraq on send (so both units can use it), plug 1602 stereo out into mv802 and use it's 2 sends for stereo reverb unit
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 10, 2018, 01:57:24 PM
That is a thought I bought a anvil full shock flight 14 ru case this morning for 30 so when I get a chance I'm gonna hook it all up.
also a DS-4 showed up on ebay this morning wants 80 plus shipping. gonna see if I can work a deal seems were getting close thanks again for all the great ideas from everyone.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 11, 2018, 04:37:46 AM
Hey bunkyloo, happy to help  :wave: , look forward to some feedback (and some pics  :thumb-up: )
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 18, 2018, 03:05:06 PM
so here  is what I did that Yamaha mv802 works good a little crunchy I cleaned the pots last night well see running mp1 and mp2 separately of course and I bought a digitizer that came with a DS-4 question is what unit is better digitizer  or s1000 for delay regen on pitchtrack I haven't gotten it yet. Thanks in advance
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 19, 2018, 02:19:02 AM
Cool, the mv802 looked a great score, you can run the MP1 and MP2 together, you need to split the guitar input either with a Y lead or an A/B A+B switch or any pedal with a stereo out to get signal into both units (if you wanted to  >:D ).  I've not used a Digitizer or s1000 so I'll leave that for others to comment.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on March 19, 2018, 08:28:41 AM
I have a both a 2 S1000's and 2 Digitizers, the digitizer is better sounding and when used in stereo it's AMAZING!!! It seems the delayed sounds are coming from all over the place. It's the best delay I have. It also give great chorus sounds !!!
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 21, 2018, 08:06:12 AM
Thanks for the  input MJMP when I get it I will compare side by side.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on March 23, 2018, 05:15:01 PM
I'm sure this is not the place but I want to thank everyone who has helped me out on my rig.So since this is still introduce yourself i do have a couple questions how do I add an avatar and also how do i earn up in in ranks I am just not sure how it all works It seems i cant find anything on my  account page. Thanks in advance . Steve in souther california.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on March 23, 2018, 07:59:23 PM
Hey Steve, always happy to help, that's what we are here for  :thumb-up: .
From the Home page, select Profile > Forum Profile (Modify Profile menu on the left). Yo can load an avatar there.  What you put in the Signature field will appear at the bottom of your posts, most of us list some of our gear so others know what we have. From the same menu, Look and Layout, Account Settings, Notifications etc are where you set various preferences.  In the Look and Layout Time Format field I suggest you choose (stay with) forum default and enter this string %a %d%b %Y %I:%M %p There's a post about this in Discussions.  You can click on question mark (?) buttons in the various screens to get some help. I also select " Show most recent posts at the top" so new post to topics are on top so you don't have to scroll down to see them, makes more difference when the thread get long.
To climb the ranks - is about the number of posts you make.  I don't think any of us take much notice of the rankings.
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: Kim on March 23, 2018, 08:32:38 PM
I'm sure this is not the place but I want to thank everyone who has helped me out on my rig.So since this is still introduce yourself i do have a couple questions how do I add an avatar and also how do i earn up in in ranks I am just not sure how it all works It seems i cant find anything on my  account page. Thanks in advance . Steve in souther california.

It's not too hard to get set up there, a little poking around and you can get the hang of it quick enough.  But, if it isn't working for you then we (Admins) can get it set up for you how you want it.   :wave: 

The Rank thing (as Richard mentioned) really isn't anything more than just for some fun.    But if you get put on Double Secret Probation then worry.   ;)
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: bunkyloo on April 17, 2018, 05:59:16 PM
Thanks for all the help on this stuff so now I think in I'm on the right track but I am now trying some things with the Yamaha mv802 first of all misplaced I'm sure where should I ask routing questions. I think this is likey a Richard question since he runs mixers in his rack witch I never thought of lol.lets do a new thread lol but where steve
Title: Re: new member trying to fix up mp-1 and started mp-2
Post by: rnolan on April 19, 2018, 02:47:54 AM
Hey Steve, Probably in Discussions or All Preamp Tech tips & support  :dunno: or we could add a new board for Routing and Patching if people want it?  Routing and patching tend to come up as a result of other things like "Got a new thingy" so I spose much of that commentary is spread around various boards as it's integral to everything.

OK Routing & Patching board added under Let's Get Technical (http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=67.0), lets see how it goes, Steve, you can have the first post  :thumb-up:
Maybe there's some posts Kim (the consolidator  :wave: ) thinks should move or get copied into there.