ADA Depot Too - A Forum To Support Users of ADA Amplification Gear

ADA Preamps => MP-1 Classic => Topic started by: MarshallJMP on November 16, 2016, 06:04:22 AM

Title: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 16, 2016, 06:04:22 AM
For the moment I'm using the MP-2 for cleans only but the downside of the MP-2 is that it generates to much heat in my rack.I also have a classic and I was thinking of maybe swapping the mp-2 with the classic for cleans.

So my question for all the classic/mp-2 users, which preamp has the best clean sound in your opinion?
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Griphook on November 16, 2016, 06:59:33 AM
Hey MJ,

For my use, it strongly depends on the guitars I am using.

My Eko Semiacoustic plays better with the MP1 Classic, but with my 7 String Cort, the MP2 is more brilliant and "shiny"

Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Dante on November 16, 2016, 02:34:09 PM
While I have no complaints about the clean tones in the Classic, I would have to say the MP-2 has the more transparent cleans. They cut through a mix with warmth and clarity. My Classic has that clarity, but I have to push it to get it through the mix.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 16, 2016, 04:19:42 PM
Hey MJMP,

   When I think of clean tones for a guitar, the first amp that comes to mind is Fender Twins. That is probably the most classic clean guitar tone known around the world, and the first good amplifier I ever owned.
    I can get good cleans from any of the ADA's, so now it's just a matter of taste as far as dialing it in. The MP-1 and MP-2 both have great clean tones with a lot of warmth on tap. The Classic has great clean tones, but not quite as warm as the other two, it's more of a Marshall clean IMHO. The great thing about the MP-1 and the Classic is the clean tones in there are much more dynamic so you can push the clean tones harder with humbuckers and the amp will respond more like a vintage tube amp in that respect. That's something I have always felt was a downside of the MP-2.
    One thing I've noticed about the Classic is that the levels are much more balanced between the clean and distortion tones, when I'm running it through a mixer. The other two preamps always seem to have a much stronger output on the clean tones than the distortion tones, so I have to edit the levels and try to balance them without changing the sounds.

     Harley 8)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 17, 2016, 04:15:27 AM
Hooked my classic up to try out, so anybody has some good clean settings/presets I could try out ?
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 17, 2016, 05:10:47 AM
MJMP,

    There are a lot of good cleans in the Classic already, some of my favorites are in the Brown Tube voicing. All I ever do with them is tweak the level and EQ a bit.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 17, 2016, 05:41:24 AM
Hey MJMP, given the classic was a transition to the MP2 you could try my MP2 clean patches as a start point.  But I also used PU selection to get the glassy tone with those (which is something you may want to consider trying ?).  Do you have any series/parallel or split coil switching on your guits ? I've found this helps allot getting interesting clean tones. E.g. I use the neck Ultrasonic PU switched series combined with middle Ultrasonic switched parallel (they are both dual coil PUs) and the middle PU as low (as far from the strings) as it can be which gives a great glassy clean tone.  It needs a bit of compression (see my MP2 clean patch) and careful, it bights big time when you whack it hard.  If you liked the clean tone in the Anchors Away sound clip, that's how I got it (add mild delay/reverb). No idea how this will go with the classic but the fundamentals are sound and make sense. I've found using high gain humbuckers (which we all know and love) to make clean patches is hard (i.e. not what they were designed to do), you need to tame/change the PUs a bit to suit (well that's what has worked for me  :wave: ).  Also having your neck PU out of phase with the bridge gives good results (this is how my JPLP is wired), so I use the bridge PU switched parallel combined with the neck 59 PAF (which is series and out of phase with bridge PU), works well, lots of character (and part of how to get a Led Zep tone).  A point here though, I don't run anything in front of my ADA preamps, I want them to get pure analog guitar.  Hey each to their own here, but I don't want any stomp box device or otherwise changing (screwing with) the input signal (wah pedals excluded as it's the best place for them in the gain chain).  But hey, that's how I approach it, whatever get your tone and floats you boat, all power to you. But I spose you could say changing PU coil switching and combinations is screwing with the signal, I proffer this is a little different to feeding it through a bunch of eeek transistors (never/not nice for audio), A/D D/A stages (mostly crap), generally bad gain structure (sorry for the rant, I'm not a fan of stomp boxes (obviously  ::) ))
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 17, 2016, 05:59:28 AM
Richard,


    While the PC boards in the Classic and the MP-2 resemble each other, that's where the similarity ends. The Classic doesn't sound like the MP-2 and it doesn't respond like it. The Classic is more toned down, so hitting it with high output pickups will drive it harder, but it really sweetens up when you roll off the volume knob on the guitar.
   Remember, at the time I was shopping for a new preamp back then, I had narrowed the choices down to the Classic and the Groove Tubes Trio. The Trio was an all tube 3 channel preamp, and the Classic won out. Sometimes I kind of wished I had bought both, but I'm not unhappy with my choice. The classic just had more great tones built in to it.

      Harley 8)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 17, 2016, 06:52:38 AM
Hey Harley, interesting point re rolling down guitar pots.  It's only been in more recent times I've done that with my MP2, started when I got the JPLP.  Also coincided with me going to a warm vintage voice (MP2 voice 5) which I'd never used before (prior to that I used high gain voice 9 or 10).  It's a perfect voice for rolling and responds very well particularly with 57 and 59 Gibson PAFs.  I ran the vols at 2.5 to 3 and it's just milky and creamy mmmm.  Prior to this I was a vol = max, tone = max and MP2 high gain and 99% bridge PU.  I hardly ever use the bridge PU these days.

Actually, from what you are saying re GT 3 tube and classic, what would be nice in a MP3 is (say) 4tubes, dial up anything you like i.e. profile any preamp but with the real thing  >:D .

And hey if anyone has a spare classic, I'd like to acquire it.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 17, 2016, 08:21:28 AM
Hey Richard,
    The Trio was actually three preamps in one chassis. The preamps were named "Clean, Mean, and Scream"
 Clean was the Fender Blackface Twin preamp, Mean was a Fender Tweed Preamp, and Mean was the early Mesa preamp.
   I thought that was kind of limiting, so I opted for the Classic since the dynamic response was the same as the Trio, but it works like that on all the Classic voices.

   Yes, rolling back the guitar volume in the Classic I've been able to just go through whole songs on a single preset. I can do that on the MP-1 as well in certain presets, but not all. This is why I've always raved about the Classic being more like a vintage amp rather than a MIDI programmable preamp. Coupled with a good quality tube poweramp, you'd probably never be able to tell it was a rack system from a killer sounding vintage amp. (Of course this would depend on the choice of poweramp too).
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Dante on November 17, 2016, 11:08:40 AM
The great thing about the MP-1 and the Classic is the clean tones in there are much more dynamic so you can push the clean tones harder with humbuckers and the amp will respond more like a vintage tube amp in that respect. That's something I have always felt was a downside of the MP-2.
:thumb-up: +1


MJMP: Here are some patches (http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=31.0)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 17, 2016, 01:15:07 PM
@Dante,they seems to be all dirty patches? Got any cleans to share?

@R, I think the classic came after the MP-2? It was supposed to be a hybrid of the MP-1 and the MP-2 but with a lot less features. As for PU's most of my guitars have EMG 81's which is great for distortion, but not so good for cleans.I do have my MSG flying V and a jackson kelly that have a split coil option with Duncans and what you say is absolutely true,if I use both PU's with the split engaged the clean are a lot better then the humbucker sound, problem is it takes to much switching around.

@Harley, well if you compare the pcb's of the classic and MP-2 is see a fully stuffed pcb with the MP-2 and classic has a lot less parts.Now I did notice that the classic sounds more open even on cleans, I always have the feeling with the MP-2 it sounds compressed, not very dynamic.

I have always struggled to get a great clean sound, so I wanted to work on it a bit to get it better. I also found some EQ settings to mimic the sound of a single coil with a humbucker, must try that out to.

I really love the clean sound on this song of Great White,I would be a very happy man if could get close to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKy3hgGS-6w&list=RDGMEM_v2KDBP3d4f8uT-ilrs8fQVMzKy3hgGS-6w
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 17, 2016, 03:55:32 PM
MJMP,
   That is correct, the Classic came after the MP-2, and was intended to be an upgraded version of the MP-1 with a stereo effects loop, built-in noise reduction, and dedicated recording outputs. It was never intended to be anything close to the MP-2 since that was very unpopular with guitar players, it was too program intensive.
    I never used EMG active pickups, so I'm not familiar with them. They don't clean up? Have you ever tried getting a good clean tone just plugging into your Marshall? If so, what happens?
   I used to play that song. Mark Kendall was playing through Randall amps back then. I nailed that tone with my G-K when I was playing it, (didn't have the MP-1 yet). I will get down to my studio this weekend and try to work that tone out on my Classic this weekend, but I don't have any humbuckers that hit the amp as hard as those EMG's. May I suggest lowering the OD1 and adjusting the OD2 to try to clean it up a bit? When I played that song, I used my Jem guitars and those had DiMarzio Pro 151 PAF's in them, so the Flying V might be your best bet.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2016, 04:03:59 PM
An idea that seems to help me (EMG user) with Clean stuff......(despite the EMG directions telling you to adjust those pups as close to the strings as you can), I have mine backed way down farther away from the strings.  They seem to open up a bit more and then they won't drive so much either.

Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 17, 2016, 04:50:04 PM
An idea that seems to help me (EMG user) with Clean stuff......(despite the EMG directions telling you to adjust those pups as close to the strings as you can), I have mine backed way down farther away from the strings.  They seem to open up a bit more and then they won't drive so much either.

    That's helpful :thumb-up: I always adjust my pickup height to suit my ears no matter what pickups I'm using.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 18, 2016, 04:33:34 AM
I don't think the drive is the problem, I can get it clean without any problems, it's the tone.EMG's have quite a mid sound to them which is great for high gain stuff but not so good for cleans.Passive PU's are better for clean sounds.

And yes I can get quite a good clean tone when I plug into my Marshall 1959 and use the bright channel, even with the EMG's.Also must say that the SD TB-4 has about the same output as an EMG 81 (maybe a bit less) but it sounds different.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 18, 2016, 05:04:52 AM
Wow, I didn't know that about EMG, so they are really heavy on the midrange?

   Maybe cutting the mids and presence on the Classic might help?
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 18, 2016, 05:35:44 AM
Yes it does help cutting the mids and I feel I need to boost the presence.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Harley Hexxe on November 18, 2016, 07:20:58 AM
Oh...so those pickups are heavy in the low midrange then. I'm glad I never got into them. I like a more balanced tone.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 18, 2016, 07:43:54 AM
Hey MJMP, this is where going to a parallel PU switching can help, you may not need to add as much presence boost, but hey dial it in if it works/needs it.  I've also stared to lower PU height (you don't need much to make a difference), and you can use a vol pedal (IIRC you do ?) before the preamp to back off the input if you don't want to roll vols down.  So on JPLP for example, I get great tones with PUs on 2.5 to 3 /10. And you have all the voices between 1 and 5 to play with, maybe try voices 2, 3 & 4 with PUs backed off (allot).  I started playing around with one of my MP2s to get good sounds for my Epiphone SG the other day. It has 57 gibson re-issues in it (so not super high gain PUs but great sound/character) and was kind of on a similar journey to what you are wanting I think.  I got some tones I didn't mind and I started looking into the other MP2 voices which I've never used (basically I've only used 1, 5 and 9 or 10), also it's always been with the Anderson and Ultrasonic PUs, time for new blood.  If I come up with anything decent I'll let you know (early days but good results so far).

Wow, interesting re the Classic, I thought it was a transition to the MP2 but it makes sense that it was like MP1 with some MP2 features.  And also that some found the MP2 too complex or didn't like it.  I must say I've never spent the time dialing in tones in the MP2 which I did with the MP1. I just grabbed Big Fat Crunch or whatever, tweaked it a little and went for it (I had gigs to do..).  I solved the clean sound by PU switching/combination.

Now MJMP I'm assuming you want to be able a get a good clean sound from your EMG guitars and then switch back to high gain sounds ?. The EMGs should be able to cope, they started life as great clean PUs (not that I've kept up with their development), and rolling back volume pots is more stuff to do in a quick transition (hence vol pedal suggestion).  Split col PU switching is another option, again it's backing off the input but also changing the PU impedance (though as EMGs are active ???). By and large great clean sounds tend to be single coil PUs, humbuckers switched in series tend to muddy the waters but depends on the tone you want.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 18, 2016, 08:07:28 AM
I want to do as little as possible switching or volume rolling.My goal is to switch from clean to distortion with one switch, so no switching between PU's, volume pots, coil tapping etc. I know you will have better results this way but for live or at rehearsal I just don't have the time to do all this stuff. So in the end I'm stuck with a bridge PU and one switch on the midi pedal. For distortion this is no problem, but for clean it is.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 18, 2016, 08:37:47 AM
Yeah I figured this is where you were coming from... Maybe go MB1 then, it will tame your bridge humbucker and you can program the midi changes to do just what you need.  If I come up with an MP2 patch which can help I'll let you know but fastest way there IMHO is MB1  :thumb-up: moreover it's set up to take active PUs (on some patches) and has very versatile eq.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 18, 2016, 08:39:42 AM
It's worth a try I guess :thumb-up:
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: Dante on November 22, 2016, 07:51:29 AM
The great thing about the MP-1 and the Classic is the clean tones in there are much more dynamic so you can push the clean tones harder with humbuckers and the amp will respond more like a vintage tube amp in that respect. That's something I have always felt was a downside of the MP-2.
:thumb-up: +1


MJMP: Here are some patches (http://adadepot.com/index.php?board=31.0)

Hmmmm...I just added some clean patches to that. They are not very complicated ;)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 22, 2016, 08:09:10 AM
Well just tested my 2 new MP1s, both had beautiful cleans (patch 6) using Epiphone SG with Gibson 57 re-issues in it.  I liked the cleans more than the MP2.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: van Sinn on November 22, 2016, 08:12:15 AM
You know.. EMG makes several different active pups with each their own sound scape..

Likely not comparable to your setup, MJ, but my Schecter Riot 8 EMG 808 neck pup sounds quite nice on the MP-2 cleans; the bridge 808 sounds less good.

And then again, not because they're actives per-se, but most EMG's I've heard really doesn't really have their own distinctive sound, the exception being the ones that sat on oldschool ESP axes, producing what I'd call the ESP/EMG midrange snarl tone, like it can be heard with Timmu's sound on the Nightwish farewell album "End of an Era".

(fun thing, this active stuff.. just a low impedance pup with a build-in opamp..)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 22, 2016, 10:06:15 AM
Hey Van what settings did you use on the MP-2 clean?
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 22, 2016, 10:56:35 AM
Hey MJMP, do you have (I expect you do) have a stock MP1 in your collection ? Seriously, give patch 6 a go. I was impressed, then I turned on the chorus mmm great with humbuckers in the middle position (neck + bridge), I think it's a SS sound ? have to check but I really liked it.  Although I am running the B200s through the Messa cabs with tweeter crossed over at 4 k (which maybe adding some sparkle that I maybe wouldn't get into straight 12 cabs)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: van Sinn on November 22, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Another option could be to replace your Lexicon MP-something with an MPX G2, which has the same effects in it, plus a really well working digital clean, complete with tone controls and dynamics control, to make it react nicely to playing style.
Add either the Red or Blue compressor and a couple effects, and it'll be just lovely.
(pity they didn't put just a single transformer-loaded tube in there ;) )
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 22, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Mmm not fond of the MP-1 cleans.And I'm not going to buy more gear, I already have enough  ;D
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 22, 2016, 09:10:44 PM
Hey MJMP, I don't recall being that plussed with the MP1 cleans either so I got a nice surprise during testing of these new units.
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: van Sinn on November 23, 2016, 02:33:46 AM
But then use an MB-1 for cleans.
- will also work well with the downtuned black metal 8/9-stringer you do not yet have.. :headbanger:
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 23, 2016, 03:47:39 AM
Well I thought about the MB-1 but on the other hand ,let's say my mp-1 goes down at a gig I would like to have a backup so I'm stuck with a MP-x
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: rnolan on November 23, 2016, 10:00:14 PM
Well best we help you come up with some nice MP2 clean patches then  :thumb-up:   Do you have any coil switching options on your guitars ? While it's not impossible, I've found it harder to get good cleans from straight series humbuckers. Putting the coils in parallel helps but with EMGs I don't know, they are already low impedance aren't they ?
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: van Sinn on November 24, 2016, 02:58:38 AM
You know.. EMG makes several different active pups with each their own sound scape..

Did you notice the new EMG Retro Active Pickups?
Just saw this thread about them: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=317160 (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=317160)
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: van Sinn on November 24, 2016, 04:52:40 AM
Hey Van what settings did you use on the MP-2 clean?

Oh! I missed this post.. just about redoing my MP-2 preset list from the old Depot..
Title: Re: cleans MP-1 classic vs MP-2
Post by: MarshallJMP on November 24, 2016, 09:24:20 AM
Thanks, will check them out. :thumb-up: