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Let's Get Technical => Schematics & Modifications (mods) => Topic started by: Kim on May 27, 2016, 09:21:03 PM

Title: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Kim on May 27, 2016, 09:21:03 PM
Here are the notes I had compiled for these mods.  I gathered this info from a few sources, namely the creators of the mods and from a bit of testing of my own.

MP-1 MOD DESCRIPTIONS       1-2-04


MOD 1       (created by Mark Howell)

This mod gives the MP-1 a more traditional Marshall sound much like the JCM 800.  It basically turns the 4th gain stage into a cathode follower, which is a key concept of that "Marshall crunch" that most rock guitarists have preferred since the inception of the JCM 800.  Paired up with a good tube power amp, you would be hard pressed to hear the difference between the JCM 800 and this ADA equilivant. Seven MP-1 components are removed on the tube board (one of which is replaced),  3 traces are "jumped", and one more trace is cut. This mod is easily reversible, provided that the stock components and traces aren't damaged during removal (the cut trace will need to be "re-jumped" if reversing this modification).

Pros:
Great "classic rock" tone.
The MP-1's Clean Tube voicing will be much cleaner.
Much cheaper than buying the traditional JCM 800!

Cons:
Not enough gain to support the "metal" players.
MP-1 still has the fair amount of noise it already has in stock form.
_______________________________________________________________

MOD 2      (created by Mark Howell)

This mod adds diodes to the gain structure to create a "fuzzier" tone.   It should be pointed out that this idea gives a somewhat "sterile" sound to the MP-1, very much like adding a solid-state Overdrive pedal in front of your traditional tube amp.  It should be also pointed out that while the schematics for this mod "look good on paper" it may or may not be of any real benefit to most MP-1 users, since this mod makes the gain very "buzzy" and "harsh" and could be reminiscent of the guitar sound usually associated with "industrial" genres of music.

Pros:
Great sound for "industrial" players.

Cons:
Loses the "pureness" qualities of a tube preamp.
_______________________________________________________________

MOD 3        (created by Mark Howell)

This Mod brings a "rectified" quality to the tone signature of the MP-1, which is usually known for it's "hot-rodded Marshall" like characteristics.  The Tube Distortion voicing has a smoother, creamier overdrive.  Those looking to achieve a "Mesa/Boogie" or a "Soldano" type of a medium-level overdrive will find it here.  High-gain users will notice the lack of "cutting power"  when playing single-note leads. Also easily reversible.

Pros:
Brings the "rectifier" tone closer to MP-1 users, for those who desire that tone.
Makes the MP-1 much quieter, and eliminates most of the extranneous noise.
Individual notes in chords are easily heard.

Cons:
Brings the "rectifier" tone closer to MP-1 users (for those who do NOT desire that tone).
Single notes lose the "bite" that the stock MP-1 was known for.
_______________________________________________________________

MOD 3.1             (created by Mark Howell)

This is the first "Modded-Mod" for the MP-1.  It tries to bring back the attributes lost in the original MOD 3.    This mod shares most all of the features with the previous MOD 3, and is easy to do provided that the MOD 3 was already in place.
The gain level is brought up a bit over the previous version, and the single notes have more of the "bite" that was lost before.

Pros:
Brings the "rectifier" tone closer to MP-1 users, for those who desire that tone.
Makes the MP-1 much quieter, and eliminates most of the extranneous noise.
Individual notes in chords are easily heard.
Single notes have more "bite" than MOD 3

Cons:
Brings the "rectifier" tone closer to MP-1 users (for those who do NOT desire that tone).
_______________________________________________________________

MOD 3.666          (created by Hairston Bagg and Marshalljmp)

This mod is more extensive to perform, as it addresses some EQ issues on the motherboard, as well as modifications to the tube board.  The "Mesa" tone still shines through with this mod, and the available gain is VERY high (much higher than any Mesa equilivant). The Bass and Mid EQ points have the ability to be "customized" to each individual user through the creative use of adjustable internally located trimpots.
The mids can now be viciously scooped out if desired, and the bass frequency point can also be altered and "tuned" to the particular speaker cab being used.  This results in a very tight sounding bass "thump" instead of sounding "flubby". Combine this tight bass with the mids scooped out severely,  this mod will give the MP-1 a truly "evil" sound;  hence the name "MOD 3.666".  The Clean Tube voicing has more gain available, and thus produces a nice crunchy overdrive as well. 

Pros:
Tons and tons of gain.
Customizable EQ points for the Mids and Bass.
Clean Tube voicing gets very "crunchy".

Cons:
More gain equals more noise. You will need a gate for high gain mayhem.
The adjustable trimpots are designed for a "set and forget" situation.
Clean Tube voicing is even harder to achieve a truly "clean" tone.
_______________________________________________________________

MOD 4          (created by Hairston Bagg and Marshalljmp)

This mod retains the "Marshall" sound, but brings it to the "heavily modified Marshall" sound.  Those looking for those Zakk Wylde, George Lynch, and pre-Peavey-endorsed Eddie Van Halen tones should find all that here in this mod. Screaming leads, harmonics galore, and tight rythym sounds. This mod has not been completely released to the Do-it-Yourselfers as of this writing, but is currently available from Hairston as a service.
_______________________________________________________________

3TM             (created by Hairston Bagg and Marshalljmp)

This mod is considered VERY extensive, only because it requires a completely new redesigned tube board to allow 3 preamp tubes to be installed in the MP-1 instead of the 2 tubes it was designed and manufactured with.  The original conception of this mod is credited to the great (albeit elusive) Todd Langner, with Hairston and Marshalljmp working to make this mod available to nearly everyone.  Having a third tube gives the otherwise stock MP-1 some more usuable gain, and a even more "tube sounding" quality.

Pros:
Todd Langner-designed concept.
3 preamp tubes instead of 2.
Can now realize the full potential of the MP-1.
Replaces old tube board with a brand-new redesigned board.

Cons:
Replaces entire tube board. (which really isn't a bad thing!)
_______________________________________________________________
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: El Chiguete on May 29, 2016, 11:06:59 AM
GREAT mod guide to have in 1 place the description of all those modes in comparison!
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: rabidgerry on June 21, 2016, 02:02:57 AM
What is heavier 3tm or MOD 3.666?  Just curious, have no intention of getting 3.666
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Kim on June 21, 2016, 03:00:36 AM
What is heavier 3tm or MOD 3.666?  Just curious, have no intention of getting 3.666

I suppose it depends on what you would define as "heavier".   
EQ-wise, the MOD3.666 has the ability to scoop Mids a bit more than than usual and allows the user to "tune" it's Bass control frequency to whichever cab is being used. 
Gain-wise they both have more Gain than you might need.  An example of that might be that when I had the 3TM, I never even used the Tube Dist voicing; everything I needed to be "heavy" was handled right in the Tube Clean voicing.

Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: jgd on September 13, 2016, 08:07:56 AM
Does the 3TM only add gain?
Because what I would consider an improvement on my current MP 1, would be more tightness in the bass.
More of this cold, dead, metal-on-metal palmmute tightness.

(if that makes any sense...)



Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 13, 2016, 04:13:41 PM
Hi jgd,

    The 3TM has LOADS of gain. The only way to get any clean sounds from it is with the SS voicing.
    I totally get what you mean by the palm-mute tightness, and it is possible with the 3TM to get close to the more modern low end 'chunk,' but you have to spend some time with the EQ and the OD1 and OD2 to get the right balance.

      Harley 8)
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: jgd on September 14, 2016, 12:54:20 AM
Ok, thanks.
Well, I actually don't need LOADS of gain.
I think the stock MP 1 had more than enough gain.
I never get these "more gain kinda mods" anyhow.
I mean, come who puts the gain on 10 anyhow.
I currently have OD1 on something like 4.4/4.6 and OD2 on 5.
That, with EMG's, and the original tubes, is enough gain for me.
I found out that keepin' OD1 somewhere around 4, also adds tightness in the bass.

I really bought it for a Metallica-ish tone. (Master, Justice, Black era).
And that tone doesn't have that much gain anyhow, you know, just enough.
Keepin'the character of the guitar clear and open.

So, thanks.
If the 3TM bring a bit more tightness, thats awesome.
Im gonna try one out somewehere next week, at MarshallJMP's place.
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: rnolan on September 14, 2016, 05:27:57 AM
You can change the bass centre frequency to be a bit lower (which sounds like it may help get the tone you want), there's some posts elsewhere hear about that but if you are going to MJMPs, take your MP1 with you and ask him about it.  Be good to get him to check it out for you as well...
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 14, 2016, 07:55:09 AM
Hey jgd,

    I agree with Richard, if you are going over to MJMP's place, then HE is the one who can tell you exactly the state of your MP-1. There is no one better for that :thumb-up:

    As for the more gain mods, I guess it's a matter of taste. I also believe there is plenty of gain in a stock MP-1, but I have a 3TM also. So the way I'm using that is with my MP-1 in the same rack, and if I'm in a song that has a dirty rhythm part and want to go to a solo over that and have the solo cut through the mix, I use the 3TM. It's similar to my two smaller racks which have a Classic in one, and MP-2 in the other.
   Honestly, I could get by with the MP-2 instead of the 3TM for super high gain. It does everything from vintage gain to modern, and all points in between.

     Harley 8)
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: jgd on September 14, 2016, 11:14:48 AM
What are the effects tone-wise?
So besides apparantly buckets of gain?
Is it also an improvement tone-wise?
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 14, 2016, 02:19:33 PM
Tone wise you get a tighter sound,the original mp-1 tends to get muddy and noisy when you use higher gain settings (OD's above6.0),the 3TM won't. Also although the 3TM has more gain it's less noisy.

Like Harley says the tube clean is gone but it's turned into a brown channel,sounds a bit fatter then the tube distortion and has a bit less gain.I usually use it with OD1 set fairly low, between 2.0 and 3.0 and OD2 between 5.0 and 7.0.This will give sounds from ACDC to some hair metal sounds (boosted marshall).

But I can show you all that when you come over.  >:D
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 14, 2016, 03:36:21 PM
Like Harley says the tube clean is gone but it's turned into a brown channel,sounds a bit fatter then the tube distortion and has a bit less gain.I usually use it with OD1 set fairly low, between 2.0 and 3.0 and OD2 between 5.0 and 7.0.This will give sounds from ACDC to some hair metal sounds (boosted marshall).

   Brown channel?  Compared to the Classic, and the MP-2, the Brown Tube voicings in those will go clean, and remain fairly clean even when you max out the OD1 and OD2. Kind of like a dirty rhythm tone, but smoother. The 3TM has a lot more distortion than that in the former Clean tube voicing, and the Distortion voicing is downright obnoxious. A lot more hair on both of them.

    Maybe Matt set them too high when he worked on it? :dunno:

      Harley 8)
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Dante on September 14, 2016, 09:06:11 PM
I don't know anything about a 3TM, but I will say that the Brown channel in the Classic is NOT the brown channel in the MP-2 (FYI).

So MJMP...which brown channel sound were you referring to?
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: jgd on September 15, 2016, 03:47:27 AM
But I can show you all that when you come over.  >:D

YES!  :thumb-up:
Im actually very much looking forward to that!
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 15, 2016, 04:41:29 AM
I don't know anything about a 3TM, but I will say that the Brown channel in the Classic is NOT the brown channel in the MP-2 (FYI).

So MJMP...which brown channel sound were you referring to?

    I know that's right Dante, and I'm sure MJMP does too since he has all the above :lol:  I can also say the 3TM doesn't sound like either of those. At least, mine doesn't.
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Dante on September 15, 2016, 08:46:04 AM
I know you are aware of that Harley, and MJMP knows that too. I figured the 3TM was probably a whole 'nuther thing too. Just wanted to point that out so others don't think they're getting the same Brown sound on each unit. They should just refer to it as "a bit less gain" but I guess that wouldn't fit in the LED - haha

 O0
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 15, 2016, 10:16:43 AM
Well it also depends what you understand under "brown sound" I guess.  :lol:

For me it's a marshall pushed to it's limits. And gain wise the classic's brown channel doesn't do the trick, I always found the gain or distortion level compared to the mp-1 quite low.For me it's more a bluesy channel.

The one in the mp-2 is better but get's too muddy at higher gain settings.

I just like tight high gain settings, no mud for me  ;D
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Dante on September 15, 2016, 12:27:59 PM
Maybe the Blues channel would've been a better name for it. You know they were riding on the coattails of EVH to call it a brown sound in the first place. Total marketing ploy

I use my Brown channel a LOT in the Classic. I have it friggin cranked, I'll admit. It breathes fire that way  >:D  The distortion channel doesn't get as much use, mostly for soooooper high gain stuff. My metal patch is usually the Brown sound (depends on the guitar) and some solos are Brown.

Solo Patch (like I said, it's pretty cranked)
OD1=9.5
OD2=9.5
Master = 7.0

I'm getting off topic with this, may have to move some of this thread to MP-1 Classic
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 15, 2016, 05:04:52 PM
Dante,

    My point was that the 3TM I have, seems to be pretty saturated with distortion in the former Clean distortion settings. Possibly, Trullmon set the trim pots too high in that one after he repaired it, or didn't back them off.
    According to Trullmon, whoever tried to install the 3TM mod, didn't do a very good job, and messed it up a bit. Plus, there were a boat load of caps that had to be replaced. If you guys remember from the old Forum before it went down, I wasn't impressed with the output of the 3TM at the time because it was very lame sounding, so I had checked the trim pots in there and they were dimed out. I don't know if he ever backed those off.
    That 3TM is a perfect example of the risks of buying from an unknown source on evil-bay.

     Harley 8)
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: rnolan on September 16, 2016, 01:44:18 AM
Mmm a bit less gain, a bit more gain, not much gain, sh^t loads of gain, good naming convention for MP2 patches  :thumb-up: or maybe R, Rr, Rrr, Rrrrrrrr and RSsss LoL
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 16, 2016, 05:47:16 AM
Well here's sometimes I put on YT, just some screwing around with sounds. First up is the tube distortion and after 1:50 it's the clean tube. Not my best performance so...  :facepalm: it's all about the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azwU5rrrlVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azwU5rrrlVg)
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: rnolan on September 16, 2016, 08:14:48 AM
Cool MJMP, sounds great  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 16, 2016, 03:57:46 PM
That was the MP-2?
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 17, 2016, 10:52:46 AM
No Harley that was a MP1 3TM
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 17, 2016, 11:01:20 AM
OK, because I saw in the video, the MP-2 was lighting up too
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 17, 2016, 11:06:32 AM
Yeah I feed my guitar input to both the MP-1 and MP-2 at the same time and I switch the outs with the rocktron patchmate.
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 17, 2016, 11:14:03 AM
Ahhh, a loop switcher, something like my GCX's. So how do you split the inputs to all of them?
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 17, 2016, 11:23:57 AM
Well I just split the signal that's coming out of the decimator first channel and go straight to both the input of the MP-1 and MP-2, I don't route the inputs through the rocktron, just the outputs.
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: Harley Hexxe on September 17, 2016, 11:28:47 AM
...and those go out to the stacks?

     What about the effects, are those in the preamp effects loops, or parallel?
Title: Re: MP-1 Tone Signature Mod descriptions
Post by: MarshallJMP on September 17, 2016, 11:44:04 AM
All my effects 'except the wah,decimator and G force are in de loops of the patchmate. The stereo out of the patchmate goes to the G force (so that's always in the chain) and from the G force it goes out in stereo to the heads.I use the G force this way because I use it for master volume and tuner mute (midi).As for effect I use the G force mostly for reverb only.