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Let's Get Technical => All Things Tube => Tubes (preamp/Input/Buffer) => Topic started by: DesmoBob on July 07, 2015, 03:30:24 PM

Title: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: DesmoBob on July 07, 2015, 03:30:24 PM
New tubes:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/DesmoBob/Guitar%20Rack/12AX7%20tubes.jpg)
 :whoohoo!:

JJ ECC83S (Ruby) & Mullard ECC83 long plate reissues. The OE tubes in the background are just for photographic efffect.

Currently in the MP-1 are Groove tubes (about 20 years old). After about 45 minutes of play, the total output of the preamp appears to drop by about 20%. It just gets more quiet overall, and I have to increase the output volume of the MP-1. Is this a sign of dying tubes? But wouldn't dying tubes be more quiet as soon as I turn it on, not just after a period of time after being warmed up?

Questions about tube rolling. Can I swap out tubes while they're still warm? Or do I wait until they're stone cold? I don't want to damage anything. But at the same time, I don't want to wait unnecessarily long because I have multiple combinations to try out.

edit:
More questions--the new tubes have marker pen numbers written on them, I assume from testing.  Is it okay to leave these on, or should I clean them off?  Also, the JJs have an "HG" sticker on them (high gain). Should this be removed?
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: rnolan on July 07, 2015, 10:12:12 PM
Hey DB, nice array of tubes  :thumb-up: , it does seem a bit strange that the old tubes are ok for 45 mins then you loose level.  The easy test is put in a new pair, if the same thing happens, something else is degrading after heat/time.
I probably wouldn't worry about the pen markings (though you could rub it off, probably with alcohol or metho). I'd take off the sticker though, it would probably be ok but to be sure...

Rolling the tubes while their warm is ok to do (don't burn yourself obviously). I remember posting that I clean off the slight oil residue left from your finger prints (this comes from changing light filaments in PAR 64s etc but they run way hotter than tubes and the finger prints can cause them to fail (creates a hot spot)).  IIRC MJMP advised back then that it wasn't necessary to be that pedantic with tubes.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on July 08, 2015, 11:47:59 AM
No need to clean then,you can leave the sticker on it (BTW HG means High Grade).

And yes tubes can loose gain after they are warmed up,one of my tubes did this in my 3TM,after about 35 min of playing the gain would drop slightly and progressive.Replaced them ,now no more problems.Tubes are still mechanical things and they can last 20 years or 2 seconds.Now the quality of current production is nowhere as good as in the old days.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: DesmoBob on July 09, 2015, 05:31:47 PM
Thanks for the tips. I think I'll wear socks on my hands.

No need to clean then,you can leave the sticker on it (BTW HG means High Grade).
Oh haha even better. I thought HG meant high gain because I requested it.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on July 09, 2015, 10:30:46 PM
My guess those JJ's are tested by Ruby?Usually they put HG stickers on them.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Rawk777 on January 18, 2017, 10:36:43 AM
Just to be sure... it's ok to swap tubes while the unit is on?
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: van Sinn on January 18, 2017, 10:49:56 AM
Just to be sure... it's ok to swap tubes while the unit is on?

No!
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 18, 2017, 01:35:45 PM
Just to be sure... it's ok to swap tubes while the unit is on?

Well...if you want to do a big damage and/or harm yourself, yes...  :waving-banana-smiley-emoticon
Otherwise, no.  :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 18, 2017, 02:23:17 PM
No not really.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Rawk777 on January 18, 2017, 05:10:30 PM
I did a search on different forums, and a lot of people says it's ok to hotswap preamp tubes on a tube head if the amp is on standby.

i.e. http://www.ebay.com/gds/Want-a-better-amp-Change-your-preamp-tubes-/10000000001202478/g.html

I thought the stanby of a tube head was affecting only the power tubes.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 18, 2017, 05:17:36 PM
Well...generally speaking, I would not put hands and disconnect or swap ANY component inside something connected to a socket and powered on with some internal high voltage...unless I would try to kill myself.  :crazy:  :lol:

Usually, when I need to service my amp, I power it down and disconnect main cable from wall socket...
You never know...and it's also better to wait some minutes to let capacitors discharge.

By the way, you cannot put a MP-1 in standby...
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 18, 2017, 10:40:02 PM
The standby switch switches the high voltage of all the tubes off.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 19, 2017, 01:31:22 AM
The standby switch switches the high voltage of all the tubes off.

If you have a standby switch...  :lol:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: van Sinn on January 19, 2017, 02:28:33 AM
If anyone does a tube hotswap, then please have the device hooked to amp/speaker and record what it sounds like, preferably a video posted to Youtube
 - not that I think anyone will die; it's purely cuz tis an experience I haven't tried, and I'd love to know what it might be like.. :banana-trip:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 19, 2017, 06:38:53 AM
If anyone does a tube hotswap, then please have the device hooked to amp/speaker and record what it sounds like, preferably a video posted to Youtube
 - not that I think anyone will die; it's purely cuz tis an experience I haven't tried, and I'd love to know what it might be like.. :banana-trip:

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 19, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
The standby switch switches the high voltage of all the tubes off.

If you have a standby switch...  :lol:

Oh so tru  ;D

Now will hot swapping tubes damage your mp-1, no it won't (I guess).I do it also sometimes but you need to be carefull, there are some erea's on the tubeboard that carry high voltage that can zap you pretty good.(I know).
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 19, 2017, 02:24:12 PM
The standby switch switches the high voltage of all the tubes off.

If you have a standby switch...  :lol:

Oh so tru  ;D

Now will hot swapping tubes damage your mp-1, no it won't (I guess).I do it also sometimes but you need to be carefull, there are some erea's on the tubeboard that carry high voltage that can zap you pretty good.(I know).

= DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!  :nono:

 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Rawk777 on January 19, 2017, 08:22:46 PM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 20, 2017, 02:25:13 AM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).

 :nono: :nono: :nono:

MJMP is not a common human being.
He's shielded.  :banana-upsidedown:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: rnolan on January 20, 2017, 04:15:14 AM
More likely he's very (deservedly) lucky LoL and he knows what he's doing.  Have you ever been thrown against a wall by electricity ? I have, I was probably 14 (along time ago now and I never found the fuse I was checking), seriously, don't f*ck with it, turn the unit off to change tubes. And watch out for power caps (give them time to discharge) if that's where you are playing around.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 20, 2017, 05:19:47 AM
More likely he's very (deservedly) lucky LoL and he knows what he's doing.  Have you ever been thrown against a wall by electricity ? I have, I was probably 14 (along time ago now and I never found the fuse I was checking), seriously, don't f*ck with it, turn the unit off to change tubes. And watch out for power caps (give them time to discharge) if that's where you are playing around.

Amen, bro.  :thumb-up:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 20, 2017, 10:16:57 AM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).

 :nono: :nono: :nono:

MJMP is not a common human being.
He's shielded.  :banana-upsidedown:

Whish I was  ;D  been zapped before and it will happen again, it's the nature of the beast.
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: van Sinn on January 21, 2017, 02:23:56 AM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).

 :nono: :nono: :nono:

MJMP is not a common human being.
He's shielded.  :banana-upsidedown:

Whish I was  ;D  been zapped before and it will happen again, it's the nature of the beast.

As a kid, I pissed on the electric fence - and learned to turn off the power before playing Doctor..
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: Iperfungus on January 21, 2017, 03:19:57 PM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).

 :nono: :nono: :nono:

MJMP is not a common human being.
He's shielded.  :banana-upsidedown:

Whish I was  ;D  been zapped before and it will happen again, it's the nature of the beast.

 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: Tube rolling questions & signs of dying tubes?
Post by: MarshallJMP on January 22, 2017, 02:00:01 PM
Actually, hotswapping tubes does not make any sound, but I'll shut the unit down next time :p

But even if I do, and even if I get zapped while doing it, I know I won't die (well, it seems like MarshallJMP did not die yet).

 :nono: :nono: :nono:



Not a good idea to do  ;D

MJMP is not a common human being.
He's shielded.  :banana-upsidedown:

Whish I was  ;D  been zapped before and it will happen again, it's the nature of the beast.

As a kid, I pissed on the electric fence - and learned to turn off the power before playing Doctor..